Fender Braces

longfellow2 · 05-08-2008, 12:57 AM

I made some today and am very happy with the results.

Noises behind the dash have gone away almost completly. Steering response, Turn in, breaking and over all control have all imporoved noticeably. The front end of the car feels even more planted.

I have noticed a fair amount of flexing in the rear of the chassis now, which in turn is causing a bit more over steer than I would like. But I have only 1 small improvised strut brace back there, so that will be adressed shortly.

Not beautiful to look at, but they get the job done well and they dont weigh very much, (5.5lbs each side) also didnt want to fork out 250$ for a set.

Current Suspension/Chassis mods are:
-KTS coil-overs with 8/6k springs
-Circuit sport front strut bar
-DYI temp Rear strut bar
-Fender braces

Next up is foam insulating hollow areas in the cabbin/rocker panals rear strutbar and subframe brace.

Racer_Jim · 05-08-2008, 11:14 AM

Awesome!
I'm slowly doing the same thing to my 300zx. Spot welding the chassis and frame bracing where is seems flimsy/needed.
A tip on the foam though, don't foam where you need to weld later... it is NOT fun. lol

longfellow2 · 05-08-2008, 12:14 PM

Thanks. Im focusing on Suspension/steering during the summer. Its getting a complete $2k overhaul.

senor honda · 05-09-2008, 01:10 PM

Longfellow,
I applaud your efforts in making your own parts. There are some people on here who might choose to hate and criticise you for saving $250,
instead of spending for the high dollar setup, but I am not one of those people.

Almost every week I myself, am fabricating something for someone, pretty often something that cannot be bought from an aftermarlet company.....
so bro, if you want to post up some pics, that may help out other people
and maybe provoke people's minds to find creative solutions to
car problems....-Bob

norachelhere · 05-09-2008, 03:29 PM

I wouldn't have thought that, that part of the chassis would flex that much.
The noise part I would believe, but the actual flexing part, I just don't get...

norachelhere · 05-09-2008, 03:54 PM

never mind, I thought about it some more and I see how it would improve the firmness...

senor honda · 05-09-2008, 11:15 PM

Believe it! Honda's flex.

I have a micro switch installed in my driver's side
door. When I make a sweeping right hander, the warning buzzer tells me the micro switch is opening....I suspect due to the car flexing, since it will stop buzzing once I get the car going straight again.-Bob

Oh, and by the way, folks.....the foam that is sprayed into the subframe as a stiffener, is NOT the stuff in the spray cans from Home depot or Lowes. If you are going to foam the subframe, get the foam from the dealer.

longfellow2 · 05-09-2008, 11:29 PM

Grainger sells it. Its expensive.

Ive yet to jack the car up but thats the tell tale sign of how much the front end flexes under load.

killerMikeD · 05-10-2008, 12:11 AM

so um what kinda foam are you all using? not great stuff i hope? 3m makes great automotive foam products, for reducing noise vibration and harshness, and well as some types of rigid structual foam. i can get the product numbers if anyone likes, just send me a pm.

Also im not sure if u drive that car as a daily, or if you know that while you are improving the handling and limiting the flex of the unibody structure, you are also greatly reducing the collision absorbing properties of the upper front rails, just something to think about if its a daily, or you drive around any family or friends. With those braces the energy will be directed into the passenger compartment instead of around it.

but if not driven on the street please disreguard - mike

longfellow2 · 05-10-2008, 03:22 AM

Its my only car. Those are also the only braces of that type that will be used on the car. If anything Im betting it will shear the bolts off at the doors, since thats what the back brackets are bolted to. It would take a serious head on impact to have that bracket affect anything that far back, and with that kind of impact I would be in trouble regardless. Passenger side also still has the airbag.

I might end up putting in a 6 point cage as well.

Foam is a 2 part expanding foam with a 5:1 expansion rate. Its similar to what infinity uses in their cars. Can you send me info on the 3m stuff?

killerMikeD · 05-10-2008, 02:16 PM

Well i do agree that it would take a major collision for it to affect anything that far back, but when is it that you get to decide how hard of a collision you will have? since they are that far back your right it is less likely to cause issues, the convoluted and crush zones are further towards the front on the rails, while your braces are by the long bead like zones that are actually there to make that area stronger, reguardless the braces may still affect air bag timing, but atleast you are aware of the situation, some people are not.

Anyway heres is the Foam that we use to replace the factory foam on collision damaged cehicles. It is 3M pillar foam.

This rigid foam expands to 10 times its original volume. It is really designed to flow in and fill to add strength and eliminate wind noise. This product can be used to replace OEM rigid foams. Foam time is 1 minute, work time is 5 minutes, and cure time is one hour.

- mike

3M Automix Pillar Foam 200 ml Cartridge

longfellow2 · 05-10-2008, 03:37 PM

Applied Energy Products & Sales

^Thats what I was going to use, and I know a few people that have already completed it using that and it seems to work out well.

But the 3m stuff is more expensive since I would have to use the gun. Thanks for the link though.

I usually never have passengers in my car, and if I do I make sure they wear their seatbelt. The Airbag sensor is in the bumper support so I dont think the braces will cause any problems with it.

senor honda · 05-10-2008, 05:10 PM

Longfellow,
I would say you pretty much thought it out...-Bob

I'm starting to think about foaming those braces that you made
for a little more rigidity.....lightweight.....stronger.....why not?-Bob

**Outkasted24** · 05-10-2008, 08:18 PM

Very Nice Modification

How long did it take to make?
Mild steel and Mig?

It's amazing how much flex there really is in these cars.
2 cars ago I purchased these things called "Frame Locks" for dirt cheap.
They retailed for $200 and some kid was selling them for $50 on a car forum.
I thought "what the hell, for $50 it's worth the money to see if they really do work.

All I can say was, Holy Shit what a difference !!!! There was so much play in the steering response before the locks were installed, Who knew !!!

Here's the product I'm talking about.
Honda Civic 1996-2000 Aftermarket Frame Locks - Korbach Performance

longfellow2 · 05-11-2008, 12:17 AM

I want the tubing to flex under load a little or it will probably cause stress cracks or break the welds.

Thanks. Its all mild steel and I used a mig welder with C02/argon shielding gas. The took about 4 hours each. I was going slow and double checking everything.

Where do those frame locks bolt on? the look interesting.

I really need to tighten up the rear suspension now, I can feel it flex more than the front and under certain loads its really apparent.

05-08-2008, 12:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
longfellow2 Apple Sauce Car: Tomato Juice My TRGarage Orange St. : 638072934	Fender Braces I made some today and am very happy with the results. Noises behind the dash have gone away almost completly. Steering response, Turn in, breaking and over all control have all imporoved noticeably. The front end of the car feels even more planted. I have noticed a fair amount of flexing in the rear of the chassis now, which in turn is causing a bit more over steer than I would like. But I have only 1 small improvised strut brace back there, so that will be adressed shortly. Not beautiful to look at, but they get the job done well and they dont weigh very much, (5.5lbs each side) also didnt want to fork out 250$ for a set. Current Suspension/Chassis mods are: -KTS coil-overs with 8/6k springs -Circuit sport front strut bar -DYI temp Rear strut bar -Fender braces Next up is foam insulating hollow areas in the cabbin/rocker panals rear strutbar and subframe brace.

05-10-2008, 12:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
killerMikeD Lethal Fabrication Car: S10 Hardbody 64 caddy 41 chevy My TRGarage Brandon : 119040619	so um what kinda foam are you all using? not great stuff i hope? 3m makes great automotive foam products, for reducing noise vibration and harshness, and well as some types of rigid structual foam. i can get the product numbers if anyone likes, just send me a pm. Also im not sure if u drive that car as a daily, or if you know that while you are improving the handling and limiting the flex of the unibody structure, you are also greatly reducing the collision absorbing properties of the upper front rails, just something to think about if its a daily, or you drive around any family or friends. With those braces the energy will be directed into the passenger compartment instead of around it. but if not driven on the street please disreguard - mike Last edited by killerMikeD : 05-10-2008 at 12:15 AM.

05-10-2008, 03:22 AM	#10 (permalink)
longfellow2 Apple Sauce Car: Tomato Juice My TRGarage Orange St. : 638072934	Its my only car. Those are also the only braces of that type that will be used on the car. If anything Im betting it will shear the bolts off at the doors, since thats what the back brackets are bolted to. It would take a serious head on impact to have that bracket affect anything that far back, and with that kind of impact I would be in trouble regardless. Passenger side also still has the airbag. I might end up putting in a 6 point cage as well. Foam is a 2 part expanding foam with a 5:1 expansion rate. Its similar to what infinity uses in their cars. Can you send me info on the 3m stuff? Last edited by longfellow2 : 05-10-2008 at 03:28 AM.

05-08-2008, 11:14 AM	#2 (permalink)
Racer_Jim Likes obscure cars Car: 92 Geo Storm, 88 Shiro 300zx, 87 Haltech'd 300zx, 03 Shiro S2000 My TRGarage Sarasota : 114460983	Awesome! I'm slowly doing the same thing to my 300zx. Spot welding the chassis and frame bracing where is seems flimsy/needed. A tip on the foam though, don't foam where you need to weld later... it is NOT fun. lol

05-08-2008, 12:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
longfellow2 Apple Sauce Car: Tomato Juice My TRGarage Orange St. : 638072934	Thanks. Im focusing on Suspension/steering during the summer. Its getting a complete $2k overhaul.

05-09-2008, 01:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
senor honda Installs it! Builds it! Car: Honda Accord-cowl Inducted, 351 CI Police Interceptor Air Filter with high rise hood My TRGarage around Tampa Florida, Paradise : 169503362	Longfellow, I applaud your efforts in making your own parts. There are some people on here who might choose to hate and criticise you for saving $250, instead of spending for the high dollar setup, but I am not one of those people. Almost every week I myself, am fabricating something for someone, pretty often something that cannot be bought from an aftermarlet company..... so bro, if you want to post up some pics, that may help out other people and maybe provoke people's minds to find creative solutions to car problems....-Bob

05-09-2008, 03:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
norachelhere fails..... Car: My TRGarage : 2147483647	I wouldn't have thought that, that part of the chassis would flex that much. The noise part I would believe, but the actual flexing part, I just don't get...

05-09-2008, 03:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
norachelhere fails..... Car: My TRGarage : 2147483647	never mind, I thought about it some more and I see how it would improve the firmness...

05-09-2008, 11:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
senor honda Installs it! Builds it! Car: Honda Accord-cowl Inducted, 351 CI Police Interceptor Air Filter with high rise hood My TRGarage around Tampa Florida, Paradise : 169503362	Believe it! Honda's flex. I have a micro switch installed in my driver's side door. When I make a sweeping right hander, the warning buzzer tells me the micro switch is opening....I suspect due to the car flexing, since it will stop buzzing once I get the car going straight again.-Bob Oh, and by the way, folks.....the foam that is sprayed into the subframe as a stiffener, is NOT the stuff in the spray cans from Home depot or Lowes. If you are going to foam the subframe, get the foam from the dealer.

05-09-2008, 11:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
longfellow2 Apple Sauce Car: Tomato Juice My TRGarage Orange St. : 638072934	Grainger sells it. Its expensive. Ive yet to jack the car up but thats the tell tale sign of how much the front end flexes under load.

05-10-2008, 02:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
killerMikeD Lethal Fabrication Car: S10 Hardbody 64 caddy 41 chevy My TRGarage Brandon : 119040619	Well i do agree that it would take a major collision for it to affect anything that far back, but when is it that you get to decide how hard of a collision you will have? since they are that far back your right it is less likely to cause issues, the convoluted and crush zones are further towards the front on the rails, while your braces are by the long bead like zones that are actually there to make that area stronger, reguardless the braces may still affect air bag timing, but atleast you are aware of the situation, some people are not. Anyway heres is the Foam that we use to replace the factory foam on collision damaged cehicles. It is 3M pillar foam. This rigid foam expands to 10 times its original volume. It is really designed to flow in and fill to add strength and eliminate wind noise. This product can be used to replace OEM rigid foams. Foam time is 1 minute, work time is 5 minutes, and cure time is one hour. - mike 3M Automix Pillar Foam 200 ml Cartridge

05-10-2008, 03:37 PM	#12 (permalink)
longfellow2 Apple Sauce Car: Tomato Juice My TRGarage Orange St. : 638072934	Applied Energy Products & Sales ^Thats what I was going to use, and I know a few people that have already completed it using that and it seems to work out well. But the 3m stuff is more expensive since I would have to use the gun. Thanks for the link though. I usually never have passengers in my car, and if I do I make sure they wear their seatbelt. The Airbag sensor is in the bumper support so I dont think the braces will cause any problems with it.

05-10-2008, 05:10 PM	#13 (permalink)
senor honda Installs it! Builds it! Car: Honda Accord-cowl Inducted, 351 CI Police Interceptor Air Filter with high rise hood My TRGarage around Tampa Florida, Paradise : 169503362	Longfellow, I would say you pretty much thought it out...-Bob I'm starting to think about foaming those braces that you made for a little more rigidity.....lightweight.....stronger.....why not?-Bob

05-10-2008, 08:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
Outkasted24 I ♥ Old Skool Car: The on-going Project Old Skool DA9 My TRGarage Lutz : 2147483647	Very Nice Modification How long did it take to make? Mild steel and Mig? It's amazing how much flex there really is in these cars. 2 cars ago I purchased these things called "Frame Locks" for dirt cheap. They retailed for $200 and some kid was selling them for $50 on a car forum. I thought "what the hell, for $50 it's worth the money to see if they really do work. All I can say was, Holy Shit what a difference !!!! There was so much play in the steering response before the locks were installed, Who knew !!! Here's the product I'm talking about. Honda Civic 1996-2000 Aftermarket Frame Locks - Korbach Performance

05-11-2008, 12:17 AM	#15 (permalink)
longfellow2 Apple Sauce Car: Tomato Juice My TRGarage Orange St. : 638072934	I want the tubing to flex under load a little or it will probably cause stress cracks or break the welds. Thanks. Its all mild steel and I used a mig welder with C02/argon shielding gas. The took about 4 hours each. I was going slow and double checking everything. Where do those frame locks bolt on? the look interesting. I really need to tighten up the rear suspension now, I can feel it flex more than the front and under certain loads its really apparent.