My $.02...Trying to clear up why you shouldn'd cut your stock springs to lower a car.
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My $.02...Trying to clear up why you shouldn'd cut your stock springs to lower a car.
My $.02...Trying to clear up why you shouldn'd cut your stock springs to lower a car.
This is a Question that has been beaten to death on (it seems) all Tech. forums but has never been cleared up with hard facts, Just a bunch of people posting "Just Don't do it" or "I had a friend that did it and no good came out of it".
So I'm lending to you what took me Hours of Research ..........to make up this little bit of hard evidence.
I posted this in another thread here on TR, and I decided to also give it it's own topic in "Chassis & Suspension Tech."
Please feel free to discuss your opinions on this topic and let's make this a quality thread.
Before you go cutting your OEM springs, Please take a couple minutes and read this very important explanation on why you shouldn't.
Let's start with the basics.....................A ton of links to back up my opinion.
Car Suspension - How Suspension Systems Work on Cars
Car lowering 101
springs: cut 'em? - rec.autos.makers.honda | Google Groups
Click Here
More Good Info
Change Spring Rates?
Spring Rates and how to calulate change
Calculator for Finding Spring Rates from Design Specifications for Compression Springs
Pro Shock Double Spring Rate Calculator
Sport Rider Technicalities-Spring Rate and Preload
NUMBER ONE: RESEARCH Is Your Friend !
NUMBER TWO: Cutting a spring will give you a better chance of hitting a bump and popping the spring seat out of the perch.
All Produced springs have a flattened transition on them which lets the spring seat correctly on the shock/strut perch, and the rubber cup of the top hat.
If you cut a spring on the bottom, the flat spot is now gone and the angle of the coils will not hold in their proper indentation......which can create a very big and noisy problem when riding down a rough road, and may abruptly position the whole spring out of it's perch and wedge it at an angle overlapping the shock cup.
This will make the car's ride height uneven and dangerous when steering.
If you cut the top of the spring off, The combination of angled sharp metal and a rubber Top Hat will cause gouges in the rubber and evenly complete destruction, Then you will have a loose spring and much bigger and more expensive problems on your hands.
& NUMBER THREE: A stock, cut spring will still have the stock spring rate. Aftermarket lowering springs have increased spring rates, usually about 25-30% stiffer than stock so it won't bottom out. If you cut stock springs, it will bottom out very hard and give a hellish ride. You'll blow your shocks and your car will ride ghetto. If you only want to lower your car and you don't have the funding to afford Tein, Neuspeed, or H&R, get some cheap ebay coilovers or invest in some Drop Zone Race springs. People who cut their springs to lower their cars, are cheap asses and shouldn't even be modifying cars IMHO. BUY SPRINGS and lower your car the right way the first time!!!!!!
& NUMBER FOUR: The biggest problem w/ cut springs, is that you have no Idea what sort of spring rates you have after you do it. Also, there is NO WAY to cut both sides so they come out w/ the same spring rate. This will give your car dangerous handling problems.
Imagine you slam on the brakes to save your life & the car leans to the Left side, causing your car swerve into oncoming traffic or to the right where there is a drop off from pavement to grass/dirt shoulder and you bottom out tearing up your oil pan or something worse.
Your next problem is that taking a spring & removing some of the coils will cause the spring to become much stiffer (less wire = harder spring). This is why your car will be Hella bouncy. The severe stiffness of the springs can't be overcome by the shocks & will cause them to be destroyed. Now you need new shocks, and that cost much more than really good lowering springs.
Have you ever run around on bald tires in the front, Then accelerate quickly on a road like Dale Mabry. There are so many potholes and uneven levels in the road, You Tend to loose control very easy and could cause an accident.
Driving in the rain is even worse,....................(And Rainy Season Is right around the corner).
Uneven Spring Rates are the same Idea......If you have a stiff spring on one side and a weak spring on the other, Control is going to be a very hard thing to come by, especially on an uneven road!!!
Don't risk the reliability of ride, continuous Cost of new Tires, Replacing Shocks, Having an accident, damage to the rest of your suspension components, insurance rates if you get into an accident that's your fault, having the cut spring popping out of the perch because the seat is now at an angle instead of a flat surface like purposely created on all factory/aftermarket assembled springs, Etc...........
I'm getting tired of typing, But if that info didn't scare you into not cutting springs, I have a lot more info that I can Quote or print off on a scanner and post it up.
Best Of Luck with your decision!
-Jeff
This is a Question that has been beaten to death on (it seems) all Tech. forums but has never been cleared up with hard facts, Just a bunch of people posting "Just Don't do it" or "I had a friend that did it and no good came out of it".
So I'm lending to you what took me Hours of Research ..........to make up this little bit of hard evidence.
I posted this in another thread here on TR, and I decided to also give it it's own topic in "Chassis & Suspension Tech."
Please feel free to discuss your opinions on this topic and let's make this a quality thread.
Before you go cutting your OEM springs, Please take a couple minutes and read this very important explanation on why you shouldn't.
Let's start with the basics.....................A ton of links to back up my opinion.
Car Suspension - How Suspension Systems Work on Cars
Car lowering 101
springs: cut 'em? - rec.autos.makers.honda | Google Groups
Click Here
More Good Info
Change Spring Rates?
Spring Rates and how to calulate change
Calculator for Finding Spring Rates from Design Specifications for Compression Springs
Pro Shock Double Spring Rate Calculator
Sport Rider Technicalities-Spring Rate and Preload
NUMBER ONE: RESEARCH Is Your Friend !
NUMBER TWO: Cutting a spring will give you a better chance of hitting a bump and popping the spring seat out of the perch.
All Produced springs have a flattened transition on them which lets the spring seat correctly on the shock/strut perch, and the rubber cup of the top hat.
If you cut a spring on the bottom, the flat spot is now gone and the angle of the coils will not hold in their proper indentation......which can create a very big and noisy problem when riding down a rough road, and may abruptly position the whole spring out of it's perch and wedge it at an angle overlapping the shock cup.
This will make the car's ride height uneven and dangerous when steering.
If you cut the top of the spring off, The combination of angled sharp metal and a rubber Top Hat will cause gouges in the rubber and evenly complete destruction, Then you will have a loose spring and much bigger and more expensive problems on your hands.
& NUMBER THREE: A stock, cut spring will still have the stock spring rate. Aftermarket lowering springs have increased spring rates, usually about 25-30% stiffer than stock so it won't bottom out. If you cut stock springs, it will bottom out very hard and give a hellish ride. You'll blow your shocks and your car will ride ghetto. If you only want to lower your car and you don't have the funding to afford Tein, Neuspeed, or H&R, get some cheap ebay coilovers or invest in some Drop Zone Race springs. People who cut their springs to lower their cars, are cheap asses and shouldn't even be modifying cars IMHO. BUY SPRINGS and lower your car the right way the first time!!!!!!
& NUMBER FOUR: The biggest problem w/ cut springs, is that you have no Idea what sort of spring rates you have after you do it. Also, there is NO WAY to cut both sides so they come out w/ the same spring rate. This will give your car dangerous handling problems.
Imagine you slam on the brakes to save your life & the car leans to the Left side, causing your car swerve into oncoming traffic or to the right where there is a drop off from pavement to grass/dirt shoulder and you bottom out tearing up your oil pan or something worse.
Your next problem is that taking a spring & removing some of the coils will cause the spring to become much stiffer (less wire = harder spring). This is why your car will be Hella bouncy. The severe stiffness of the springs can't be overcome by the shocks & will cause them to be destroyed. Now you need new shocks, and that cost much more than really good lowering springs.
Have you ever run around on bald tires in the front, Then accelerate quickly on a road like Dale Mabry. There are so many potholes and uneven levels in the road, You Tend to loose control very easy and could cause an accident.
Driving in the rain is even worse,....................(And Rainy Season Is right around the corner).
Uneven Spring Rates are the same Idea......If you have a stiff spring on one side and a weak spring on the other, Control is going to be a very hard thing to come by, especially on an uneven road!!!
Don't risk the reliability of ride, continuous Cost of new Tires, Replacing Shocks, Having an accident, damage to the rest of your suspension components, insurance rates if you get into an accident that's your fault, having the cut spring popping out of the perch because the seat is now at an angle instead of a flat surface like purposely created on all factory/aftermarket assembled springs, Etc...........
I'm getting tired of typing, But if that info didn't scare you into not cutting springs, I have a lot more info that I can Quote or print off on a scanner and post it up.
Best Of Luck with your decision!
-Jeff
Last edited by Outkasted24; 08-10-2007 at 05:25 PM. Reason: .........
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I'm also sharing my secrets, Here are a bunch of links that offer a enormous amount of valuable information on Suspensions.
Your Welcome....
The
Wheel / tire size calculator / comparer - RIMS-N-TIRES
Howstuffworks "How Car Suspensions Work"
Vehicle: Automotive Suspension & Steering: Suspension Systems: Course Information
How Bose may not just engineer Speakers.........
Bose® Learning Center - Bose Suspension System
Car Bibles : The Car Suspension Bible
Auto Performance Progressive Suspension, Lowering Springs, Shocks, Struts, Strut Bar & Camber Kit
Automotive suspension design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
some not-so everyday Products:
Kingsmart Ltd.
Körbach Performance Aftermarket Frame Locks Honda Civic
EMRACING | Horsepower For Your Suspension
EMRACING | Suspension To The Power Of EM
MIRACLE X BAR by NEXT - EF8 EG6 EK9 DA6 DC2
Full-Race Motorsports LLC "Everything Else is Half Fast"
How To:
Honda, Acura Tech Website, tutorials, tuning and HOW-TO's. Drag racing, street racing, road racing - C-speedracing.com
Your Welcome and Reps are always appreciated!!!!
Your Welcome....
The
Wheel / tire size calculator / comparer - RIMS-N-TIRES
Howstuffworks "How Car Suspensions Work"
Vehicle: Automotive Suspension & Steering: Suspension Systems: Course Information
How Bose may not just engineer Speakers.........
Bose® Learning Center - Bose Suspension System
Car Bibles : The Car Suspension Bible
Auto Performance Progressive Suspension, Lowering Springs, Shocks, Struts, Strut Bar & Camber Kit
Automotive suspension design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
some not-so everyday Products:
Kingsmart Ltd.
Körbach Performance Aftermarket Frame Locks Honda Civic
EMRACING | Horsepower For Your Suspension
EMRACING | Suspension To The Power Of EM
MIRACLE X BAR by NEXT - EF8 EG6 EK9 DA6 DC2
Full-Race Motorsports LLC "Everything Else is Half Fast"
How To:
Honda, Acura Tech Website, tutorials, tuning and HOW-TO's. Drag racing, street racing, road racing - C-speedracing.com
Your Welcome and Reps are always appreciated!!!!
Last edited by Outkasted24; 04-14-2007 at 12:36 PM.
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rep'd.
this is a QUICK off topic question, What coil over set up, under 1k do you recomend for 99 integra, i plan to put it on scales ect.
this is a QUICK off topic question, What coil over set up, under 1k do you recomend for 99 integra, i plan to put it on scales ect.
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My First Choice would be Tein, Then Skunk2, K-Sport, Omni Power, Then Function & Form Type II Full Coilovers and/or NEX full coilover systems.....After That, Your exceeding the $1K mark....but you definitely get what you pay for....Tein Type Flex Damper, Buddy Club, H&R, Etc........
JHPUSA.com has a great deal on Skunk2 full coilovers now, And they are probably one of the best on the market....especially for the price.
With Skunk2 you can also get custom rated springs down the road and they are pretty fair on price.
Omni Powers you can also get custom spring rates, But They are more expensive and only come in a few different series, Skunk2 has a wider variety to choose from.
If your looking for just a slip over sleave type coilover and shock combo, KYB AGX and Ground Control would be my favorite.
Omni Power USA, Inc - Still Going
Or for a better price.........
Omni Power Full Coilovers (EG/DC) | JDM Honda Parts, JDM Honda Engines / JDM Nissan Motor Swaps, Used JDM Parts - Password JDM
Acura Integra, 1994-01 DC2 & DB8 - Coilovers - Suspension & Chassis - HeelToe Automotive
Skunk2 Pro Series Coilovers w/ Pillow Top 94-01 Integra - JHPUSA.COM Serving JDM Since 1999
Function & Form Type II Full Coilovers 94-01 Integra - JHPUSA.COM Serving JDM Since 1999
Ksport USA - Performance Suspension - Contact Us
JHPUSA.com has a great deal on Skunk2 full coilovers now, And they are probably one of the best on the market....especially for the price.
With Skunk2 you can also get custom rated springs down the road and they are pretty fair on price.
Omni Powers you can also get custom spring rates, But They are more expensive and only come in a few different series, Skunk2 has a wider variety to choose from.
If your looking for just a slip over sleave type coilover and shock combo, KYB AGX and Ground Control would be my favorite.
Omni Power USA, Inc - Still Going
Or for a better price.........
Omni Power Full Coilovers (EG/DC) | JDM Honda Parts, JDM Honda Engines / JDM Nissan Motor Swaps, Used JDM Parts - Password JDM
Acura Integra, 1994-01 DC2 & DB8 - Coilovers - Suspension & Chassis - HeelToe Automotive
Skunk2 Pro Series Coilovers w/ Pillow Top 94-01 Integra - JHPUSA.COM Serving JDM Since 1999
Function & Form Type II Full Coilovers 94-01 Integra - JHPUSA.COM Serving JDM Since 1999
Ksport USA - Performance Suspension - Contact Us
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outkasted, nice informative read...one problem i see # 3 you say that a stock cut spring will still have a stock spring rate, while step 4 says you dont know what spring rate you will have once you cut it...kinda contradicting...either way i never have nor ever will cut my springs...reason my girls accord isnt lowered yet ( i havent forgot about your services, still saving for shocks) i see you know your shit and im not getting on you...just found something a lil weird....continue on tho..lol
In #3 I'm trying to say that the middle of the spring is still going to have a very soft/stock spring rate, Meaning The strength isn't going to fully be there in the middle and the length of the freshly cut spring is going to be lacking the stiffer spring rate from the ends.
There won't be enough catch on the spring and you have a greater chance of bottoming out, The strong rate sits at the top and bottom of a spring, If you cut the stronger part off....Well, Now the new Bottom/Top is weaker along with the middle.
In #4 I'm basically trying to say......By Cutting a front spring on one side, You'll never get an exact rate on the other side.
You won't have that stiff catch and the perch won't hold the seat tight....Like Factory and Aftermarket springs are engineered to do.
Why do you think all applications are so specific.
If you look at a set of springs, They are wound the opposite way for each side and The Seats are the opposite.
You won't get a perfect cut and the rates won't be perfect either.
By cutting a spring, Your basically weakening the integrity of the whole set up.
Stiff bottom and top, soft middle to compress and decompress while going over bumps.
A soft spring won't decompress fast enough when coming off of a bump, That means there is play in your suspension and the body isn't 100% planted to the ground.
If you don't have full contact at all times, You won't have full control.
It's really hard to explain in words, If you were standing in front of me and I had a spring in my hand, It would be so much easier to explain and show by example.
-Jeff
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& NUMBER THREE: A stock, cut spring will still have the stock spring rate. Aftermarket lowering springs have increased spring rates, usually about 25-30% stiffer than stock so it won't bottom out. If you cut stock springs, it will bottom out very hard and give a hellish ride. You'll blow your shocks and your car will ride ghetto. If you only want to lower your car and you don't have the funding to afford Tein, Neuspeed, or H&R, get some cheap ebay coilovers or invest in some Drop Zone Race springs. People who cut their springs to lower their cars, are cheap asses and shouldn't even be modifying cars IMHO. BUY SPRINGS and lower your car the right way the first time!!!!!!
& NUMBER FOUR: The biggest problem w/ cut springs, is that you have no Idea what sort of spring rates you have after you do it. Also, there is NO WAY to cut both sides so they come out w/ the same spring rate. This will give your car dangerous handling problems.
Imagine you slam on the brakes to save your life & the car leans to the Left side, causing your car swerve into oncoming traffic or to the right where there is a drop off from pavement to grass/dirt shoulder and you bottom out tearing up your oil pan or something worse.
& NUMBER FOUR: The biggest problem w/ cut springs, is that you have no Idea what sort of spring rates you have after you do it. Also, there is NO WAY to cut both sides so they come out w/ the same spring rate. This will give your car dangerous handling problems.
Imagine you slam on the brakes to save your life & the car leans to the Left side, causing your car swerve into oncoming traffic or to the right where there is a drop off from pavement to grass/dirt shoulder and you bottom out tearing up your oil pan or something worse.
if you are careful in your measurements and your cutting (i.e. not using a torch and keeping the metal cool), removing sharp edges and painting the bare metal you should have no issues.
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Thanks for catching that, I guess I got a little caught up while editing everything before I hit "POST".
In #3 I'm trying to say that the middle of the spring is still going to have a very soft/stock spring rate, Meaning The strength isn't going to fully be there in the middle and the length of the freshly cut spring is going to be lacking the stiffer spring rate from the ends.
There won't be enough catch on the spring and you have a greater chance of bottoming out, The strong rate sits at the top and bottom of a spring, If you cut the stronger part off....Well, Now the new Bottom/Top is weaker along with the middle.
In #4 I'm basically trying to say......By Cutting a front spring on one side, You'll never get an exact rate on the other side.
You won't have that stiff catch and the perch won't hold the seat tight....Like Factory and Aftermarket springs are engineered to do.
Why do you think all applications are so specific.
If you look at a set of springs, They are wound the opposite way for each side and The Seats are the opposite.
You won't get a perfect cut and the rates won't be perfect either.
By cutting a spring, Your basically weakening the integrity of the whole set up.
Stiff bottom and top, soft middle to compress and decompress while going over bumps.
A soft spring won't decompress fast enough when coming off of a bump, That means there is play in your suspension and the body isn't 100% planted to the ground.
If you don't have full contact at all times, You won't have full control.
It's really hard to explain in words, If you were standing in front of me and I had a spring in my hand, It would be so much easier to explain and show by example.
-Jeff
In #3 I'm trying to say that the middle of the spring is still going to have a very soft/stock spring rate, Meaning The strength isn't going to fully be there in the middle and the length of the freshly cut spring is going to be lacking the stiffer spring rate from the ends.
There won't be enough catch on the spring and you have a greater chance of bottoming out, The strong rate sits at the top and bottom of a spring, If you cut the stronger part off....Well, Now the new Bottom/Top is weaker along with the middle.
In #4 I'm basically trying to say......By Cutting a front spring on one side, You'll never get an exact rate on the other side.
You won't have that stiff catch and the perch won't hold the seat tight....Like Factory and Aftermarket springs are engineered to do.
Why do you think all applications are so specific.
If you look at a set of springs, They are wound the opposite way for each side and The Seats are the opposite.
You won't get a perfect cut and the rates won't be perfect either.
By cutting a spring, Your basically weakening the integrity of the whole set up.
Stiff bottom and top, soft middle to compress and decompress while going over bumps.
A soft spring won't decompress fast enough when coming off of a bump, That means there is play in your suspension and the body isn't 100% planted to the ground.
If you don't have full contact at all times, You won't have full control.
It's really hard to explain in words, If you were standing in front of me and I had a spring in my hand, It would be so much easier to explain and show by example.
-Jeff
not saying that is safe however you know my car as well as I do I've never had a problem at all....
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Well Matt, I think in your case the scenario was a little different then the point I'm trying to make above.
We only took out stacked coils on your Aftermarket springs.
They are there just to add height, They were touching the coils of the next row below and don't really have anything to do with bounce and resistance.
We were only dealing with less then 1/2" drop to level the car out for looks, Not drastically drop the car by cutting the middle and top of the spring off of a factory spring..
-Jeff
We only took out stacked coils on your Aftermarket springs.
They are there just to add height, They were touching the coils of the next row below and don't really have anything to do with bounce and resistance.
We were only dealing with less then 1/2" drop to level the car out for looks, Not drastically drop the car by cutting the middle and top of the spring off of a factory spring..
-Jeff
