Rotas & Auto-xing

[Alan]

How do these wheels hold up to the stresses of regular auto-xing? Considering purchasing a set since they are so light/cheap.

[PseudoRealityX]

they'll be just fine. Koseis are a half inch wider....something to think about.

[w0rd]

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=376938&page=1

[Loren]

Rotas are great on a light car for autocrossing, or even track events and racing. I've had my Circuit 8's for at least 4 years now, they've been autocrossed on two different cars (a 2400 lb Saturn and a 2200 lb Miata) with at least 5 different sets of tires for at least 12 events per year along with daily driver use and abuse for the entire time I've owned them.

Regarding the unexplained photo that w0rd posted, that is a Rota Attack wheel from a Subaru. (note that the Sube weighs substantially more than your Honda and also has more power... a LOT more stress is put on the Subaru's wheels) I read a thread about this somewhere a few weeks ago. Rota acknowledged that there was a production problem that affected a very small batch of these wheels... very likely that this particular wheel would have failed on the street, it just happened sooner (and in a controlled environment) with autocross use.

Okay, found the relevant topic, it was on Miata.Net. Here's a snippet:


BTW, here is a post from a Suby guy who had failures:

"Talked to Cecile [Rota representative] on the phone today and she was so nice and apologized for the problems. She informed me that they would replace ALL FOUR wheels [one broke, one had cracks] with whatever model I wanted. SO I could have gotten Attacks, or battles, or tarmacs, or whatever. [edited out stuff not relavent] To top it all off, Cecile tould me to fax her the info on the track day and autocross I missed, and she'd reimburse me for my losses! And also to send a fax of the receipt for swapping the tires, and they'd pay for that too!"

They also paid to have his original wheels shipped back for engineering inspection.


Also referenced there was a thread on a Subaru list with more details, plus some feedback from an actual Rota representative:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=278825 (http://http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=278825)

Word, w0rd??? If you're going to give the guy some info, give him ALL of it!

[w0rd]

Originally posted by Loren
If you're going to give the guy some info, give him ALL of it!

There is a link below the pic that contained all of the info you just said.

[Loren]

Originally posted by w0rd
There is a link below the pic that contained all of the info you just said.

Sorry, dude. When I checked that link last night it was dead. Seems to be working now.

But you have to admit that posting that picture was a rather harsh tactic. LOTS of parts break on occasion, especially in a competition environment. We don't post pics of the rare broken part every time someone asks a question about something.

[Ffej207]

Originally posted by Loren
But you have to admit that posting that picture was a rather harsh tactic. LOTS of parts break on occasion, especially in a competition environment. We don't post pics of the rare broken part every time someone asks a question about something.

I have also heard of several people having failures like that with their Rota wheels. In fact, one of the head haunchos in SCCA in Houston had sent a memo out that was suggesting possibly banning Rota wheels from SCCA events.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Ffej207
I have also heard of several people having failures like that with their Rota wheels. In fact, one of the head haunchos in SCCA in Houston had sent a memo out that was suggesting possibly banning Rota wheels from SCCA events.

The thing to keep in mind is that we're in the age of the Internet. If someone breaks a wheel at an autocross anywhere in the country, we're going to hear about it, and we can do a search and get all the gory details of it anytime we want. Whereas 20 years ago, we would have been blissfully unaware of anything that didn't happen "in our own backyard".

My point is that there are A LOT of Rota wheels out there. A few are going to break. That's the way it goes. It doesn't mean that all Rota wheels are bad. Statistically, the number of failures is VERY low.

Now, if I were buying a set of wheels today, especially for a heavy car, I might be inclined to avoid the Sub Zero or Attack models that have shown the most breakage. Otherwise, I would not give it a second thought.

[chet]

hence the reason to buy volks.

forged, lightweight, unbreakable.

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by chet
hence the reason to buy volks.

forged, lightweight, unbreakable.

Chet, you can buy me my set, because i CERTAINLY dont have the money for them.

[Zate]

Rotas are fine.. Gary Sheehan races them in USTCC and i believe hasnt broken a set..or very many.. depends which ones you guy though..

[BIG_Truck_Driver]

Originally posted by chet
hence the reason to buy volks.

forged, lightweight, unbreakable.


Riiiiggghhht

I don't doubt that they are stronger due to the manufacturing process, however no wheel is unbreakable.

[Loren]

Originally posted by speed_daemon1
Riiiiggghhht

I don't doubt that they are stronger due to the manufacturing process, however no wheel is unbreakable.

<clap><clap><clap>

Thank you. I was going to mention that yesterday, but didn't.

The other thing about the super-light forged wheels is... while they're less prone to cracking and breaking on the track, they are MORE prone to bending under street conditions.

Yet another automotive trade-off.

[0HP930]

Yup, its either break or bend.

I prefer bendy wheels since its always easy to fix an out of round rim and its a lot easier to drive on a bent wheel than one that is no longer connected to the car.

[chet]

i'll take my chances with a forged wheel over rota's anyday.

piece of mind is worth the extra 800 to me.

[b16a2pwr]

Rota wheels are JWL test and and approved before they com into the country. Of course I bet a Spoon wheel has shattered somewhere down the line. But for the money, I don't think that you can beat a set of Rota wheels

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by chet
i'll take my chances with a forged wheel over rota's anyday.

piece of mind is worth the extra 800 to me.

Again, should I post my address so you can send me the check?;)

[Loren]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
Again, should I post my address so you can send me the check?;)

I'm with you. I think Chet should buy us all some Volks. 'Cuz he could be working course when we're driving... and his peace of mind is worth it!

:D

I'll accept PayPal if you don't want the hassle of mailing a check.

[lstepnio]

Originally posted by chet
i'll take my chances with a forged wheel over rota's anyday.

piece of mind is worth the extra 800 to me.

I've seen a fair share of expensive forged wheels break.

[Alan]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
they'll be just fine. Koseis are a half inch wider....something to think about.

Any idea where I can find a good deal on a set of these wheels? Best I have found was $139 for the 16x7's.

[Loren]

Originally posted by phatstang1
Any idea where I can find a good deal on a set of these wheels? Best I have found was $139 for the 16x7's.

If you've got your heart set on 16's, that's cool. But, you might want to compare the wide variety of 15" tires to the not-so-wide variety of 16" tires available. You have a lot more options with 15's... and they're cheaper.

Just a thought.

[Alan]

I'm really split between getting 16's or 15's. I love the cost effectiveness of the 15's, yet if I want to upgrade my brakes sometime in the future I'll need to go back to 16's.

Any suggestions on some inexpensive, light, wide 15 inchers? Are the Slipstreams my only decent choice?

[Loren]

Originally posted by phatstang1
I'm really split between getting 16's or 15's. I love the cost effectiveness of the 15's, yet if I want to upgrade my brakes sometime in the future I'll need to go back to 16's.

Upgrading brakes is a highly over-rated thing. Most cars need nothing more than better brake pads and maybe some brake ducting if they need anything at all. Typically, the most effective thing you can do to improve braking is get better tires.

Ask yourself what brake problem you're trying to address with bigger brakes, then see if you can find a simpler way to address the problem.

(it would be a shame to spend bucks on lightweight wheels, and even more bucks on a big-brake upgrade only to end up with the same unsprung/rotating mass when you're done!)

Read the brake articles here: Team scR Tech Articles (http://www.teamscr.com/techarticles2.html)


Any suggestions on some inexpensive, light, wide 15 inchers? Are the Slipstreams my only decent choice?

Here's where a lot of the Miata guys go for the lightest and least expensive wheels: Goodwin Racing (http://www.good-win-racing.com/goodwinracing_001.htm)

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by phatstang1
I'm really split between getting 16's or 15's. I love the cost effectiveness of the 15's, yet if I want to upgrade my brakes sometime in the future I'll need to go back to 16's.

Any suggestions on some inexpensive, light, wide 15 inchers? Are the Slipstreams my only decent choice?

Kosei 15 x 7's have become a very popular road race wheel. ~140 bucks each too...not too shabby at all, and has proven to take some major abuse.

[Alan]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
Kosei 15 x 7's have become a very popular road race wheel. ~140 bucks each too...not too shabby at all, and has proven to take some major abuse.

Unfortunately the only K1 applications for the Focus are the 16's and 17's. :(

[PseudoRealityX]

Enkei RP-01s, if you can find them are another good choice.

Whatever happened to FSP?

[Alan]

How about Team Dynamics Pro-Race 1? They have a 15x7 application for the Focus that weighs in just under 14lbs each. Hear any good/bad feedback on these wheels?

http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/images/prorace1-anth.jpg

Also, would a 215 fit on a 7inch wide rim and still have enough lip exposed for the alignment machine to grap ahold of?

[Loren]

Originally posted by phatstang1
How about Team Dynamics Pro-Race 1? They have a 15x7 application for the Focus that weighs in just under 14lbs each. Hear any good/bad feedback on these wheels?

http://www.teamdynamicsracing.com/images/prorace1-anth.jpg

Also, would a 215 fit on a 7inch wide rim and still have enough lip exposed for the alignment machine to grap ahold of?

Too heavy. If you're serious about performance and handling, get something in the 12 lb range or lighter.

Alignment head fit depends on the specific rim lip design and the specific tire, not just the sizes. Also depends on the alignment head, there are several types.

[PseudoRealityX]

15 x 7 and under 12 lbs? I think you've been listening to Chet too much with his "Volks are worth it" crap;)


14 lbs isnt bad. Rotational weight isnt nearly as important as most people think. The unsprung weight factor is more important.

[Loren]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
15 x 7 and under 12 lbs? I think you've been listening to Chet too much with his "Volks are worth it" crap;)


14 lbs isnt bad. Rotational weight isnt nearly as important as most people think. The unsprung weight factor is more important.

Rotational weight IS unsprung weight. Lighter wheels are a win-win proposition.

You can get a good 6.5" wheel at 12 lbs (or less) or a 7" wheel at 14 lbs... it's a trade-off, as is everything else on a vehicle.

I don't think an extra half-inch of width is worth 2 lbs. You might not notice the difference on your car, but I can certainly feel a 2 lb difference in the wheels on my Miata. It has to be closer to 5 to really feel it in acceleration, but even 1 pound can be felt when braking and in the heft of the steering. (you can feel things like that when you don't have power steering masking the inputs)

Just changing tires from heavy Azenis to lighter S-03's made a noticeable difference in steering feel.

If he's not planning to run wider than a 215 (or maybe a 225), a 6.5 would be adequate. 7 would, of course, be better for anything over 205... but not 2 lbs better.

[PseudoRealityX]

Well, its my opinion that width is much more important than weight.

You don't win races with acceleration, you win races with handling, and the extra half inch is important.

[sam_i_am02]

what is the best size for 15 X 6.5 wheels for autox use? 195/55's?

[Loren]

Originally posted by sam_i_am02
what is the best size for 15 X 6.5 wheels for autox use? 195/55's?

195 is probably the most appropriate tire width for a 6.5" wheel.

The rest depends on what overall diameter you want the tire to have. For a Miata you would want a 195/50-15 to keep a near-stock tire diameter. 195/55 would be too tall.

It just depends on the car.

[BodyRollin']

actually i would have to say a 205 (unless it is a falken which run a little wider) would be the size i would go with, the 195's are actually a bit narrow on the rim.

[PseudoRealityX]

6.5" wheel for autocrossing? 225s. The ONLY way to go if you have the clearance in the fender. I believe its a 45 series. The Miatas run 225s all around on 6" wheels with great success. The extra half inch is even better.

[sam_i_am02]

i have a 2002 corolla, its the body style before the latest ones(smaller)

[Loren]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
6.5" wheel for autocrossing? 225s. The ONLY way to go if you have the clearance in the fender. I believe its a 45 series. The Miatas run 225s all around on 6" wheels with great success. The extra half inch is even better.

The question was "what is the best tire size for a 6.5" wheel", not what's the widest autocross tire you can stuff on a 6.5" wheel if you have no other choice.

Stock class Miatas run 225's on 6" wheels. But if they had the freedom to change wheels, they'd probably be running 225's on a 7.5 or 8" wheel... maybe even 235-245's on a wider wheel. Stock class = sometimes doing weird shit to work around the things you aren't permitted to change.

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by Loren
The question was "what is the best tire size for a 6.5" wheel", not what's the widest autocross tire you can stuff on a 6.5" wheel if you have no other choice.

Stock class Miatas run 225's on 6" wheels. But if they had the freedom to change wheels, they'd probably be running 225's on a 7.5 or 8" wheel... maybe even 235-245's on a wider wheel. Stock class = sometimes doing weird shit to work around the things you aren't permitted to change.

I'm sorry Loren, when he asked for the best autocross tire size, I thought he was asking which would make him faster....and 225s will make him a hellava lot faster than 195s. That's proven, over and over. The disadvantage of using a wheel that's a tad too narrow is FAR overthrown by being able to stick on a MUCH wider tire. And on a camber challanged car like the Corrolla, it'll give him a better wear pattern and his tires will longer. That's from PERSONAL expirience co-drving Jason Minehart's H-stock Protege.

[Leonard]

Are you two brothers?

[PseudoRealityX]

about as much as you and me Lenny;)