is a 97z28 camaro a good auto-x car? [Archive]

accord95

02-21-2003, 10:33 PM

is a automatic, 97 Z28 a good car for auto-cross?

if not, what mods would have to be done to make this a good car for auto cross?

sorry for the stupid question, but a friend of mine thinks his automatic z28 would be a great car for auto cross. i tell him an automatic trany is not good for autocross, he thinks otherwise. plus, isnt this car a little too heavy to be doing autocross?

in the quarter he runs 14.2, i run 14.9 in my crx. i tell him that i could get him if we were running autocross, due to less curb weight, less turning radius, better suspension, and FWD.

maybe im wrong, but could you guys answer these questions and set us straight before we start kickin each others ass.;)

Tits McGee

02-21-2003, 10:37 PM

You can autox anything your little heart desires.

I've seen some badassed f-bodies out on the course before.....and the auto tranny would be fine to autox with too...especially in a car with that much power.

In autox.....it's more about driver skill than anything else. The car makes a difference.....but the driver makes more.

accord95

02-21-2003, 10:44 PM

i read an article in super street last month in the back where this kid was asking them if a automatic supra would be a good car for auto cross. he wanted to buy a supra and wanted to auto cross. the guys there said the automatic is not practicle for auto-x plus the curb weight is high. and that it would cost too much money to turn a supra into an auto-x car.

Tits McGee

02-21-2003, 10:47 PM

Hahaha, show up to a FSF event and you'll see an auto Supra kick some ass hardcore.

Besides, Super Street is crap. Just have your friend bring the car out and have some fun. Doesn't matter if it's the best car for it or not.....god only knows mine's not.

Zate

02-22-2003, 02:19 PM

exactly what lelsie is sayin..i have seen both an auto supra.. and an auto Fbody do really well (as in getting time of the day or close to it) at the FSF auto X's... but she was dead on when she said it was the driver that makes the diff.. just cos your CRX is small dont mean squat really... it might be a little easier to do well in.. but doesnt mean your gonna own him..hehe..

autox is about friendly competition. learning your cars (and your own) limits.. and above all.. FUN :)

i'll be at the next one gettin some major sideways action in the mach :)

fastforward

02-22-2003, 05:03 PM

I witnessed a white 97-ish Z-28 with nuthin' but a Borla cat back system kick some major butt out at the Martin Sports Car club autocross in Orlando a couple of years ago. I have some video of it somewhere.
A NSX owner I spoke to, said the Z-28 driver was beating his NSX's times in a big way.
The Z-28 driver also knew what he was doing on the track.

In capable hands a V8 rear drive car is probably one of the best autocross vehicles. It's hard to drive fast, but if you can do it, you would be hard to catch.
Front driver vehicles have their inherent auto-x issues too. Understeer mostly. Also, when your turning wheels and driving wheels are one in the same, the results can be less than pleasing.

I remember an article recently in some import mag where they tested a stock Mustang GT against a Type-R on a race track. The GT walked all over the R by two seconds a lap!!!! And both cars were driven by import guys. I was suprised they even admitted the mustang's triumph in the article.

accord95

02-22-2003, 06:26 PM

what mods would you do to a camaro to make it into a better auto-x car?

Tits McGee

02-22-2003, 11:32 PM

suspension bars....stiffer springs......adjustable shocks......good tires.

Bob22b

02-23-2003, 12:45 AM

1 Driver
2 Tires
3 Suspension
4 Power

chet

02-23-2003, 01:39 AM

while most of the import guys won't give the camaro or mustang any credit, the domestics won't give the nsx or type r any credit either...

so i'll begin by saying a camaro can be a good auto-x car with just hoosiers and stiffer springs.

although its mostly the driver, the shorter the wheelbase the faster a car will be through a traditional auto-x course. (thats saying the car has an equal power/weight ratio, good tires, good driver...)

accord95

02-23-2003, 02:44 PM

thanks for your answers, i guess the only way i'll know is to take his ass to the track.

Loren

02-23-2003, 02:47 PM

The short answer is "yes" it can be a good autocross car. The long answer is... what are the goals of this Camaro owner?

If he just wants to have fun, he can certainly have a lot of fun autocrossing that car in its stock form. It has no inherent handling issues that would make it "unfun" to compete in.

Beyond that it's just a matter of what he wants to do with the car and whether or not he's concerned with what class he runs in (or whether or not he wants to win a particular class).

For Stock class, a good set of shocks, a good alignment and a set of tires will get the car close. The rest is up to the driver.

For Street Prepared, you get into choosing the best transmission and rear-end ratios, perhaps some lighter parts like the 1LE driveshaft, lighter factory radiator, etc. Proper choice of springs, shocks and swaybars.

Overall, it can be a very capable autocross car... a bit big for my tastes, though.

---------

As to whether your CRX would "get him" at an autocross, that is VERY course dependent. Less weight is always good, but if there aren't a lot of transitions in the course, it won't help you that much. Same with turning radius... not always a factor... in fact, not often a factor. Better suspension? Arguable. The Camaro ain't a Mustang (ducking from the Mustang guys). And FWD... a driver can learn to deal with it, and can do a lot of things to tune a car to handle well in spite of it... but it is not actually a benefit to you. You're asking the front tires to put power down AND steer the car... that's a lot to ask of two tires. And you left out his power advantage. A good driver CAN make use of that by finding every opportunity to use it on course. (likewise, a good underpowered FWD driver can find ways to maintain momentum)

In the end, the battle between you and your Camaro-drivin' friend will come down to two things: Tires and Driver. If you both have similar tires, the better driver will win. Period.

That being said... go kick his ass! Nothing humbles a Camaro driver like getting spanked by a Honda. :)

Seriously, though... just go have some fun.

accord95

02-23-2003, 07:25 PM

true...

PseudoRealityX

02-23-2003, 11:41 PM

F-bodies for one do just fine with automatic trannies. Although not optimal, they have enough torque ANYWHERE in the powerband to overcome the issues.

Just get good at left foot braking. A well driven automatic can run on a National level.

Go look at the results from the National Tour this weekend....F bodies are SERIOUS F-stock cars.

Leonard

02-24-2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Bob22b
1 Driver
2 Tires
3 Suspension
4 Power

I'd put suspension over tires (so long as you're not running 120k mile radials)....

the additional grip is just going to multiply any suspension issues. (stuff like camber gain with suspension compression, body roll is going to be far worse, etc.... you'll have issues with contact patches not staying on the ground etc...)

91TSI_AWD

02-24-2003, 11:24 AM

In my opinion the Camaro would do great. I was considering picking up a 3rd Gen camaro like my old one and my roommate and I got talking about the 3rd and 4th Generations. The suspension and capabilities for auto-x favor the 4th gen. I think it would beat a CRX. I will also second the motion started by chet, Integras and NSXs can handle awsome. I would definatly get suspension and tires above anything else.

97blkz

02-24-2003, 01:54 PM

Wow , corey good thread, in case anyone wonders i am the camaro owner he talks about! I actually have no plans to auto x , i think it's cool and all but seen to many people total their cars and have no insurance pay out, no thanks!! Corey I told you lets race from Ybor I4 entrance to to Ulmerton rd in Pinellas?? best of all worlds the twist at malfunction junction the striaght away on howie franklin , lets see your light body auto x crx do 157mph across the bridge , I know mine can what about you? See corey I want a little of all street race , auto x and a decent track (1/4) time! It is all in the setup of the race your trying to run!

sy2173

02-24-2003, 01:59 PM

My trucks all ready for the march 9th autox..
http://www.syty.net/personal/Typhoon/images/rims/ty_zr1rear.jpg

PseudoRealityX

02-24-2003, 10:30 PM

PseudoRealityX

02-24-2003, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by MinGreyCobra
I'd put suspension over tires (so long as you're not running 120k mile radials)....

the additional grip is just going to multiply any suspension issues. (stuff like camber gain with suspension compression, body roll is going to be far worse, etc.... you'll have issues with contact patches not staying on the ground etc...)

NOPE NOPE NOPE....

Case and point... STS/STX All the suspension mods you want, and power mods, and you can lighten the car, and you STILL wont run as fast as you would with the SAME car in STOCK class. Tires are more important.

chet

02-24-2003, 10:43 PM

i agree with jesse.

Loren

02-24-2003, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
Wow , corey good thread, in case anyone wonders i am the camaro owner he talks about! I actually have no plans to auto x , i think it's cool and all but seen to many people total their cars and have no insurance pay out, no thanks!! Corey I told you lets race from Ybor I4 entrance to to Ulmerton rd in Pinellas?? best of all worlds the twist at malfunction junction the striaght away on howie franklin , lets see your light body auto x crx do 157mph across the bridge , I know mine can what about you? See corey I want a little of all street race , auto x and a decent track (1/4) time! It is all in the setup of the race your trying to run!

Dude, your logic is severely flawed. Just driving across town on ANY road at legal speeds is more likely to get your car totalled than autocrossing it. Remember, there are STUPID PEOPLE out on public roads. And you're talking about RACING across town at speeds in excess of 100 mph? A well-designed autocross course with nothing moving on it but YOU and nothing to hit but a bunch of rubber cones is infinitely safer. And if you take a poll of the few who have wrecked cars at autocrosses, you'll find that most will admit that they could have avoided it with a little common sense. Just like street driving... stupidity can still bite you in the ass.

Reality check: Who do you know personally who has totalled a car at an autocross?

Further reality check: I've only been in the area about 6 months, who can tell me how many cars have been totalled (or even significantly damaged) at autocrosses here in the past few years? I'm guessing not very many. It just doesn't happen that often.

So... quit teasing the little Honda with the obvious fact* that your Camaro has a higher top speed and come out and show him that you're not afraid to get spanked on an autocross course. What's that you say? Oh, you CAN beat him on an autocross course? Well, bring it on! We can all handle the truth... whatever it might be.

* Amusing anecdote: I was in a caravan of SCCA dudes headed to an autocross once and experienced the joy of leaving a 5.7 powered Camaro behind in my bone stock Saturn SC2. It seems that this Camaro was ordered with the cheaper tire option, thus had the 115mph speed limiter! The SC2 was good to 125... eventually. :)

0HP930

02-24-2003, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by MinGreyCobra
I'd put suspension over tires (so long as you're not running 120k mile radials)....

the additional grip is just going to multiply any suspension issues. (stuff like camber gain with suspension compression, body roll is going to be far worse, etc.... you'll have issues with contact patches not staying on the ground etc...)
This from the man who never dares go to an auto-x without his race compound tires. :roll:

I'm pretty sure this was also the case before you did anything to your own suspension.

Tires alone make the difference between my car barely winning or barely losing. :D

accord95

02-25-2003, 12:31 AM

thanks guys for all the input

97blkz, im not talkin about you, im talkin about my other friend who also has a 97 black z28.

one more question???? so weight is not really a factor in auto-x?

i thought weight would be more of a factor in this than drag.

also, lets say we both have the same HP/weight ratio. an analogy would be, lets say my car is a f150 pickup and his car is a school bus. even though he has more HP, im going to beat the school bus on an auto-cross track because of less curb weight, less turning radius, ect.

it just seems to me like theres no way a school bus could take a turn as fast as the truck. just like theres no way a heavy ass camaro is going to be able to take a turn a quick as a CRX, hell i can pick up the back of the car by myself.

the only true way to tell is the track, and my friend takes this shit so seriously that he's pissed at me for asking you guys if his car is good at autocross. he's the type of person that if i ever beat him, he would never talk to me again. too much pride to ever admit he may be wrong.

Loren

02-25-2003, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by accord95vtec

one more question???? so weight is not really a factor in auto-x?

Weight is very important, this is why they say "weight is king". And, all else being equal, a lighter car is going to do everything better than a heavier car. That is: It will accelerate, turn, transition and brake better than a heavier car.

Note that I said "all else being equal". It is not.

- The Camaro has a lot more power, so it can make up for some of its shortcomings in any place it can put down some power.
- The Camaro is RWD, which allows the driver to get on the gas earlier when exiting a turn making even more use of available power.
- The Camaro has a lot wider tires, which will help it to corner nearly as well as the Honda.
- The Camaro is wider, wider track lowers the effective roll center, which again will help it to corner better.

In stock form, with equal (top-notch, National-level) drivers, proper setup and fresh autocross tires, the Camaro should normally be the faster autocrosser. (F Stock is a faster class than H Stock... or is the CRX in D Stock? F Stock is still faster.) But if you trick both cars out to full Street Prepared specs, the CRX will normally be a little quicker except on courses with long straights. (CSP is a slightly faster class than ESP)

To simplify: Just because car A is lighter than car B doesn't mean it will be faster because there are too many other variables. BUT... if car A goes on a diet and loses 100 lbs, it will without question be faster than it was before. Weight is king. (but unpainted CF hoods are still rice :D)

Test: Have a good consistent autocross driver take two runs in a car with an average weight passenger, get a good baseline time. Kick the passenger's fat butt out and let the same driver take another run. Assuming none of the runs were botched, you're guaranteed to see a minimum .5 second difference.

Post edited for bad English and poor proofreading.

PseudoRealityX

02-25-2003, 06:15 AM

I disagree with the passanger difference. .5 seconds for ~150 lb person? No WAY! With a really light car, maybe...but I'll still doubt it. Ive ridden with good National drivers in Miatas, and they've thrown down their fastest runs with my 200 lbs in the car.

FWIW, CRXs are in G-stock....and they are STILL slower than F-stock.

To accord95vtec, Autocross is driver and course dependent more than anything else.

97blkz

02-25-2003, 09:39 AM

loren you think you know all but please consider this fact, I do insurance for a living, my point being no Ins co will cover your car for sanctioned racing , so your car is sol if you do an auto x course. now if I am racing to St Pete and hit the wall Im still covered and get my $ back ! so who has the retarted logic???

Tits McGee

02-25-2003, 10:11 AM

I've been to many autox's......and I've never seen one single person damage their car mechanically in ANY way. Only thing I've seen is tires damaged, and someone's front bumper came off cause it was half way hanging off when they started.

Loren

02-25-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by 97blkz
loren you think you know all but please consider this fact, I do insurance for a living, my point being no Ins co will cover your car for sanctioned racing , so your car is sol if you do an auto x course. now if I am racing to St Pete and hit the wall Im still covered and get my $ back ! so who has the retarted logic???

Look, I don't think I know all. I know that most (not all, because I do know of claims being paid for autocross damage) insurance companies will not readily cover damage incurred at an autocross.

What I said was that it is very highly unlikely that you will receive any damage to your car at an autocross.

Obviously, you're more concerned about your money and your car than your life or some other innocent person's life. Therein lies the flaw in your logic.

Leonard

02-25-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by 97blkz
loren you think you know all but please consider this fact, I do insurance for a living, my point being no Ins co will cover your car for sanctioned racing , so your car is sol if you do an auto x course. now if I am racing to St Pete and hit the wall Im still covered and get my $ back ! so who has the retarted logic???

Personally, I think your justification for racing on the street is way off base... yes, you may be better covered by your insurance company, but you're also risking tickets, property damage, and possibly even injuring or killing somebody because you're doing stupid stuff in an uncontrolled environment.

When I run an SCCA sanctioned event, I'm competing with several million dollars in liability coverage. The most damage i've ever seen done to a car at an event was a dent in the door from the timing box and that almost exclusively happens because somebody is overdriving...

I'll risk a couple hundred dollar bill to fix a door to compete in a safe environment. When you're in jail for vehicular manslaughter, you'll know i was right...

Zate

02-25-2003, 10:34 AM

definately agree.. SCCA Sanctioned events... and even non SCCA run events are most definaltely a better alternative than racing on the street..

both autoxing and drag racing are much much safer.. i dont understand why people still street race with the plethora of alternatives available..

Card

02-25-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Leslie
I've been to many autox's......and I've never seen one single person damage their car mechanically in ANY way. Only thing I've seen is tires damaged, and someone's front bumper came off cause it was half way hanging off when they started.

if you guys have ever been to the Palm Bay BCC (where they hold events on this coast), you'll notice on the far side of the course is a berm kind of thing. i've seen a miata go over it and take a chunk of dirt in his wheel. pulled the tire off the bead and everything. also scuffed up his front bumper if i remember correctly. i've also seen other minor stuff...but no major wrecks or anything.

although there's a guy with a Z06 that was racing in south florida and let a woman drive it (nothing against women drivers, this driver just happenned to be a woman). anyway, she slid it into a fence, tore off his passenger side mirror, crushed the passenger door, and bent the frame a wee bit.

p.s. this picture is the miata i mentioned. this is how we rode to wal-mart to try and get the original fixed in time for the 3rd run (although we were unsuccessful).

Tits McGee

02-25-2003, 10:54 AM

Then race somewhere where's there's nothing to hit..........i.e. Florida State Fairgrounds.

I was notorious for spinning out and ending up backwards and sideways and in the dirt.....but never once did I do any kind of damage to any car.

Loren

02-25-2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Card

although there's a guy with a Z06 that was racing in south florida and let a woman drive it (nothing against women drivers, this driver just happenned to be a woman). anyway, she slid it into a fence, tore off his passenger side mirror, crushed the passenger door, and bent the frame a wee bit.

That one I did hear about. I've even read the driver's version of what happened. The driver was a very experienced autocrosser, as I recall. (though I can't remember who it was) She got behind the wheel of an outrageously fast car that she wasn't familiar with, was overconfident, and let it get away from her.

PseudoRealityX

02-25-2003, 11:06 AM

Steve Burger (former National Champion) and another Z06, with the woman driver (she was an instructor) have put cars into the fence at GCAC.

This is the motorsports forum... get your street racing bullshit out of it. Simply put, It's incrediably STUPID.

TurboJZA70

02-25-2003, 11:29 AM

Ive seen a Cone stuck under a car before. Repare cost. $0 repare time 1min, thats as bad as ive ever seen it. howered franklyn, ive seen a good number of totaled cars, some look like a no surviver situation. oh ya i got a scuff once autoxing. wow those dangrious autox corses i dare never go back again in fear of all that damage :roll:

Leonard

02-25-2003, 11:51 AM

And I guarantee every instance at an autox you can come up with of a car being damaged can be attributed to the driver and the driver will admit that. Yes, Palm Bay has the berm. YOU KNOW IT'S THERE... YOU KNOW WHERE TO TAKE IT JUST A LITTLE BIT EASY. and if you respect the course, you have no issue...

PseudoRealityX

02-25-2003, 01:23 PM

Worst thing that's happened to my car was the plastic undertrays under the Protege. The MR2 needed an alignment after multiple "offs" at high speed...

lstepnio

02-25-2003, 01:53 PM

I think for a newbie an automatic would be great just because that one less thing you need to worry about.

Tits McGee

02-25-2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by lstepnio
I think for a newbie an automatic would be great just because that one less thing you need to worry about.

Exactly. :w/stupid: :D

97blkz

02-25-2003, 04:34 PM

psuedo , I want an insurnace pay out tuff guy! do your homework smash your car on a track bye bye !!!! no payout , on a road you still get $$$ ! ahh the under educated!

PseudoRealityX

02-25-2003, 04:41 PM

And when you kill someone on the public road, youre going to offer money in return for someone's life? Educated you may be, but intelligent, you are not.

97blkz

02-25-2003, 05:34 PM

What are you going to offer if you kill someone auto xing ????, not even the money, wow! both are dangerous . Face it any type of racing is dangerous ! But let me guess Mr Statistic it's never happened in auto X?? If we want to get petty , lets take all the old people off the road , young people etc !! You can state a million reason why not to do either. So since it's so dangerous I'm going to sell my Z and get bus passes !! Thought about a bicycle but I read they get alot in our area.

Card

02-25-2003, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Loren
That one I did hear about. I've even read the driver's version of what happened. The driver was a very experienced autocrosser, as I recall. (though I can't remember who it was) She got behind the wheel of an outrageously fast car that she wasn't familiar with, was overconfident, and let it get away from her.

the red Z06 driven by David 'something'? yeah, that's him.

0HP930

02-25-2003, 09:32 PM

Damn this bunch of street racing pussies making up excuses since they can't even trust themselves to drive around a bunch of cones and get their asses beat by lesser vehicles.

If none of these guys can drive on an auto-x course without fucking up their shitboxes then I sure don't want their stupid asses anywhere near me on the street.

I bet the main reason whey they don't dare join us is the fact that they don't want to suck ass in front of a bunch of people cause they have no driving skills.

:roll:

Tits McGee

02-26-2003, 12:02 AM

Ignorance is bliss.

Card

02-26-2003, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by 400HP930
Damn this bunch of street racing pussies making up excuses since they can't even trust themselves to drive around a bunch of cones and get their asses beat by lesser vehicles.

If none of these guys can drive on an auto-x course without fucking up their shitboxes then I sure don't want their stupid asses anywhere near me on the street.

I bet the main reason whey they don't dare join us is the fact that they don't want to suck ass in front of a bunch of people cause they have no driving skills.

:roll:

after reading this i almost feel ashamed for being an autocrosser. auto-x is a great way to build skills as a driver in a safe, controlled environment. of all the races i've been to (and it's been quite a few), I've never seen anyone with the additude of people beating each others' asses. we go out to have fun, learn more, and be a better, more competitive driver.

now how good of a driver are you? can you say you're the best driver in the world? if not, what room do you have to criticize? you obviously had to start at some point yourself, how would you have liked it if people just told you to stay away because you weren't up to par with them?

accord95

02-26-2003, 11:57 AM

ok, let me give you guys the whole story here. me and 97blkz are both Marines and have both worked togeter for the past 2 1/2 years. we're both into racing, im into the imports(honda) and hes into domestics(chevy). i love how you can make a little 4 cyl kill a big V8.

97blkz told me about a year ago that no 4cyl could ever beat his car, either drag or autocross. he has since admitted that a 4cyl could beat him, but still has not been beaten. i have been trying to get this crx with the zc swap ready to kill him in the quarter. but recently found that it is going to cost me too much money to beat him in the quarter. so now, i tell him lets race autocross. we've both ran at the track, just not an auto cross track. i am very interested in autocross now, because my sole purpose for the past year was to build a 4cyl to beat his Z28.

i do agree that racing on an autocross track is alot safer and i would love to race and learn. i do, just like 97blkz, work for Progressive auto insurance. and we run into situations like this all the time from all over the U.S. where kids reck their cars racing, and we refuse payout, and turns into a big legal mess. so i understand his concern for that. thankyou for telling him its not dangerous cause i want him to come out and get beatin by my "little 4 cyl"

porche, you call us pussies?????? remember i told you i have a boxing ring in my back yard???? Me and 97blkz would love for you to come over and show us how we are pussies.

PseudoRealityX

02-26-2003, 12:22 PM

I'll race him at an autocross with my 135hp 4 cylinder that runs STOCK class.

He needs to learn that money and skill are not the same. And no, I'm not the best in the world. But I don't suck either.

PseudoRealityX

02-26-2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Card
after reading this i almost feel ashamed for being an autocrosser. auto-x is a great way to build skills as a driver in a safe, controlled environment. of all the races i've been to (and it's been quite a few), I've never seen anyone with the additude of people beating each others' asses. we go out to have fun, learn more, and be a better, more competitive driver.

now how good of a driver are you? can you say you're the best driver in the world? if not, what room do you have to criticize? you obviously had to start at some point yourself, how would you have liked it if people just told you to stay away because you weren't up to par with them?

His point...

Is that someone complaining that they fear the financial issues if they screw their car up going 45mph around traffic cones yet being cocky about how cool they are that they went 150mph down a public highway is RETARDED.

I'm quite competitive when it comes to autocross, but I'm still friends with my competitors, and at the end of the day, nobody is mad at anyone else.

Zate

02-26-2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
His point...

Is that someone complaining that they fear the financial issues if they screw their car up going 45mph around traffic cones yet being cocky about how cool they are that they went 150mph down a public highway is RETARDED.

I'm quite competitive when it comes to autocross, but I'm still friends with my competitors, and at the end of the day, nobody is mad at anyone else.

no..i am mad at you jesse.. cos the RX-8 has no horsepower..hehe ;)

i love being competitive in AutoX.. i loved beating PorsheGuy last year a couple of times.. and him beating me aswell..

but i also like meeting new people and making friends at autox's :)

Leonard

02-26-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
What are you going to offer if you kill someone auto xing ????, not even the money, wow! both are dangerous . Face it any type of racing is dangerous ! But let me guess Mr Statistic it's never happened in auto X?? If we want to get petty , lets take all the old people off the road , young people etc !! You can state a million reason why not to do either. So since it's so dangerous I'm going to sell my Z and get bus passes !! Thought about a bicycle but I read they get alot in our area.

Let's remember that everyone at an autox signs a liability and insurance waiver. There is an accepted amount of risk. The same cannot be said for the ill fated pedestrian you plow down.....

Additionally, at SCCA sanctioned events, and is a SUBSTANTIAL amount of insurance coverage which covers property damage and personal injury.

Bottom line: Your ignorant.

Leonard

02-26-2003, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Zate

i loved beating PorsheGuy last year a couple of times..

Just for the record, I have never been defeated by PorscheDude....

97blkz

02-26-2003, 01:56 PM

Mingrey what ever turd burglar!! Please tell me that you have never street raced??? I will pull old threads so think about it !

97blkz

02-26-2003, 02:08 PM

Auto x is prob not a good idea for me , I will end up mudering one of you smart mouth computer talking tough guys! I Love the attitude in this area , porsche you heard coreys offer , come show me how i am a puss , please show me!!! You know i have been nothing but cool to you and thats how you want to play it?? Psuedo what if you retarded ass rear ends me when your trying to catch me? non financial loss there huh? and your such a stand up guy I 'm sure you'll give the $ for repairs , right?? The worst part of all is I have seen most of you talk about your street races! porsche man goes to gandy just recently , hummm no street racing there huh??

Loren

02-26-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
Auto x is prob not a good idea for me , I will end up mudering one of you...

Okay, time out. Way too much testosterone flowing here lately.

Z-dude, if you want to come to an autocross, do. We've already told you all we can about how safe it is. It's up to you to decide.

If you do come, we will welcome you. Autocrossers are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. They'll offer you setup tips before and after you run. If you suck, we'll not hesitate to tell you so :D, but we'll also offer suggestions on how you might improve your times. If you're good, we'll come tell you that, too!

If you don't want to do autocross... quit wasting our time.

97blkz

02-26-2003, 02:41 PM

If you read the entire post I never "flamed" any auto x'ers , In fact I said it was cool. The fact is I do know someone who lost thier car in an auto x race ( 95 cobra) back in Ohio. I may venture that way one day , but that will be after suspension , tires and brake work ! Why race the track if your not set up for it?? Most of the auto x guys seem cool you are right! but for them to say I am ignorant, a puss etc... and not know me ?? that is where my problem lays!

Loren

02-26-2003, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
If you read the entire post I never "flamed" any auto x'ers , In fact I said it was cool. The fact is I do know someone who lost thier car in an auto x race ( 95 cobra) back in Ohio. I may venture that way one day , but that will be after suspension , tires and brake work ! Why race the track if your not set up for it?? Most of the auto x guys seem cool you are right! but for them to say I am ignorant, a puss etc... and not know me ?? that is where my problem lays!

Don't take those comments personally. I think the underlying intent is to taunt you into getting off your ass and coming out to play. That trick works on a lot of people.

I say don't sweat the setup. If your car is safe enough for you to drive on the street, it's safe enough to autocross. It's all about having fun.

fastforward

02-26-2003, 03:03 PM

Cars are built to withstand a lot more punishment than an autocross can deliver. Unless your drivinga a rust bucket, any car will do fine. Sure I can see if you are running skinnys up front a Mickey T's out back, then you might want to skip your next auto-x venue. But, any car in stock form or better can compete just fine.

As far as the danger....very little of it. No one will pull out infront of you, no obsticles. A safe are area to race. Its certainly something any "car guy" or girl should try at least once. It really gives you a better understanding of your car's and your own driving limits.

The only thing I've ever seen go wrong was at FSF. Some guy in a convertible BMW 323 broke a rear suspension compenent and his wheel went up under his wheel well. He was able to drive it off course. That is rare though.

Your tires will get wear too, but not as bad as you think. I autocrossed a set of soft Yokohama AVS Intermediates, and they were my daily driver rubber too. I got close to 70K miles out em!!!

Bottom libne...come and try it. You will be glad you did. If people don't want to race, let 'em be. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

97blkz

02-26-2003, 03:08 PM

Well loren 1 day I may!! It would be some one like you who may convince me to try it out!! Insulting me is not a way to get me to do something you want , unless that is make your life miserable! Well thanks for your input!

Leonard

02-26-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
Mingrey what ever turd burglar!! Please tell me that you have never street raced??? I will pull old threads so think about it !

Search away anus jockey... you'll find nothing in 1600 posts.

97blkz

02-26-2003, 04:37 PM

Is that right rump ranger?? According to the boys when I ask about you they say your mom wont let you street race! why didn't you just say so , then I would have left you alone!

PseudoRealityX

02-26-2003, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
Auto x is prob not a good idea for me , I will end up mudering one of you smart mouth computer talking tough guys! I Love the attitude in this area , porsche you heard coreys offer , come show me how i am a puss , please show me!!! You know i have been nothing but cool to you and thats how you want to play it?? Psuedo what if you retarded ass rear ends me when your trying to catch me? non financial loss there huh? and your such a stand up guy I 'm sure you'll give the $ for repairs , right?? The worst part of all is I have seen most of you talk about your street races! porsche man goes to gandy just recently , hummm no street racing there huh??

How would I rear end you moron? Do you even understand the concept of autocross? Please be helpful or go away.

I'm a nice guy....ask anyone here who's met me in person.

97blkz

02-26-2003, 05:13 PM

psuedo then act like one! I told you I have never done auto x so I know little . I just want to know what makes you guys think that what i do is you business , when i did my run on howie at 157 it was 5:30 am on sunday morning I saw a semi and two cars not even close to me! my risk i determined was minimal! I would do it again if I was not in fear of the ticket! my brother got 1 at 137mph on the same bridge cost him 3 days in jail and alot of $$$!

0HP930

02-26-2003, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Loren
Don't take those comments personally. I think the underlying intent is to taunt you into getting off your ass and coming out to play. That trick works on a lot of people.
I'm glad someone understands how taunting works. ;)

Has anyone explained to these guys yet that in an auto-x there is only one car on the track at a time and you are racing against a clock?

97blkz

02-26-2003, 06:17 PM

Well maye I am taunting you into a boxing ring , do you understand that 400 hp? Have you thought of another approach besides endangering yourself?? ie... Hey 97blkz I think you would enjoy auto x , maybe you should come out and see us run I'd be glad to get you the info needed! Besides why risk street racing it could be dangerous and costly if caught! wow that's different! But you in your great wisdom call us a puss??? You confuse me , sometimes you seem so peaceful and then you instigate??

TurboJZA70

02-26-2003, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
Psuedo what if you retarded ass rear ends me when your trying to catch me? non financial loss there huh? and your such a stand up guy I 'm sure you'll give the $ for repairs , right?? The worst part of all is I have seen most of you talk about your street races! porsche man goes to gandy just recently , hummm no street racing there huh??

First of all it is 100% impossable for anyone to rear end you. sence his car will be parked or staged wile you are on the corse, ie not racing. only one car is on the corse at a time, or spaced really radicly far apart. ie. one car finishing as the next is started.
The only possable thing you can hit is a cone or one of the plastic milk crates that protect the timing system. anything else is super rare.

the pussy remark was refering to you mental ability to take loosing to a lesser car. not yer ability to beat the $h1T out of someone, figure out the diffrence.

i street race and autox. the whole argument here is that calling autox dangrous and street racing safe is ignorant. this means you just dont know what you are talking about. just becouse you sell insureance for a living does not mean jack in this matter you just dont understand.

0HP930

02-26-2003, 07:24 PM

I call mingreycobra and zate pusses and wussies all the time when they don't come out to an event the rest of us are attending.

I just have to call it like I see it when someone is scared of driving their car between some cones in an open parking lot. Sorry you ain't man enough to handle a little competition and criticism.

If you can only handle your conflicts by trying to beat someone up then perhaps its best that we meet in your buddies ring.

If you can't handle someone razzing your ass you are going to have to eventaully fight about half the people on TR.
:roll:

accord95

02-26-2003, 08:04 PM

true..

look, i'll be the first to admit, when i started this post i didnt know a hell of alot about auto-x. i have done alot of reading about it since.

i think myself and 97blkz thought that there would be more than one car on the track at a time.

i honestly thought auto-x was a little different. ie we just had a situation at work where this guy who was a member of the porsche club of america who wrecked his car at a charity event. we refused payout. i think 97blkz was worried because hes been in insurance for a long time.

porsche, i am the type of person who trys to avoid violence. but you are the biggest shit talker(keyboard hardass) i have ever seen in my life. i dont like hurting anyone physically, just like i dont like to be hurt. thats why god invented boxing gloves! and all it hurts is your pride. i've calmed down alot, but 97blkz got brainwashed by the Marine Corps, he's still in attack mode and hasnt learned to turn it off. i dont mind the shit talkin because i know its all fun and games. just like i talk about beatin your ass in the ring, its all fun. and that all it would be porsche, if you came over, i would shake your hand before and after we box, no matter who wins, then smoke a bowl with you, since you havent smoked in so long. 97blkz is crazy though, people would have to pull him off before he stopped, and hes a pretty big bitch.

i really appreciate all the replies, even the negative. i cant wait to get on an autocross track. i guess my next thread will be "is a CRX a good car for auto-cross", maybe.

i didnt think auto-x was is cool as it seems. my whole purpose for this post was to prove to andy that he might be able to take me at the track, but not on auto-x. you guys say a camaro is a good auto-x car. so that theory was wrong.

i just want to kick his ass, as you guys can see, hes a big shit talker! and when someone talks shit, i want to prove them wrong. and im trying to prove to andy that a "little" 4 cyl and beat his car. and if any of you guys have 4 cyl's that can take him, let me know. i cant wait to see his ass get beat.

Leonard

02-26-2003, 08:16 PM

autocross is 90% driver

0HP930

02-26-2003, 08:35 PM

Well accord95vtec, I still don't think there is an official FSF date yet, but when it comes you guys should go.

Even if you guys are not sure about participating there is also a good area for spectating to see exactly how it works.

If you do though, most competitive drivers end up regretting not registering and running since you will find yourself wanting to run the course yourself after watching a few people do it.

As far as me being an internet hardass, it does occasionally happen but that is one of the common pastimes here as you are already well aware. Then again I will also talk shit in person as MinGreyCobra and a few other TR members can attest to. Hopefully your buddy 97blkz ends up realizing that too so he can enjoy the TR experience more.

Either way, I would like to take you up on your boxing offer. I have not had to trade blows with anyone since college, and the agressive part of me would enjoy brushing up on those skills and engaging in some fun competion too boot.

accord95

02-26-2003, 09:39 PM

porsche, let me know.

TurboJZA70

02-27-2003, 03:35 AM

I dont really see porche dude as an internet hard ass, there are others that take that title.
Porche dude. in persion i got the inpression that you where kinda layed back, you seemed more like the chill out and chit chat type then the shit talker to me.

0HP930

02-27-2003, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by TurboJZA70
I dont really see porche dude as an internet hard ass, there are others that take that title.
Porche dude. in persion i got the inpression that you where kinda layed back, you seemed more like the chill out and chit chat type then the shit talker to me.
Your observations are correct but occasionally a situation will arise, either on the internet or face to face, where chit chat turns to shit talk.

As my thousands of TR posts and people who know or have met me will attest to its the exception and not the norm. ;)

Loren

02-27-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by 400HP930
As my thousands of TR posts and people who know or have met me will attest to its the exception and not the norm. ;)

Oh, bullshit. Everybody knows that you drive a Porsche. And everybody knows that Porsche drivers are pricks. :lol:

Yeah, I'm talkin' a little shit. At least your Porsche is the correct color. :D

(Hey, isn't it about time we put this thread to bed?)

accord95

02-27-2003, 11:54 AM

agreed

porsche, one more thing. I want to meet you either way, at a track, at some hang out, or you can come over. mainly just to pick your brain. i'd like to talk from everything about racing to politics. just hang out , drink beer, and talk shit to each other. this was my wifes suggestion because shes tired of me typin all the time on TR.

Tits McGee

02-27-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by 400HP930
As my thousands of TR posts and people who know or have met me will attest to its the exception and not the norm. ;)

You've never said anything nice to me....on the board or in person. :D

97blkz

02-27-2003, 09:40 PM

Well auto x is a little different than I imagined! race the clock is cool and all but not that exciting to me I need that other car to pass or pass my ass ! I would still try it out but I do not think I will be a regular! If I had the money i would prefer to run a course with other vehicles! But the risk is to great ! so I apologize for being wrong but It took you guys long enough to say it dammm! 400hp why the fuck would I be scared to hit cones on a track ? Fuck sakes I took a job that paid $748 a month dodging bullets , and cones and your opinions will scare please boys do not flater yourself!

PseudoRealityX

02-28-2003, 05:55 AM

Most people don't start talking shit until they actually know a little about what they're talking about.

0HP930

02-28-2003, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by 97blkz
If I had the money i would prefer to run a course with other vehicles! But the risk is to great ! so I apologize for being wrong but It took you guys long enough to say it dammm! 400hp why the fuck would I be scared to hit cones on a track ? Fuck sakes I took a job that paid $748 a month dodging bullets , and cones and your opinions will scare please boys do not flater yourself!
See, if you really thought that driving a car through some cones was going to be dangerous now you know why I called you a pussy.

Now you have no excuse not to try it.

Once you start trying to get better times than the other vehicles, with the differences sometimes boiling down to the thousandth of a second, you will find that it should satisfy your competitive urges.

The best part is that you can focus 100% on driving your car to the best of your abilities instead of worrying if some other car is going to hit you.

97blkz

02-28-2003, 12:03 PM

I never claimed to be a Auto x expert , I was going from what I had been told about it ! Psuedo you are the man I am suprised I haven't seen you on TV yet , being the pro you are! What are you on sunshine , tnt ??

Zate

02-28-2003, 03:46 PM

lol. Psuedo is the guy who jumps in your car at an AutoX and takes 2 seconds off your best time without even tryin.. very fast driver :)

his old little protege was a nice car.. havent seen him race the new one yet.... i heard he is gettin a RX-8 though.. cos they make mad powa ;) .. lol

0HP930

03-01-2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Zate
lol. Psuedo is the guy who jumps in your car at an AutoX and takes 2 seconds off your best time without even tryin.. very fast driver :)
That is not always the case. ;)

Leonard

03-01-2003, 07:26 AM

Yeah, He wasn't faster than me in my car... I sure as hell had to drive better to catch him though....

PseudoRealityX

03-02-2003, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by MinGreyCobra
Yeah, He wasn't faster than me in my car... I sure as hell had to drive better to catch him though....

The first mustang Ive ever drvien and it took you the entire day to finally beat my frist time out of the box. The 2nd time I drove your car, I had a CAST on my right hand.

Zate never let me drive the WRX... *hint hint*

The ONLY person I"ve never been able to beat with 4 runs is Anthony....

and given a "real" autocross course, I think I would have. No offense to Anthony.

PseudoRealityX

03-02-2003, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by 97blkz
I never claimed to be a Auto x expert , I was going from what I had been told about it ! Psuedo you are the man I am suprised I haven't seen you on TV yet , being the pro you are! What are you on sunshine , tnt ??

What IS your deal? You come in here talking shit about your Camaro, then INSULT me because I did a little trash talking of my own...

Don't like it when you make yourself look foolish? Awww.... *tear*