PT Super Cruiser [Archive]

ACR2NV

01-08-2003, 12:19 AM

mike you can!!! a TD buddy in Wisconsin did it to his PT turbo...has it set at 15psi and says no matter how you try to feather it it roasts them down the road. To put it into perpective he said they drag raced a stock Spirit RT vs the stock PT turbo atx and the RT was ahead a few cars...grainger in use the RT was trailing a few cars.... :? :twisted:

mpbiv

01-08-2003, 12:29 AM

Hmmmm odd, looks like whoever wrote that article doesn't realize they do sell a performance upgrade that radical off the shelf. The Stage III upgrade was 300hp and 300ft-lbs.

ACR2NV

01-08-2003, 04:47 PM

wrong mo-rice see the stage III kit is not available for the PT turbo and this person who graingered his PT turbo obviously is too cheap to want to spend 2k for bigger turbo and other crap included to do what he can do with a grainger and stock setup.....

mpbiv

01-08-2003, 04:54 PM

Its not "made" for the PT but I am pretty sure the major components can be retrofitted. Didn't it have something to do with the downpipe?

FearThe4Doors

01-08-2003, 06:56 PM

so im sure all they did was took the stage 3 kit and made a few 1-off parts for the Super Cruiser

FearThe4Doors

01-08-2003, 06:58 PM

Who's the guy in WI with the PT? Did he leave it at stock boost levels, just added a grainger? Because the designer of the turbo components for the 2.4 turbos told me that they will be MUCH MUCH harder to raise the boost than just a grainger and zener.

mpbiv

01-08-2003, 07:14 PM

bob stockum? His Factory PT Turbo has a Mopar upgrade on it.

ACR2NV

01-09-2003, 01:05 AM

i think Chrysler is out to try to discourage Grainger use but guys keep in mind if it works on a WRX...why cant it work on the rather low tech PT/SRT setup...low tech meaning they havent done anything electronically that could be considered a breakthrough in turbo engines..

mpbiv

01-09-2003, 08:03 AM

If you have ever taken a programming class you know there is more than one way to write a program to do something. That said, ECU programming in the SRT/PT as compared to the WRX are two totally different manufacturers and two totally different ECUs even if they essentially do the same thing. Consequently you cannot say that because something works with the WRX ECU that it is going to work with the SRT/PT ECU. Each will respond differently to changes in input and output.

I don't really agree with the statement that its low tech either. In fact if anything I would say that the SRT/PT ECU is probably more advanced than any of the other stock ECU's out there. This ECU is capable of constantly varying boost to produce a flat torque curve. How many other ECU's out there have boost schedules like the SRT/PT?

ACR2NV

01-09-2003, 10:54 AM

still low tech.......anyhow i understand your take but if the engineers at DCX were right how come my buddy's PT is now set to 15psi constant? nuff said.........

CrazyMoparGirl

01-09-2003, 12:08 PM

everyone calm down and look at this :D

http://www.photof1.com/molson3riv2.JPG

mpbiv

01-09-2003, 12:28 PM

And as usual Lori saves the day

CrazyMoparGirl

01-09-2003, 01:40 PM

:lol:

FearThe4Doors

01-09-2003, 04:21 PM

LOL, werd lori!

as for the 2.4 turbo's electronics, the computer takes inputs from many different sources, not just a few like the TDs. This way, if you try to fool just one sensor, the computer has like 4 other ones telling it whats really going on, and it will override your "trick"

that was straight from the engine designer's mouth

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 12:03 AM

i have heard this too but if thats the case again why is the guy up in Wisconsin set at 15psi???? explain that engineer...thats right you cant cause ur full of shizzit......(not meant towards anyone here , re read and u'll get it)

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 12:36 AM

ok non beleivers numbers will follow cause Dyno program went bonkos when they tested...

http://www.extremepsi.dns2go.com/HTML%20Documents/Meetings/12_28_02.html

mpbiv

01-10-2003, 12:38 AM

Well when it comes to this kind of stuff, I go with whatever comes directly from Chrysler until proven by many otherwise. Lately everything concerning SRT-4/PT's and the 2.4 Turbo have been hearsay (or however you spell it). I have yet to see any conclusive evidence (not to say I am not anticipating it).

flame away :) :flamed:

PS- still waiting for conclusive evidence :)

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 12:51 AM

it can be done it has benn done and i wouldn't have believe it but i did it
as per the car going into a limp mode they are somewhat correct
and I say somewhat heres y if you disconnect the wastgate solenoid and leave it open it will go limp BTW the K in the video thats jeffs car runs 12s. ok back to the pt if you disconnect the wastgate solenoid and leave it open it will go limp, if you install the grainger in line with the original vacuum line to the actuator it work. the grainger is adjusted kinda wierd its almost like its gonna fall apart cuz its set so loose and our bleed is bigger than a normal one its goofy but it works

thats what he said in the AIM convo we had regarding this thread...

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 12:58 AM

his site http://webpages.charter.net/moony/judd/

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 01:20 AM

i just read or heard somewhere about the PT Turbo.. dont they run about 13 or 14 psi stock?

If thats the case, I can see the grainger working since hes really not changing the boost, just having it come on quicker

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by "FearThe4Doors"

i just read or heard somewhere about the PT Turbo.. dont they run about 13 or 14 psi stock?

If thats the case, I can see the grainger working since hes really not changing the boost, just having it come on quicker

where have you been? PT turbos dont even hit 12psi its just a spike to 12 and they tend to hold around 7-8psi. "What ever boost it takes to keep a flat torque band" is what DCX engine wizards say....

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 01:27 AM

no, i know the factory boost was in the double digits

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 01:32 AM

no mr i beleive DCX blindly like Maurice the computer dictates what boost level to achieve the "factory" HP/TQ curves which can vary depending on variables such as weather and what not. Basically the way DCX is ensuring every 2.4 Turbo car performs to its max no matter where it is at geographically is by letting the computer do the thinking as to how much boost when and to vary things according to the variables it reads...undertand? so 7-8psi is what this PT Turbo is seeing in cold weather up in Wisconsin not saying that an FL car should and is in the double digit boost but keep in mind the variables.....

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 01:34 AM

dude, say what you want, but here it is in print from a crediable source...

With its wee little turbine spinning 14 pounds of boost, the dyno dials churn to 215 horsepower at 5000 rpm and 245 pound-feet at 3600 rpm—a gain of 65 horsepower and 83 pound-feet.

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2002/october/200210_shorttake_ptturbo.xml

And that means very well your friend could be getting 15-ish pounds of boost, since thats the factory level. It may peak a little since its getting there so much quicker

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 01:42 AM

which DC software engineer told you about the variable boost settings?

And i believe that the "factory HP/TQ curves" are set to the "corrected" numbers, right?

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 01:52 AM

ok, i must take that last one back... the PT does vary the boost to reach its torque goals... but.. supposedly if you try to "g-valve" it, it will go into a "limp in" mode.

the ecu monitors over 50,000 variables.

mpbiv

01-10-2003, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by "ACR2NV"

no mr i beleive DCX blindly like Maurice
I wouldn't go so far as too say blindy. Just for comparison sakes it takes many tests before a theory becomes a law. Maybe under this one instance at near stock boost level the theory is true that a grainger works, but may not be true for all cases. Do you understand what I am getting at. It takes more than one case to prove any theory, and until the theory is proved to be reasonably true in all cases, is when I will accept it as the full truth.

What you are telling me is someone bled the boost 1psi over the max computer controlled boost setting. Its very viable that the computer allows this to pass as a margin of error.

So at the moment I believe DCX, for they designed the car, they know what its capable of. You have to realize I am not saying they are always correct, that would be blind faith, but what I am saying is currently they have the most knowledge of this engine and design. Consequently their statements hold more water for the time being.

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 02:01 AM

id also like to know how he has the grainger hooked up.. like, physically where

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 10:28 AM

i was promised dyno plots shortly aswell as install pics so i can be cleared :roll:

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by "ACR2NV"

no mr i beleive DCX blindly like Maurice the computer dictates what boost level to achieve the "factory" HP/TQ curves which can vary depending on variables such as weather and what not. Basically the way DCX is ensuring every 2.4 Turbo car performs to its max no matter where it is at geographically is by letting the computer do the thinking as to how much boost when and to vary things according to the variables it reads...undertand? so 7-8psi is what this PT Turbo is seeing in cold weather up in Wisconsin not saying that an FL car should and is in the double digit boost but keep in mind the variables.....

again Jeff and Maurice re read and maybe you'll understand my take better....

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 01:54 PM

hes re read the entire thread and said:

yeah i read everything i'm sick of stupid people christ i quit posting on t dodge on this subject cuz that lifeisdeath guy was always right . yeah or so he thought, no he still thinks hes right but what do i know i'm only the guy that has a setup running

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 02:38 PM

well its a good thing hes so much better than everyone else. I just lost all respect for him. Its good for him to insult people he doesnt even know, and then act like he is god with his g-valved PT. Well if he is sick of people disbelieving, why doesnt he show proof for what he has done? He can poush owf

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 03:25 PM

jeff dont be so anal, plz

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 03:34 PM

how am i being anal? Read yourself what he said.

FearThe4Doors

01-10-2003, 03:41 PM

better yet, invite him in here to talk to us about it. Maurice and I dont want to sit and ridicule him, we're just sitting here trying to figure out how he could do it desipite what the engineers have said. I believe its something to do with not going past the factory level. From the factory, it CAN go to 14psi, just may not always be there

mpbiv

01-10-2003, 04:03 PM

Well that was uncalled for. I never said anything about Chrysler always being right, or about the owner of the PT lying. What I said was there was no conclusive evidence that the grainger valve would work 100% in this application. But instead you accused me of blindy accepting what DCX says as law implying a negative conotation whether or not you meant to.

In my eyes conclusive evidence would not be "he said, she said". I mean honestly I'd like to be trusting and say I could take everyone's word as truth (it'd either have to be a perfect world, or I'd have to be naive), but the truth of the matter is I have never met any of you. I have a reason to be skeptical, and the right to disagree based on my views and knowledge.

I mean really none of this is necesary, there is no reason why we can't have debates and arguments about cars/theory/tech without having name calling or negative implications. Me and my friends do this all the time and there isn't any name calling. I guess some people just lack the tolerance.

Now that I have finished my rant, IBTL :lol:

ACR2NV

01-10-2003, 07:45 PM

oh i intend to rectify this....if the grainger fits you must aquit....lmao

this is what the man says:

If you reread all comments the answers to how it is hooked up is there. Grainger is installed inline with the vacuum actuator. NO lines are unhooked and the computer still has some control. With the grainger installed the car holds steady boost instead of spiking 12 and then falling down to 7-8. Also the car has hit 17 psi with no shut-down except us getting out of the gas due to A/F saying lean. FearThe4Doors I am not a god I am just the guy that has made this work beyond the fact that chrysler techs say you can't do it (maybe I should work at chrysler), you can believe what you want from them but remember they also said that you can't install a grainger or a bleed on older chrysler cars also. So basically PISS OFF I don't want your respect and seriously don't care if I get it.

CrazyMoparGirl

01-10-2003, 10:55 PM

Pissing contests are not needed. Please refrain from it. Everybody has a valid point, How many times have we been told it couldn't be done, and then later, we do it? All anyone is asking for is more info so that they can understand. Either provide it or don't but don't bash us for asking. Thank you have a nice day.

FearThe4Doors

01-11-2003, 03:12 AM

:lol: this is becoming too funny

everyone is acting like gold was discovered and must be kept a secret. Please excuse Maurice and I from asking questions and trying to correct what we have learned on the subject in the past.

and FYI, chrysler never said you couldnt put bleeds on a car.. they just recommended that you dont.

I feel like im talking to the Wizard of Oz...

ACR2NV

01-11-2003, 09:32 AM

sorry guys i was asked to relay the message to you all...*middle man*

CrazyMoparGirl

01-12-2003, 08:41 AM

next time someone wants you to be the middle man offer up aim instead thanks :D

ACR2NV

01-12-2003, 08:53 PM

ehhh Jeff isnt on there much and Maurice is always day dreaming about "turbo this and all that jazz"....lmao

mpbiv

01-12-2003, 09:54 PM

Day dreaming......maybe.....always turbo.......nope. Thinking of interesting things to try with my tall deck block when I have the K converted to turbo. At that point I will have a car and extra parts laying around so I want to try something. Here's an example of what I was talking about to someone else earlier:

-Tall Deck 2.5 block (1.51 rod ratio)
-Retrofitted with DOHC neon head
-Full exhaust treatment (I am thinking 2.25-2.5")
-Individual Throttle Bodies
-High compression (thinking there might be a way to get neon high comp aftermarket pistons in there)
-Custom calibrated 2.5 computer with 6400rpm redline (better rod ratio than common block 2.5 so I think slighty higher redline is ok).
-UDP, Magnacores, other odds and ends.

Of course if I do get that far I am going to need something to put it in. I am thinking maybe a Turismo because I want something light and sporty but I don't really like Chargers. But also because my Dad used to have a black Turismo back in the 80's (and FYI we used to have a 89 4dr White Reliant which somehow played a part in why I have the Aries)

I know some of you would probably says that crazy or not worth the time, but I have a fascination with trying something new. I think I would like it even if it wasn't fast or producing gobs of power :) (not that it would matter because the turbo k is my first project).

CrazyMoparGirl

01-12-2003, 10:08 PM

Crazy? Not worth the time? I've never heard that before :lol:

mpbiv

01-12-2003, 10:23 PM

Sorry I guess I was thinking of my non Mopar friends :)

My best friend still thinks I am wasting my time with this car. He's hardcore chevy and despite that we get along well. Just a few months ago he got a 350 crate motor for his Camino and now have the old 305 sitting in the garage, and everytime I go over there either him or his dad tell me about some cheap chevy camaro in the area that needs an engine and how I could put my friends old 305 in it.

ACR2NV

01-12-2003, 10:38 PM

"dream dream dream...dream...." too bad i wasnt around in the 50s but that song comes to mind rather quickly...

CrazyMoparGirl

01-12-2003, 10:48 PM

that song is about a girl not a car :p

mpbiv

01-12-2003, 10:54 PM

I can guarantee you this K car will be turbo, not now, probably not in a few months, maybe in a year, but its going to happen. I may not be as fast as others at achieving things but I do get them done if I really want them. I kid you not this is no dream, I am on a mission from God, he sent me a message with that second rod bearing.

mpbiv

01-12-2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by "CrazyMoparGirl"

that song is about a girl not a car :p
Hahahaha :lol: :werd:

mpbiv

01-12-2003, 10:58 PM

PAGE PWN

Back to the ole days of whoring!!!!

ACR2NV

01-13-2003, 12:37 AM

Originally posted by "CrazyMoparGirl"

that song is about a girl :p

Got one Maurice...??.... :o :o i forgot sorry.... :lol:

mpbiv

01-13-2003, 12:43 AM

Hey stop ragging on me or the kamikazee Hyundai of death will hunt you down!!!!!!!!!!!

:twisted:

FearThe4Doors

01-13-2003, 01:52 AM

hey man, i have a few tall blocks here if you want one for the guinea pig. I like the sound of that N/A buildup.. except.. were you gonna get billit (or something) rods made? Those tall block rods aint too beefy..

Let me know when you're up for a shopping spree at CDM

mpbiv

01-13-2003, 07:57 AM

Yeah they aren't that beefy but for the kinda output you'd be making NA I don't think its really too much of an issue. Plus power and torque will peak higher in the rpm range than on a turbo probably. I don't mind using my old tall deck as the guinea pig. If I do start a project like that though it won't be until I have the K running again with a turbo engine.

Currently its looking like I'll be checking out CDM during Spring Break. Do they happen to keep any type of inventory of the cars that they have in the yard? I was thinking I would call them before I drive from Orlando just to get an idea on how many 89+ dodges they have. I am not sure how I am actually going to transport an engine if I find what I am looking for. I might see if I can borrow the truck from my uncle but at the same time if I do that, I wouldn't want to return empty handed if I cannot find what I am looking for. I wouldn't want to have to borrow the truck more than once either.

I also had an insane idea to split the block in half and see if someone could help me man handle it into the hatch of the Hyundai. I am not sure the rear suspension would like that much, and I know that raw 93hp 1.5L wouldn't like it much either. Probably not a good idea.

So thats pretty much my biggest dilema.

FearThe4Doors

01-13-2003, 12:19 PM

Well--------

theres a few things ive learned about using the 2.5 for a high compression engine. I'll share those when/if the day comes for you.

CDM has no real inventory, just if you happen to get someone on the phone that knows what cars he saw come in. But with dodges, they have no idea usually. It would be best to send a scout (me) to inventory the place first.

You may also want to come to my house or something and tear the engine down to make sure everything's ok in it.. saves you the trip of coming back to return it. And the Hyundai would probably pull it.. the engine cant weigh more than 2 friends in the back seat, or 1 big friend! Just dont try to get up to 60 quick!

mpbiv

01-13-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by "FearThe4Doors"

And the Hyundai would probably pull it.. the engine cant weigh more than 2 friends in the back seat, or 1 big friend! Just dont try to get up to 60 quick!
That was pretty much logic behind it but I have never really tried this before. I try getting up to 60 quick all the time loaded or unloaded but that never happens anyways :lol:

I'll have to pull the carpet cover out of the back and throw down something. The engine will definitely have to be split in half though otherwise it would be too heavy to lift and using a hoist probably wouldn't work with the hatch clearance.

High comp 2.5 = mild detonation? Weak #1 ring lands? Hmmm

FearThe4Doors

01-13-2003, 12:48 PM

the biggest thing with using the tall block, is that with the rods being so long, the pistons spends quite a bit of time at TDC (and just before and just after).. the increased time it spends there, and then adding in high compression, causes cylinder pressures to go extremely high. Im unsure how high they can go without causing much detonation or bent rods.. :-/

mpbiv

01-13-2003, 03:18 PM

You mean piston dwell? I would figure that has something more to do with the throw on the crank than the overall rod length, but I guess not.

FearThe4Doors

01-13-2003, 03:52 PM

picture it.... as the piston approaches TDC, the rod is still angled to the left, lets say. It takes much longer for the crank to come around and swing the rod to the other side, before the piston starts is way down. I think it probably has to do with both rod and stroke, but i was explained that the long rod in those engines definatly makes the issue worse

mpbiv

02-18-2003, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by ACR2NV
hes re read the entire thread and said:
yeah i read everything i'm sick of stupid people christ i quit posting on t dodge on this subject cuz that lifeisdeath guy was always right . yeah or so he thought, no he still thinks hes right but what do i know i'm only the guy that has a setup running

Speaking of that lifeisdeath guy, I have been informed he might be giving me a mouthful on SRTforums soon.

http://www.srtforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3574#3574

Just curious to know, anyone else agree the SRT-4 is a neon? We'll see if he replies but from the few times I have seen him post he seems to think is the fucking walking bible of all things :lol:

leadfootedfool

02-18-2003, 08:30 PM

So now the srt isn't a neon?? wtf

technical smechnical i need a beer

(and besides, dodge is a bunch of dumbasses if they wanted to build a 4 dr performance car from scratch, its a damn neon!!!)

leadfootedfool

02-18-2003, 08:31 PM

the only people getting really pissy about there super car being called a neon are the ones that must have already ordered it or something

mpbiv

02-19-2003, 12:02 AM

Maurice's SRT-4 theory: those who deny the SRT-4 is a neon are ashamed to admit they would like or even consider buying a neon.

Whats sad is the bad reputation given to the neon is highly exaggerated, which is why people are skeptical when you say anything good about the neon, and why people don't want to acknowledge the SRT-4 as a neon because that would be to make it a bad car by association.

mpbiv

02-19-2003, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by leadfootedfool
So now the srt isn't a neon?? wtf

technical smechnical i need a beer

(and besides, dodge is a bunch of dumbasses if they wanted to build a 4 dr performance car from scratch, its a damn neon!!!)
Couldn't agree more. The neon is great but if they really wanted to build a high performance 4dr they would have started from scratch.

Reality>Technicality

This holds true in 99.9999999.......% of all cases. The SRT-4 is based off the Neon so heavily that in reality it doesn't make much sense how someone can deny that it is Neon SRT-4 :?

BIG_Truck_Driver

02-19-2003, 12:17 AM

Wow, that kid is fucking retarded, Dodge guys, welcome your first ricer NEON SRT-4 owner.

FearThe4Doors

02-19-2003, 02:22 AM

but is he a ricer? I mean, the car IS fast..

maybe he's just a motorhead poser.. or just an idiot

leadfootedfool

02-19-2003, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by FearThe4Doors
but is he a ricer? I mean, the car IS fast..

maybe he's just a motorhead poser.. or just an idiot

The car is fast as hell. So is the new acr in a slightly different way. I'd take either one, but if there are idiots like that about the srt, I don't know if i'd want one just because of association with the dumbfuck.

leadfootedfool

02-19-2003, 09:55 AM

Maybe I need to post on there and say my car isn't a neon because of all the things I've changed.

I've changed everything but the body kit, intercooler, and equal length half shafts. The rest of the stuff is on his approved list of items that make it not a neon.

leadfootedfool

02-19-2003, 10:02 AM

Ok, last thing...

Originally posted by dumbfuck on srt board
or the auto-x guys? they already have the acr in auto-x. why did they need input from them if it is the same car?

Maybe, just maybe, an acr with a turbo handles a little bit different than a regualar acr. Highly doubtful though.

mpbiv

02-19-2003, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by leadfootedfool
Ok, last thing...

Maybe, just maybe, an acr with a turbo handles a little bit different than a regualar acr. Highly doubtful though.
Yeah that whole quote didn't make much sense to me either. Just because they already had the ACR which was intended for that type thing didn't mean they had it refined completely. There is always room for improvement. Also don't understand what makes him think that just because they were called in for their input, that they didn't apply any of those changes to the other models.

Moreover Chrysler has the racing experiance to build there own cars from the ground up. The only reason they would bring in auto-x people is to find out there experiance with a currently existing car and refine it. Hence they brought them in to share their views and experiance with the ACR and find out what they can refine on the neon for the SRT-4 package.

FearThe4Doors

02-19-2003, 01:18 PM

If i ever get an SRT4, im gonna order some NEON emblems and stick them on the car right above the SRT4... LOL

CrazyMoparGirl

02-19-2003, 06:45 PM

SRT4 is a Neon WTF is wrong with people.

Back to the PT Relentless sells the SRT4 manifold and turbo as a direct replacement for the PT, however it's slightly worked over

FearThe4Doors

02-19-2003, 06:52 PM

yup, i saw that too... :thumbsup:

too bad its still a crappy design.. prolly the RP unit is cheaper than MP Stage 2 though

BIG_Truck_Driver

02-20-2003, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by FearThe4Doors
but is he a ricer? I mean, the car IS fast..

maybe he's just a motorhead poser.. or just an idiot

By my previous comment, I was referring to the ricer mentality, not the car being ricey per sey.

and I'll take page 4 please.