Fender Braces

[longfellow2]

I made some today and am very happy with the results.

Noises behind the dash have gone away almost completly. Steering response, Turn in, breaking and over all control have all imporoved noticeably. The front end of the car feels even more planted.

I have noticed a fair amount of flexing in the rear of the chassis now, which in turn is causing a bit more over steer than I would like. But I have only 1 small improvised strut brace back there, so that will be adressed shortly.

Not beautiful to look at, but they get the job done well and they dont weigh very much, (5.5lbs each side) also didnt want to fork out 250$ for a set.
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k234/initialkoncept/DSCF0118.jpg

Current Suspension/Chassis mods are:
-KTS coil-overs with 8/6k springs
-Circuit sport front strut bar
-DYI temp Rear strut bar
-Fender braces

Next up is foam insulating hollow areas in the cabbin/rocker panals rear strutbar and subframe brace.

[Racer_Jim]

Awesome!
I'm slowly doing the same thing to my 300zx. Spot welding the chassis and frame bracing where is seems flimsy/needed.
A tip on the foam though, don't foam where you need to weld later... it is NOT fun. lol

[longfellow2]

Thanks. Im focusing on Suspension/steering during the summer. Its getting a complete $2k overhaul.

[senor honda]

Longfellow,
I applaud your efforts in making your own parts. There are some people on here who might choose to hate and criticise you for saving $250,
instead of spending for the high dollar setup, but I am not one of those people.

Almost every week I myself, am fabricating something for someone, pretty often something that cannot be bought from an aftermarlet company.....
so bro, if you want to post up some pics, that may help out other people
and maybe provoke people's minds to find creative solutions to
car problems....-Bob

[norachelhere]

I wouldn't have thought that, that part of the chassis would flex that much.
The noise part I would believe, but the actual flexing part, I just don't get...

[norachelhere]

never mind, I thought about it some more and I see how it would improve the firmness...

[senor honda]

Believe it! Honda's flex.

I have a micro switch installed in my driver's side
door. When I make a sweeping right hander, the warning buzzer tells me the micro switch is opening....I suspect due to the car flexing, since it will stop buzzing once I get the car going straight again.-Bob

Oh, and by the way, folks.....the foam that is sprayed into the subframe as a stiffener, is NOT the stuff in the spray cans from Home depot or Lowes. If you are going to foam the subframe, get the foam from the dealer.

[longfellow2]

Grainger sells it. Its expensive.

Ive yet to jack the car up but thats the tell tale sign of how much the front end flexes under load.

[killerMikeD]

so um what kinda foam are you all using? not great stuff i hope? 3m makes great automotive foam products, for reducing noise vibration and harshness, and well as some types of rigid structual foam. i can get the product numbers if anyone likes, just send me a pm.

Also im not sure if u drive that car as a daily, or if you know that while you are improving the handling and limiting the flex of the unibody structure, you are also greatly reducing the collision absorbing properties of the upper front rails, just something to think about if its a daily, or you drive around any family or friends. With those braces the energy will be directed into the passenger compartment instead of around it.

but if not driven on the street please disreguard - mike

[longfellow2]

Its my only car. Those are also the only braces of that type that will be used on the car. If anything Im betting it will shear the bolts off at the doors, since thats what the back brackets are bolted to. It would take a serious head on impact to have that bracket affect anything that far back, and with that kind of impact I would be in trouble regardless. Passenger side also still has the airbag.

I might end up putting in a 6 point cage as well.

Foam is a 2 part expanding foam with a 5:1 expansion rate. Its similar to what infinity uses in their cars. Can you send me info on the 3m stuff?

[killerMikeD]

Well i do agree that it would take a major collision for it to affect anything that far back, but when is it that you get to decide how hard of a collision you will have? since they are that far back your right it is less likely to cause issues, the convoluted and crush zones are further towards the front on the rails, while your braces are by the long bead like zones that are actually there to make that area stronger, reguardless the braces may still affect air bag timing, but atleast you are aware of the situation, some people are not.

Anyway heres is the Foam that we use to replace the factory foam on collision damaged cehicles. It is 3M pillar foam.

This rigid foam expands to 10 times its original volume. It is really designed to flow in and fill to add strength and eliminate wind noise. This product can be used to replace OEM rigid foams. Foam time is 1 minute, work time is 5 minutes, and cure time is one hour.

- mike

3M Automix Pillar Foam 200 ml Cartridge (http://www.levineautoparts.com/3maupifo200m.html)

[longfellow2]

Applied Energy Products & Sales (http://shop.appliednrg.com/product.sc;jsessionid=AB5A1E3010DD276142EBE2859ADF E7F5.qscstrfrnt03?categoryId=3&productId=31)

^Thats what I was going to use, and I know a few people that have already completed it using that and it seems to work out well.

But the 3m stuff is more expensive since I would have to use the gun. Thanks for the link though.

I usually never have passengers in my car, and if I do I make sure they wear their seatbelt. The Airbag sensor is in the bumper support so I dont think the braces will cause any problems with it.

[senor honda]

Longfellow,
I would say you pretty much thought it out...-Bob

I'm starting to think about foaming those braces that you made
for a little more rigidity.....lightweight.....stronger.....why not?-Bob

[Outkasted24]

Very Nice Modification http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v78/Outkasted24/Smileys/appl.gif

How long did it take to make?
Mild steel and Mig?



It's amazing how much flex there really is in these cars.
2 cars ago I purchased these things called "Frame Locks" for dirt cheap.
They retailed for $200 and some kid was selling them for $50 on a car forum.
I thought "what the hell, for $50 it's worth the money to see if they really do work.

All I can say was, Holy Shit what a difference !!!! There was so much play in the steering response before the locks were installed, Who knew !!!

Here's the product I'm talking about.
Honda Civic 1996-2000 Aftermarket Frame Locks - Korbach Performance (http://www.korbachperformance.com./honda_civic_1996-2000.htm)

[longfellow2]

I want the tubing to flex under load a little or it will probably cause stress cracks or break the welds.

Thanks. Its all mild steel and I used a mig welder with C02/argon shielding gas. The took about 4 hours each. I was going slow and double checking everything.

Where do those frame locks bolt on? the look interesting.

I really need to tighten up the rear suspension now, I can feel it flex more than the front and under certain loads its really apparent.

[Outkasted24]

I want the tubing to flex under load a little or it will probably cause stress cracks or break the welds.

Thanks. Its all mild steel and I used a mig welder with C02/argon shielding gas. The took about 4 hours each. I was going slow and double checking everything.

Where do those frame locks bolt on? the look interesting.

I really need to tighten up the rear suspension now, I can feel it flex more than the front and under certain loads its really apparent.

They only made them for EG & EKs, But had a slew of other models on the drawing board as of '06. Don't know if the ever got off the ground with production, but it's worth visiting their site and e-mailing them questions.

These frame locks bolt the outer edge of the radiator support and the bumper support together with the subframe.
http://www.korbachperformance.com./images/Frame-Locks-fascia.jpg

I'm sure you could modify something yourself that will get the job done for a fraction of the price, But when these guys produced these things, The stumbled onto a sure thing when it comes down to gripping steering response.

[longfellow2]

Ah, looks interesting. My car dosnt really need to be braced there, but I do want a tension rod brace. those are really nice for reducing understeer.

[Mars_302]

ive been wanting to make those for my mustang. No one makes them at all for my car. Though I wanna do a bolt on design

[longfellow2]

ive been wanting to make those for my mustang. No one makes them at all for my car. Though I wanna do a bolt on design

I tried to make a bolt on one but it failed. The problem on my car is that Its a tube and I cant get to the back side of it to put a nut on. Aftermarket ones for my car use a peice of sheet metal that bolts where the fenders do in the engine bay then wraps down the side.

I figured I have no reason to remove them ever, and you cant see them so I just welded it. It made it alot easier.

[CBURKE]

I am looking into makeing this as well

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/ARACENHONDA/untitled.jpg

[MiDiablo]

ive been wanting to make those for my mustang. No one makes them at all for my car. Though I wanna do a bolt on design

Mars, is something like this really necessary on Mustang's like ours w/the cages in them? :dunno:

[BLUE2KSS]

I am looking into makeing this as well

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/ARACENHONDA/untitled.jpg

move that vertical bracing as far back as you possibly can for a stronger overall frame. Making it meet at the rear nodes would be the best solution

Just a little FYI

[longfellow2]

Mars, is something like this really necessary on Mustang's like ours w/the cages in them? :dunno:

No its not necessary but it helps, Unless your cage goes through your firewall and into the engine bay.

[rockinthEK4door]

nice work done I was wanting to do them on mine but wasnt sure on if they did anything.. Rep'd!!

[MiDiablo]

No its not necessary but it helps, Unless your cage goes through your firewall and into the engine bay.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/MiDiablo/My%20Vehicles/FrankenStang/100_2450.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b209/MiDiablo/My%20Vehicles/FrankenStang/100_2456.jpg

:bigthumb:

[longfellow2]

lol that works, does that tie into the fire wall also?

[MiDiablo]

Comes out of the main hoop's down bars (down through the speaker holes in the dash), through the firewall to the back side of the strut tower, then the second piece runs from the front side of the strut tower down to the frame rail.

Tons of pics and info here:

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/chassis-suspension-tech/489579-fox-body-coupe-chasis-work-racing-innovations-fl.html

:mullet:

[longfellow2]

Nice, What are you building the car for? I was thinking about doing something similar when I get another car for a daily.

[MiDiablo]

I'm building the car for straight up kill mode. :naughty:

My goals have changed a few times. I have decided to go blow-thru turbo carb on the car. So I'm going to be down and out even longer now :mullet: But, that's what life's all about... The quest to perfection, right :dunno: Someday!

I'll be excited to go single digits, wheels up, tracking straight, and be able to do it consistantly and efficiently... :D