Good Shocks, cheap springs...?!?!?!

[edmel89]

I have KYB Gr2 shocks on my 97 civic sedan, and sprint 2 inch lowering springs. the springs didnt lower my car enough for my taste, and i wanna go lower, but tight on money, I want to buy those cheap ebay coil overs. now everyone tells me that as long as i have good shocks i'll be ok, is this true???

Heres a pic of the KYB shocks with Sprint lowering springs, and the pic in my sig is how it looks.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q272/edmel89/DSC09238.jpg

[Outkasted24]

Reguardless of the type of shock you are running, If you buy a cheap spring/coilover, you'll get a bouncy ride, And what's even more encourging about this problem, The Lower you go, The Ride get's worse...... believe it or not.

All shocks are capable of blowing one day or another, especially when abusing them by shortening their travel (slamming the car's ride height) and/or not keeping the bump-stops installed (insurance).

If money is that tight Bro, your almost better off spending what little cash you were planning on buying the Ebay coilovers with, and just buy a set of used name brand springs from someone here on TR.

sell your sprints and call it a day, Ride off into the sunset with a dropped car and less bounce without loosing money.

Just My $.02 , ;)

[edmel89]

thanks, ne one have ne more advice?

[Outkasted24]

Worst case, You could just cut the springs you have now.
Take a coil off and be done with it.
You'll get a worse ride with cut springs, but it'll still be better then the bounce you'll have with a cheap ebay coilover sleeve kit.

[Th1nk]

Ebay coilovers and springs tend to get premature "sagging" because the springs aren't cold wound, or shot peened, and usually not of the best materials, the springs will get soft and before you know it, your front end is lower than the rear.

+1 for Outkasted24: look for some used springs from someone on TR, South Florida Drifters, or even Nico.

G/l man keep us updated on what you find.

[edmel89]

now you guys mean cut my stock springs? or the sprint springs i have now?

[treekiller]

Don't cut your springs,

Yes a Cheap ebay coil over kit will lower your car more, but it's not like a civic has a million feet of suspension travel to begin with. going any lower then a decent lowering spring is only really done correctly with a PROPER coil over shock and spring, something that shortens the shocks body, and has internal bump stops. there are a few ways to do this and do this right.
but by far the best and least expensive, (and one that gives the best result) is to take off what you have, sell it online and install something like a Tein Basic or K-sport Kontrol kit.
eBay Motors: KSPORT KONTROL PRO FULL COILOVER HONDA CIVIC 92-95 EG ! (item 330211742857 end time Feb-22-08 23:05:56 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KSPORT-KONTROL-PRO-FULL-COILOVER-HONDA-CIVIC-92-95-EG_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em127QQcategor yZ33582QQihZ014QQitemZ330211742857QQrdZ1QQsspagena meZWD10V)
or
eBay Motors: TEIN TYPE BASIC COILOVER DAMPER HONDA Civic 96-00 EM/EJ (item 160209230192 end time Feb-22-08 12:40:30 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TEIN-TYPE-BASIC-COILOVER-DAMPER-HONDA-Civic-96-00-EM-EJ_W0QQitemZ160209230192QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item16 0209230192)

I sold Tein products for years and they make a good affordable product, I honestly feel you get more for your money with the K-sport, the solid mounts are nice if you want to keep your stock suspension as spares. It's a BIG 48mm high pressure Monotube damper that is really good at reigning in the undulations in the pavement. sell the complete current setup for most if not all of the coil over cost. There is a lot of guys up north that CANT go that low, or just don't know any better.

Now going much lower then 2 inches is going to futz with your camber curve, since the control arm assy. is working outside of it's intended range, you are lucky Double A arm Honda's are pretty resilient to over-lowering. so if you are running Zero toe you won't experience REALLY bad tire wear, but if you want to add the adjust ability, Camber upper arms are pretty cheap... and you won't be running on the inside edge of the tire every time you launch.

eBay Motors: Ksport Front camber kit for 92-95 Civic 94-01 Integra (item 290207293597 end time Feb-23-08 13:45:21 PST) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ksport-Front-camber-kit-for-92-95-Civic-94-01-Integra_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33581QQihZ019QQ itemZ290207293597QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

and if you ever do want to race, K-sport uses American standard 2.5" race springs, they are cheap and plentiful and never loose their value. and can be had in 100-1500 lbs per inch.

I tell the same thing to everyone, you will Swap , replace, and or blow 2-3 sets of shocks and springs and NEVER be happy with the car, or just spend the money once, on some good components and use it near forever. K sport will exchange the inserts pretty cheap, (which at that point you can revalve) or you can do what I do and rebuild them yourself. (this is not suggested for a first timer, but not HARD)

I sell k-sport but I'm not trying to win your business, to be honest I would have to sell them at cost to match the ebay prices. but I have Competeded on them, they work, and don't break... .97G on the skidpad at tire-rack on street tires. and that's with a top-heavy solid axle Sentra. a well dialed in Honda on Kontrols should be WAY over 1G Lateral grip.

For me to set up a typical car, on the track, with a Pyrometer, (which also helps find ultimate tire pressures) it is 1 full day for $500 but lower the car so you have a few inches of travel, set the toe to zero and you'll be pretty close but knowing you can corner-balance the car, or just crank up the rear shocks and get all drifto in a FWD car at will is worth every penny.

the knowledge is available on the internet, buy the good equipment and you will learn how to set the car up to do whatever you want it to. with shocks and springs, non adustable crap or worse cut springs. your just shooting yourself in the foot of ever getting the car "RIGHT" and let me tell you few things corner like a Honda done "RIGHT" it's an investment, since when you sell, wreck, or trade the car, you can usually get $450 back for the suspension when you sell it.

[Outkasted24]

:cool:
Great Advice, info, and links.

Repped!

[Th1nk]

+1 Great advice - Repped

[senor honda]

Everyone has their own opinion.

If your KYB's are working, keep them.

My Mazda club guys like K-Sports as a shock, since they are adjustable
for street driving and then harder for track.

When you can get name brand springs and shocks at ebay prices,
you got a deal. Off brand springs and shocks at ebay prices are not a good deal.

Springs that are too hard cause loss of grip in the turns except on really smooth pavement, that's why I prefer spring rates close to stock, since that is what the car was designed for.

There is far more to handling than setting a car low..........

People who don't know how to measure a suspension don't know how to cut stock springs, that's why they think it cannot be done. My personal car has cut stock coils which lower it by 3" and you can see the photographic proof when you see me at the meets.

A spring that is too short is too short whether you paid $300 for it,
or cut it too short all by yourself. Cut springs don't destroy suspensions, Springs that are too short destroy suspensions. People who don't know how to measure a suspension usually cut them too short, and then claim it cannot be done.

I am the only person on Tampa Racing who knows how to carefully measure a suspension and cut springs without blown shocks, without beaten up suspensions and without eaten tires. -Bob

Maybe we can take a look at your suspension and see if you can safely go lower.

[kumar.]

^ senor honda, please pm me w/ info about lowering the car by cutting the springs. I have an '02 TL Type-S that needs to be lowered ASAP!

[senor honda]

Kumar,
Enable your private messaging, if you want a pm.

There are at least 6 types of springs, and I don't know which ones your car has. I am willing to look at them and after some measuring, I can
give a recommendation. Sometimes you may need a camber kit,
depending on how low you want to go. -Bob

^ senor honda, please pm me w/ info about lowering the car by cutting the springs. I have an '02 TL Type-S that needs to be lowered ASAP!

[Outkasted24]

People who don't know how to measure a suspension don't know how to cut stock springs, that's why they think it cannot be done. My personal car has cut stock coils which lower it by 3" and you can see the photographic proof when you see me at the meets.

A spring that is too short is too short whether you paid $300 for it,
or cut it too short all by yourself. Cut springs don't destroy suspensions, Springs that are too short destroy suspensions. People who don't know how to measure a suspension usually cut them too short, and then claim it cannot be done.

I am the only person on Tampa Racing who knows how to carefully measure a suspension and cut springs without blown shocks, without beaten up suspensions and without eaten tires. -Bob

Maybe we can take a look at your suspension and see if you can safely go lower.

kumar, Please do not sink to the level of cutting your springs, especially on an flawless Acura TL.
Once your stock suspension has been rigged up and cut, It's Only a short time before your out buying new shocks...... because both the ride is unbearable, and your tires are prematurely wearing every other row of tread.
With bad shocks your car will no longer stick to the road the way it's supposed to :nono:

And Bob, I told myself to just stay out of your way and let you preach what you want to about suspension, However... Now you are just stretching the truth and I must interject.

There Is No Way .........In Hell....... That Your Car is Lowered 3" !!!!!!
I did see your car at the meet last weekend and there is barely any drop what so ever, Maybe your getting your inches mixed up with your millimeters......... Or your just delusional.
Why don't you take some time and read the post that I stickied in this section,....... that was created by "Treekiller", You may learn something about new suspension set-ups.

As for shocks not blowing on a lowered car, BuLL Shit!!!
If your car is lowered anymore then 2" from factory, and you hit one hardcore bump (w/ or w/o a Bumpstop installed) Your chances of bottoming out the shock are extremely good.
All it takes is one time and your stock shock/strut is done.

I could come up with a million and one more reasons not to cut your stock springs.
Kumar, If your interested in lowering your vehicle, Please PM me and I can walk you through the purchase of an inexpensive set of Springs and shocks.


-Jeff ;)

[edmel89]

wow, lots of feed back, i am ready to get new coilovers, im looking for used coilovers, if anyone knows of any, let me know, ebay coilovers are my last opition worse come to worse.

But my KYB GR2 shocks are good for lowering right? Honestly I am happy with my ride hieght i just want the front a little lower, then I'll be happy, I realy just want new front springs that can lower my front an inch more.

I would just cut the Sprint springs in the front a little, but even now they seem like there too short for the shocks, you guys understand? If I cut a coil off the springs will be to short to fit properly on my shocks.

Any advice for this?

I see no point in getting new rear springs if my height is fine, i just want the front a lil lower. Thanks so much for all the help guys.

[edmel89]

anyone know about maxspeed coilovers? good brand? ok brand?

[Outkasted24]

Maxspeed = Junk IMO.
Very cheap product made of very cheap materials.

If you want a set of cheap Coilovers, I have a brand spankin new set of Chrome w/ Blue springs.
They are Ebay specials and will sell for real cheap. ;) PM me if interested.

[edmel89]

how cheap? keep in mind there like $20 on ebay, lol pm me

[treekiller]

while I reccomend cheap coil over kits as a soloution to lowering springs in the right application. keep in mind dampers tuned for stock springs (GR-2 or other stock type replacement) just will not cut it. since most of these kits make up for reduced travel with spring rates double or triple the factory spring. while they may not blow if not over-lowered.. but your gonna have trouble getting the car to behave.

ones tuned for "sport springs" are the bare minimum I would reccomend. you can pick up a good set of shocks for a honda for $450 (bilstein sport) which is a high pressure monotube with a built in bumpstop. that should do Okay. but I've said before for not much more you can get a proper suspension kit. from K-sport or D2 or Megan... lower the car and keep spring preload. I personally like the K-sport since it's what I use but any of the entry level kits will perform well. make sure you find one with adjustable mounts. so you can lower the vehicle without loosing travel.

[edmel89]

while I reccomend cheap coil over kits as a soloution to lowering springs in the right application. keep in mind dampers tuned for stock springs (GR-2 or other stock type replacement) just will not cut it. since most of these kits make up for reduced travel with spring rates double or triple the factory spring. while they may not blow if not over-lowered.. but your gonna have trouble getting the car to behave.

ones tuned for "sport springs" are the bare minimum I would reccomend. you can pick up a good set of shocks for a honda for $450 (bilstein sport) which is a high pressure monotube with a built in bumpstop. that should do Okay. but I've said before for not much more you can get a proper suspension kit. from K-sport or D2 or Megan... lower the car and keep spring preload. I personally like the K-sport since it's what I use but any of the entry level kits will perform well. make sure you find one with adjustable mounts. so you can lower the vehicle without loosing travel.


WOWOWOWOWOW your telling me that me KYB GR2 shocks arent for lowered aplications???? I got them cuz I thought they were...

[treekiller]

I am sorry they are Just stock upgrade Replacements, perhaps with mildly better valving. while wearing a "sporting" name GR-2's are anything but. Even their AGX adjustable is not damped well even at it's highest setting. once again better then stock and if your using a mild lowering spring it'll work just fine. but if you want to race. or have aspirations of a tunable car it's not the solution for you. Most of those shocks will work with the typical "lowering" spring. but I've had the KYB's not work with simple off the shelf Tein S-tech springs which were very low. (the US spec ones are better now) now keep in mind, your going with a stiffer spring and a damper that's not worn out like a stok one after 50,000 miles the car is going to feel 1000x better. it won't be "good" but you can live with it.. until you decide to get a proper suspension kit. and then you'll be blown away.

I just hate to see people upgrade in stages, since I did it, and bought springs, then shocks, then sleeves, then better shocks, then a real coil over kit. eventually I spent 3x what I would have if I personally just bit the bullet. Now that being said if you ever do pickup motorsport the next step up is HUGE from a cheap suspension kit, to a racing suspension. you start adding double, triple adjustable and external nitrogen cylinders. things get pricey QUICK... but the cheap kits are perfect for 99% of everybody that does not get a paycheck for their racing.

We used to say around my shop KYB stood for "Keeps You Bouncing"

http://www.kyb.com/images/prod_lg_hl_1.gif
GR-2® Premium Shocks and Struts are specially designed to provide a smooth, secure ride with excellent control for drivers who are looking for ride comfort and improved handling. With its patented check valve, the GR-2® Premium Shocks and Struts always maintain excellent performance under even the roughest conditions. It also provides comfort and control that is often better than original equipment. GR-2® Premium Shocks and Struts are available for virtually all vehicles on the road today.

KYB used to market a decent product under the "GAB" name but it's been years since I've seen them on the shelf at even the best performance shops.

[edmel89]

crap.... lol i didnt know that, i should of gone with a dropzone coilover and suspension kit... dammit!!!!

[chucho501]

ill trade you my hnr springs for those i promise ur car will be slamed !!!!

[angelgoya]

dude just go with some stance GR they are soooo good :)

[senor honda]

"My personal car has cut stock coils which lower it by 3" and you can see the photographic proof when you see me at the meets."...is what I said.

I don't object that a person chooses to ignore the photograph of my Accord next to a stock Accord that pretty clearly shows a 3" difference from the lower edge of the trunk to the ground.
------------------------------------------------------------
I have said before that it is not a "cut" spring, but a spring that is too short which eats tires, destroys shocks, etc...........and when a person installs aftermarket springs that are too short, you will get the same results as if you cut it too short yourself.

Once again, it is a spring that is "too short" that damages a suspension. etc, not specifically the method that a person used to obtain a too-short spring.

I seem to be the only one on TR who knows how to measure a suspension
and lower a car so the tires are not eaten, the suspension is not beat up and the shocks are not blown, and my personal car is the proof.

When someone else claims they can tell exactly the height of two cars when only one car is present, I find that to be
...........an amazing claim..........-Bob


There Is No Way .........In Hell....... That Your Car is Lowered 3" !!!!!!
I did see your car at the meet last weekend and there is barely any drop what so ever, Maybe your getting your inches mixed up with your millimeters......... Or your just delusional.-Jeff ;)

[senor honda]

Stay out of the way......?
Actually, when a person looks through a particular forum, they can see multiple examples where my opposing point of view
has been deleted as "off topic" by someone misusing their over-control as
suspension moderator to insure their view is the only one heard.

Since I install aftermarket lowering springs as well as shorten
stock springs to lower a car, and since I know enough about
suspensions and how to measure them, I can see both sides.

People who want to silence other peoples opinion can only
see one side.-Bob


And Bob, I told myself to just stay out of your way and let you preach what you want to about suspension, However... Now you are just stretching the truth and I must interject.-Jeff ;)