318 Ti Competitive in GS

[Blueiii]

I've been running my Ti for a few years now, though not as regularly as I had wanted to. (School and losing my license last summer didn't help.)

From what you've seen in your regions, is the Ti competitive in G Stock? I'm usually middle of the pack. I know that switching to a racing "slick" would improve my times by a few seconds, but the 06 Si that runs in my region usually spanks everyone pretty hard.

We have another guy that cleans up regularly with a 330ci. He took my car out a few times to see what was up. His best time was .3 seconds faster than mine, however he also smacked a few cones in the process (so with penalty I was faster than he was.)

Just kind of curious what you have seen in the past.

Oh, and I can run different shocks as long as they are the same "style" and stay in the stock class, correct?

[treekiller]

It can be regionally compeditive, a 96+ 1.9 litre car with the sport suspension is a very good car.

and yes, The Z3 and 318 TI have identical suspensions and I drove a Z3 that could whoop on miatas pretty well back in the day.

Set up the allignment with some negative camber and get some good DOT tires and you'll shave 3-4 seconds off a stock cars time.

That being said, will it win nationals. it's 50 horsepower down and heavier then the SI but RWD and has the "BMW factor" that makes it easy to dive fast. I'll be honest I think the SI is a PIG

I wouldn't modify the car though, until you are able to get as much out of the car as it has to give then Bilstein makes a gerat shock set so does koni.

[z32drifter]

I'm with treekiller, tires and alignment. GS in my area is up and down, some events it's slow you could win on street tires. Then there are those days the exIMSA driver shows up in his Celica on Hoosiers and takes #1 Pax (he's also taken FTD before)
AutoX is more driver than car, I've seen great drivers make unlikely cars winners. Not that you have a chance at a national level event with out quality equiptment and in some classes "the car". At regional and local events my car has been faster than cars and classes that should be faster than me.

[bam2002]

We dont run any "stock" Ti s here..
Mine has coil overs and a chip and Cat back Ehaust. Also a X and upper strut brace.
I am very competative in the BMW CCA auto X events. I won 1st last year.
We have another car ( Russ is the owner Re other posts)
He has a Metrics Stroked engine puttin out 192 crank HP. Also Aluim Fly wheel, Dinan Throttle body and intake. Coil overs, sway bars, Ehaust. Its a really fast car, It holds its own agaist E36 M3s.

We both run R compund tires.

B

[treekiller]

I'd even hold back on the R-compounds for a while.

See. on a well balanced, short wheelbase car like the Ti, unlike a FWD Honda. You have to be prepared for the sheer quantity of Grip R-tires offer. the combination of perfect balance, an active rear suspension, and amazing grip, means that you can corner at unbelievable speeds. (I have pictures of me picking up a FRONT wheel in the Z3) you can go around a corner, think your at the limit... and there is just more grip.. the trouble is, when you eventually reach the limit, you are going so fast, you have to have super-human abilities to keep from flying off course... And a sliding Semi trailing arm BMW is as forgiving as a 3rd world dictator, It doesn't WANT to kill you, but it will, if that's what's necessary.

You can listen to the drifters.. or the car rags. everyone has an opinion on how to hold a car in a slide.... they tell you to balance the throttle and feed in opposite lock, and unless your running on 155/70-14 tires it's all BS. when a Ti, Z3 or E30 or older BMW lets go... It's over Johnny.. which was the inherent problem with vintage BMW's the fact that they feel SOOOOOO good and give you the confidence to push them harder... Harder... and HARDER!!! right up to that point, only compounds the problem. Sure you can go around your whole life driving at 9/10ths, and be just fine, but what fun is that. you can lock down the suspension to nominalize the effect, but that is why you will see 20 year old stock E30 M3's just trouncing even modern cars, when used correctly the suspension on these cars is a gift from the gods, truly an epic car.. but it's not for the novice driver.

if you asked me for my criticisms, as most people do. I'd have to return the comment these cars made little to no actual power, I am actually surprised when these cars move under their own power. which was a saftey measure.

so in summation If you get it wrong, yea it'll kill you, but when you get it right it's like sharing a hot-tub with J-lo.. it's intimidating however completely breathtaking.

I have people tell me my car is "nervous" because of the way it handles, I say if you want to relax get a massage.

[Blueiii]

Good feedback!

Backing up on my particular vehicle I run into two problems. First, like any of the other e36s I've seen in my region, I have some pretty extreme body roll going on. Hence the shock question - I've been considering Bilsteins because its so bad, but wanted to make sure that I would still fall in the same class. At one time I had a strut bar and CAI on the car, which were removed after I was bumped to DSP for two "mods" that really don't do all that much. (They were basically gifts.)

Second, though RWD my car has a severe problem with understeer. Quite frankly I get a bit peeved when the nose pushes through a turn. I have NEVER lost the back end through a turn - always the front. If there is a way to remove some of the understeer using the "stock" suspension that would be phenominal. (And yes, I watch my tire pressure and change it between runs.)

Finally, I know that the R-Compounds can drop times. In terms of seconds it depends on the course. When we run at the airport up here (much longer courses with a lot more straights) I get trounced thanks to the anemic 1.9L. On the shorter, more technical courses, I've been holding my own on street tires. (Upper Middle of the pack.) Admittedly my tires were the main problem in previous seasons as the BFGs I had were about 4 years old and lost a great deal of their traction. I put new tires on the car last year for my last run before having to bow out for the rest of the season, however they had all of about 15 miles on them when I got to the course they were definitely spongey. I've been pushing the car right into the edge of what it can do for the time being.

On the plus side, my times have been solid in the past. I've out driven guys in modified e36s with the smaller motors (1.8, 1.9) fairly regularly. I'd say on a scale of 1-10 for driving ability, at least in my region, I'd be about a 6.5 to a 7.

Keep the feedback coming, and if all goes well I will be moving down to Tampa in the next month or two, where the racing season is a wee bit longer than here in frozen Ohio!

[Blueiii]

Another side comment - the car just recently rolled around 94k on the odometer with the original shocks. At 10 years old replacing them seems inevitable in the future, just not sure how near of a future.

[treekiller]

all I can say about the understeer, stock BMW's are VERY neutral, if you are under steering it's almost always driver, not car... but that takes time and a sit down to explain. hell I can make a FWD car over steer if I REALLY want it to

[bam2002]

The e30s under steer more than the Ti. but is only when your out AutoXing. On a track day they are not that bad.
The e30 I was running had Ireland sway bars and Belstin sports struts.
The 318 Ti has the Bielstien PSS 9 coil over kit. The struts alone help a great deal with the body lean. My Ti is running stock sway bars - the coil overs alone make the car handle great.
Adding Cambler and R compunds - or a really top end street tire like Falken will make the Understeer minimal. I drove 2 years on street tires then went to R compounds. The tires were like night and day. The car went where I pointed it ... with no understeer.
Last year I took out my Euro Baur e30 323 to the auto X. It has Bielstin sports and Hand R springs. I put on a set of R compounds and was able to beat the 318Ti s in the club, On a point level RE upgrades we were in the same class. AND the 318 Ti were on R compounds.
Like Tree said you want to learn how to drive SMOOTH then get R compounds.. Because you can deveope bad habids if you get them to early.
Also there is alot to be said for a slow sticky car. If you have the car set up really well with low HP you cant get into trouble. The car will always get thru the corner. One of our Instructors has a e36 M3 and 318is. He actully competes in the SCCA with the 318 and does very well, he gets better times in the 318.
In my opinion.. springs struts and Better tires are the best bang for the buck. BUT you need to check the rules and see if it bumps you up into another class. I have built my car to run in the BMW CCA classes, its very competative. But in SCCA I would get killed because of the mods and the class I would end up in.

Some Hi res photos of a event we had in Dec.. you can see the TI and other cars in action. RE body roll etc..
PCA/BMW Auto-X December 9 2007 (http://www.floridaracing.org/auto-x/pca12907/)

[Blueiii]

So I'm looking through the pictures of the red Sport, thinking, "Dang. Why isn't the wheel buried in the fender?" Then I realized its yours and you probably have the same Bilsteins I was looking at last year.

For reference of the aforementioned body roll, http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a101/bleuiii/Ti3.jpg
Notice the driver's side front wheel in relation to the fender.

[Loren]

Here's my take, short and sweet. (I'm not known for either, so bear with me) Given your apparent status as a driver, and your situation with the car:

1. Shocks. 10 year old shocks with 90k miles on them need to be replaced, or at least refreshed. Bilsteins are better than good.

2. Alignment. Get it right.

3. Driver. With the above, you're going to have to relearn the car a little bit.

4. Tires. Then you'll be ready for the grip.

[kbmwm3]

318ti will be a fun local GS car.
A good fun economical car to compete in.
Best advice - leave stock - just freshen shocks and bushings up - get the best tires you can afford and go to as many events as yoy can.
Practice - practice - practice.

On a bigger competition level 0 the 318ti can not run even close to the MINI Cooper S in SCCA GS.

Fix it up and come out and get sme seat time,
Keith R
JFF Racing
SCCA BS BMW M3 / HS BMW 318i / GS MINI Cooper S

[Blueiii]

Anyone care to make recommendations to how the alignment should be set up with the stock suspension? I'm leaning towards the Bilsteins, but not until I have several other "kinks" worked out.

[Blueiii]

Oh, and Loren, one of the first cars I looked at some - we won't say how many - years ago, was a Triumph Spitfire. I ran into a guy up here a few years back that had swapped out the TR7 front end and dropped a rather large Chevy v8 in his. It was, quite frankly, a thing of beauty.

[treekiller]

I'll back up Loren, The Bilsteins are GREAT for this application, the Koni's the adjust ability is nice but I never liked the way koni's feel, some people swear by them but I think they feel muddy. when your just starting out the adjustment is just one more thing to mess up.


one thing is you MAY have to buy front Bilsteins sports for the E36 M3 as for some unknown reason 10 years ago bilstein only issued there awesome single tube dampers to the E36 M3 the rest of the E36 line got low pressure twin tube fronts.. I don't know if this has changed but that was the deal in 99. as I recall it was a bolt up affair, but I drank a lot since then. Call Bilstein and get the correct part numbers for the monotube. the front of the car might sit slightly higher with the monotubes because it raises the effective front spring rate. but The Z3 needed a little boot in the front since it sat like a 70's dragster in stock form.

As for Allignment there are 2 ways to go, I love people that tell me their E36's are non adjustable. one is the "crash bolt" BMW P/N 07-11-9-900-587 nut P/N 07-12-9-964-661 (these part numbers are old see if they still apply)

I've know of many competitors that used these back in the day on the national level to dial in an extra .5-.75 of negative camber, also while not a part availble when I was racing the MZ3 Strut top mounts have a bit of camber built into them too. I assume this would apply to the E36 M3 parts in your case.

The other is to add a 1/16" or 1/8" washer between the two bottom holes of the strut and the spindle, I used to use both of these back in the day to tuck 245 tires under the fenders of my little Z3 and run with a full -2.5 degrees camber. for the Street I recommend no more then 2 deg and Zero toe in the front. rear, I don't know I don't think I ever touched mine, once I got the front correct. the car was perfect and did not need anything else. I never had to touch the sway bar (I did once but it only slowed me down). but if once you get the car really grippy up front if the rear starts to become unruly a nice fat swaybay on the front will Re-Plant the Rear.

[Blueiii]

Alright, well if I move or get stuck up here it seems like either way the answer is pretty straightforward. . .

1.) Clean up the existing suspension with the Bilsteins that I was looking at.
2.) Adjust the alignment (well, have someone do it since I don't know anything about it yet, other than that it hasn't been done in over 40k.)
3.) Drive the car for another 10k, get more seat time with the new suspension and re-learn the feel of the car. (ie: where is it going to push, etc.)
4.) EVENTUALLY get the R-Compounds. . . Not anything I'm looking to do just yet. With other changes being made to the setup I figure I'll be re-learning the breaking points on several things.

Oh, and I've been looking at the "heavy duty" shocks which are a monotube design. . .

[z32drifter]

I think I would opt for the "sport" over the "heavy duty"