Does anyone know?

[brownguy06]

does anyone know any amps that can be ran at .5 ohm and not have a problem? if you do can you post them here for me so that i can check them out..

[galacticmonkey]

Sundown Audio SAZ-1500D I know can for sure. I ran mine at .35 ohm daily and they never even went into protect after beating on them forever.

Alot of the American Bass amps can also. Another option is Incriminator Audio 20.1s.

Check em out.

[the727kid]

^^What he said is bout the best options.. why do you want to run that low? It makes life shorter for subs and amps.

[jriggs]

i think JL mono amps can be run down to a half ohm

::edit::
never mind the new ones are rated down to 1.5 ohm's not a half

[brownguy06]

i dont know i heard that if you run the subs that low you get some great lows out of them..but im not to sure if people are just talking crap. im kind of new to the whole audio thing so i want to make sure what i can and can not do.

[brownguy06]

can anyone tell me how to wire a sub down to .5 ohm i just want to make sure that i know what im doing. would you have to get a sub with dual 1 ohm to get to the .5 ohm?

[jriggs]

With one sub with dual One ohm voice coils you would wire it in parallel to itself (positive to positive, negative to negative) to take the ohm load to a half ohm.

I’m pretty sure Toby did a test a while back running a sub at different ohm levels and the decibels produced / power ran threw it.

Here is some info on ohm’s law so you can understand how it works more if you care to

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp (http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp)
http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp (http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/page2.asp)

- james

[brownguy06]

thanks for the info man

[brownguy06]

i was checking out the specs for the (Sundown Audio SAZ-1500D) and it does not tell me how to wire it down to .5 ohm its set up for the speaker wire is (+,-,-,+) how would i bridge this to .5 ohm?

[POST]

i dont know i heard that if you run the subs that low you get some great lows out of them..but im not to sure if people are just talking crap. im kind of new to the whole audio thing so i want to make sure what i can and can not do.


No, you get some dirty lows out of them.


There is no real reason to do this unless it's more economically feasible and you're willing to accept that you'd have your components put under more heat and strain and will not sound as clean as they could.

[Notladstyle]

The lower the ohm load - the WORSE the lows will be.

[brownguy06]

ok i still dont understand but i kind of get where your coming from.

[galacticmonkey]

The difference in sound quality is not really anything to speak of. You cant hear a difference between ohm loads by ear.

The statement you heard is just a generalization. You get the better, louder lows because you see more power running it at .5ohms compared to 1 ohm. I really wouldnt bother with .5ohm for a daily driver setup. Much cheaper to just buy an amp that does the power you need at 2 ohms, compared to buying an amp and a ton of eletrical upgrades to support a .5ohm system.

Only reason people run .5ohms is because the lower the ohm load, the more power. Same reason people run 18v to their amps.... More power.

[Notladstyle]

The difference in sound quality is not really anything to speak of. You cant hear a difference between ohm loads by ear.

The statement you heard is just a generalization. You get the better, louder lows because you see more power running it at .5ohms compared to 1 ohm. I really wouldnt bother with .5ohm for a daily driver setup. Much cheaper to just buy an amp that does the power you need at 2 ohms, compared to buying an amp and a ton of eletrical upgrades to support a .5ohm system.

Only reason people run .5ohms is because the lower the ohm load, the more power. Same reason people run 18v to their amps.... More power.

You can most definitely hear the difference in sound quality between .5 and 4ohms... Unless you are using garbage speakers like eminence or something similarly as horrible.

[the727kid]

^^ Couldn't hear it from .5 to 2 with my BLs.

[galacticmonkey]

If both were played to before clipping, you wouldnt tell a difference. No way you would be able to tell. Especially not in a Class D amp.

[galacticmonkey]

And btw, who the hell runs a mids/highs amp at .5ohms? That doesnt make any sense, so you really cant say anything about Eminence or any other pro audio gear. Maybe thats why you might have had problems with pro audio speakers....

He is talking about a subwoofer amp (obviously), and in that case, there is a 99% chance it will be Class D, and he wont be able to tell a difference in the sound.

[Notladstyle]

Who said anything about mids? Maybe you just don't have as refined hearing as someone who started out on home audio equipment... Theres a big difference.

Both 727 and galactic are geared towards making 6 subs fart as loud as possible, its very difficult to get two subwoofers into perfect phase at such high output yet alone 6.

[galacticmonkey]

You brought up the mids. You said that the reason you cant tell is because of "garbage like Eminence".

We dont want to make subs "fart" as loud as possible. We just like loud stuff. It doesnt have to perfectly faithful sonic reproduction.... Its just a loud car, not an award winning sound quality car. Since thats the case, you wont hear the difference.

You are putting more into this than there really is.

[Skittle]

I want my subs to fart.


To add relevance...If your going to run .5 ohm,Your gonna need a nice supply of current for the amplifier to eat up.I personally am gonna change from the 1ohm setup currently,to a 2 channel-2 ohm amp,just to take some strain off all my hardware.

I recommend Sundown products,I've never visually seen them in action,but from youtube videos,and reviews..They are top notch for big power,and low ohms.

[Notladstyle]

You brought up the mids. You said that the reason you cant tell is because of "garbage like Eminence".


You are putting more into this than there really is.


I was specifically talking about subwoofers as that was the original topic of the thread. but even then, Eminence makes subwoofers.


Rather than I am putting more into it, maybe you are cutting out most of it...

(it being a complete sound package - output, quality, reliability, and appearance)

[the727kid]

Hey now I just like my shit stupid loud :).. I don't think I have "farted" any of my setups. As for stupid loud, I will be posting my home audio build on here soon :D.

[TBSpyder]

If you can hear an audible quality difference in ohm loads, you are a truly gifted individual.

[Notladstyle]

If you can hear an audible quality difference in ohm loads, you are a truly gifted individual.i smell a bet coming on...

[the727kid]

.5 to 32ohms doesn't count.

[galacticmonkey]

If Toby ever has another meet we could do it.

Will turn out like the last bet. Just like you said that less ohms dont make more power.... Thats commen sense that the opposite is true.

But the bottom line is that to the ear, with a Class D amplifier you wont be able to hear an audible difference between .5 ohms and 2 ohms. Yeah, if you busted out an RTA analyzer you could see the difference, but on regular music in a car with a Class D amp, there is no difference to speak of.

[Notladstyle]

I will take that bet between .5 ohms and 4ohms. My ears, all else identical.

When it comes to noise - you might be the best. When it comes to sq - I'm pretty sure you are lacking.

I'm still down for the box building at USF.

[jriggs]

just run at 2 or more ohms if your going on a drive it around system, its not worth cutting ohm load down for the extra power unless its a comp set up. in my opinion

Hey now I just like my shit stupid loud :).. I don't think I have "farted" any of my setups. As for stupid loud, I will be posting my home audio build on here soon :D.

only if we could put meter on home audio set ups... i might win that battel nothing like enough power and gear to blow out ford amp in your living room :headbang:

[the727kid]

You can lol what you running in ya house?

[galacticmonkey]

Well it would have to be .5 and 2 ohms.

[TJElite]

Seeing as Dalton never paid up on his last bet :-), I'm not really looking to get into another one. But if it were going to be a real bet, it would have to be blind...listener doesn't know the ohm load, and more than one listener...majority rules, or something.

More importantly, and this is not meant to be argumentative...those of you who believe that there will be a noticeable decrease in sound quality at lower ohm load...what will make the difference? I'm curious, because as long as the amp doesn't clip, I don't see where it could come from.

And, FWIW, I agree that if you don't need the extra power and output that comes from running lower ohm loads, you shouldn't. There is no doubt that it generates more heat, puts more strain on the equipment, etc. But, I wouldn't use sq as part of that argument. While not an expert, I do have many years of experience, and several IASCA SQ wins (back when IASCA was a real league, and DB didn't really matter), so I do think I can speak to this with some authority.


Toby

[Notladstyle]

I never got to see the experiment.. just your post.

I'll do you one better, blind, group or not, I'll do three runs and tell you which run(s) were 4 ohms and which were .5 ohms.

Cant bet on 2ohms because I have nothing to wire to 2ohms to listen to at home.

[TJElite]

I never got to see the experiment.. just your post.

Well, you could have come to the meet, but chose not to. Besides, you posted this,

I stand corrected, although I am sure theres a formula to work out the actual loss to inefficiency.

Your $10 will be delivered on the 8th :smile:
__________________
Alarm & remote start installer

in this thread http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/audio-hq/445583-well-i-wrong.html

I even let you off the hook, telling you just to bring an extra toy, to the meet you did not attend. Really doesn't matter, but you brought it up.



I'll do you one better, blind, group or not, I'll do three runs and tell you which run(s) were 4 ohms and which were .5 ohms.

Cant bet on 2ohms because I have nothing to wire to 2ohms to listen to at home.

With what equipment, on what source material, at what volume, and in what car? I ask, because I do believe that some amps, for example, might be running out of power supply at .5 ohm, and higher volumes, which could lead to clipping, attenuation, and a host of other potentially audible things.


Seriously though, I really don't care about the bet. I'm more interested in what the theory is behind .5 ohm sounding noticeably different than 4 ohms. Not attacking, just curious.


Toby

[Notladstyle]

Well, you could have come to the meet, but chose not to. Besides, you posted this,

I stand corrected, although I am sure theres a formula to work out the actual loss to inefficiency.

Your $10 will be delivered on the 8th :smile:
__________________
Alarm & remote start installer

in this thread http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/audio-hq/445583-well-i-wrong.html

I even let you off the hook, telling you just to bring an extra toy, to the meet you did not attend. Really doesn't matter, but you brought it up.





With what equipment, on what source material, at what volume, and in what car? I ask, because I do believe that some amps, for example, might be running out of power supply at .5 ohm, and higher volumes, which could lead to clipping, attenuation, and a host of other potentially audible things.


Seriously though, I really don't care about the bet. I'm more interested in what the theory is behind .5 ohm sounding noticeably different than 4 ohms. Not attacking, just curious.


Toby

I blame my wife for keeping me from the meet. Nothing short of a oath of lifelong loyalty would separate me. But I will honor my bet one way or another.

Ive owned three setups long enough to actually hear the difference,

An mtx rt251d connected to a single mtx 7500 10" running 2 or 8ohm mono. this was class d.

Polk 500.2 connected to two alpine 10" type s running 2ohm stereo and 4ohm mono. This was a/b.

A kenwood xxv-03a and a single Diamond 12" d6 running 1ohm and 4 ohms mono. This was class D

I did own a setup that I could not hear the difference and that was a Pyle Superblue 500 and a pyle l5 clone with no model number at 1ohm and 4ohm.

[TJElite]

I'm just kidding...Dan told me your wife was sick.

But back to my original question...what do you think makes the difference in SQ?

[galacticmonkey]

The distortion does go up... But going from 4 ohm to .5 ohms is so small you wouldnt be able to tell.

Im sure you could tell if you really cranked it past clipping. Then it would sound like ass, but as long as both amps were before clipping, there would be no audible difference.

[TJElite]

The distortion does go up... But going from 4 ohm to .5 ohms is so small you wouldnt be able to tell.

Im sure you could tell if you really cranked it past clipping. Then it would sound like ass, but as long as both amps were before clipping, there would be no audible difference.


Distortion might go up, but not nearly enough, especially in low frequencies. 1% thd is considered undectectable from 20-20khz, and I've read that as much as 10% thd goes un-noticed below 80hz.

Besides, you're from the 'it won't matter' club...I want to hear from the 'it will sound worse' club :D

Toby

[POST]

Besides, you're from the 'it won't matter' club...I want to hear from the 'it will sound worse' club :D

Toby

Which would be me.


I honestly heard a difference, even before he brought the volume up past clipping...

and wow that sounded like ass

[galacticmonkey]

I still say we can do something like get 10 people to listen to a system... Once at .5 ohm, and once at 2 ohms., or 1 ohm and 4 ohm. Just use a regular D class amp and a regular DVC subwoofer. I dont mean use any top notch sq equipment or anything like that, just a decent system that you would find in the average car.

[Notladstyle]

lets doo eeeeet

Its morphin time!

[Kaise7en]

Mmats pro audio amps will get down to half ohm stable safely...Kai

[f85stealth]

Just to start....I am a pro audio/video design engineer....


Yes reliabilty of amplifiers and speakers goes down as the ohm load increases....and just for clarity ohms is resistance so when i say an ohm load is increased the numbers are going down...

now....yes it is possible to hear distortion from lowering a speakers ohm rating in a subwoofer situation....this is all very dependent on the quality of amplifier selected.

Car audio is far different from pro audio but principles still exist in both and i have done custom car audio installations for 6 years now.

If you look at a amplifiers specification rating there should be somethign listed called THD (total Harmonic distorion)....i think you know where i am going with this.....

Depending on a trained ear someone can tell then difference at as little at 3-4%

The average listener however will be lucky to hear around 7-8%.

This applies in a subwoofer situation or midrange.

To answer the original posters question. Yes there are amplifiers out there that can do such a thing. These guys in the board would better guide you to those then myself.

With little knowledge in audio that you have increasing your ohm load will only but a nice fat whole in your pocket with not the results you are looking for.

This next follwoing statement is very generalized and is only for loud!

If you are looking for loud build yourself a ported box or better yet buy a bandpass box. Get some large subwoofers....what ever you can fit and look for ones with a high sensitivity rating....on top of that look at the rms rating of the subwoofer.....once you find what you like you match the speaker to an amplifier....

For car audio its very common to see a 1% THD so this wouldnt concern me at all.....if you see anythign more i would start to question it. Next buy an amplifier with a CEA power rating. This gaurantees you true wattage. Alot of companies use ....umm think of a nice word....phony....power claims. So sticking with somethign with this rating is a true and tride way. Now not all companies can afford this CEA stamp of apporval so there may be amplifiers on the market that are true and tride so you may have to take the advice of the people on boards such as this on the more umm smaller amplifier companies

Once a subwoofer is decided upon PM me and i will help you in wiring your subwoofers properly and pointing you in the right direction for an amplifier..

Hope this helps

[jriggs]

You can lol what you running in ya house?

two twin 15 cab under the stage, and a bunch of jbl loud speakers around all powered by a couple crown amps powering it all and the sound comming off a mackie mixer.

its not for surround sound its in the bar at the house. its a ton of my old sound gear from bands and such put together for rocking out in the bar (in the barn) :headbang:

back on topic i'm running those crown amps at 8ohms and only making 500watts (so they wouldn't do what you need) and i can run you out of the room and away from the building if its cranked up... but thats pa power not car audio theres a huge diffrence

[f85stealth]

two twin 15 cab under the stage, and a bunch of jbl loud speakers around all powered by a couple crown amps powering it all and the sound comming off a mackie mixer.

its not for surround sound its in the bar at the house. its a ton of my old sound gear from bands and such put together for rocking out in the bar (in the barn) :headbang:

back on topic i'm running those crown amps at 8ohms and only making 500watts (so they wouldn't do what you need) and i can run you out of the room and away from the building if its cranked up... but thats pa power not car audio theres a huge diffrence


Crown and Mackie are garbage these days....no offense

[jriggs]

Crown and Mackie are garbage these days....no offense

none taken the gears is old but it still sounds good and does the job and its better than a lot of band rock out with and is tons of fun to play with. lol

[strokedv8]

running low impedence (ohms ) does not directly promote low bass! .5 ohms by industry standards is very low almost a dead short. i dont have the space on this page to get into all the dynamics at work here. so in a nut shell , its very in efficient, horrible on your charging system and poor quality output. im very confident you can run a particular amp sub enclosure combo @ much higher impedence and still achive incredible low bass! if you want more specific info feel free to e-mail jason at strokedv8@yahoo.com retired installer of 14 years.

[TBSpyder]

running low impedence (ohms ) does not directly promote low bass! .5 ohms by industry standards is very low almost a dead short. i dont have the space on this page to get into all the dynamics at work here. so in a nut shell , its very in efficient, horrible on your charging system and poor quality output. im very confident you can run a particular amp sub enclosure combo @ much higher impedence and still achive incredible low bass! if you want more specific info feel free to e-mail jason at strokedv8@yahoo.com retired installer of 14 years.


I don't think anyone implied that a lower ohm load results in lower bass or a lower frequency. The argument is that a lower ohm load results in decreased sound quality.

[galacticmonkey]

Exactly. The ohm load has nothing to do with the notes it will play... Thats absurd.

But this is another common sense thing... I mean who honestly thinks that ohms dont have an effect on the power your amp produce?

[Notladstyle]

Exactly. The ohm load has nothing to do with the notes it will play... Thats absurd.

But this is another common sense thing... I mean who honestly thinks that ohms dont have an effect on the power your amp produce?

ehh, ohm load does affect frequency output. but its a combination of the power supply, spyder resistance, and the coil design.

and im still waiting on that demonstration of the giant power output gain. on paper there should be, but after running a few more tests of my own, i still doubt the real world gain.