Looking to get into Autocross..

[kaluwa]

Where can I find information on local events? Usually, how often are their autocross events in the Tampa area?

I've never participated in an event, but upon researching it lately I would really like to get out and give it a try.

Thanks.

[jlude90]

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/auto-x-road-racing/241818-autocross-driving-event-schedule.html

stickies in the top of the forum man

just make sure you have a safe car, and if a helmet is required(if no loaners are available) have one of those

otherwise go out there, screw up, and have fun

talk to as many people as you can

[Loren]

With the notable exception of the month of August, which a lot of clubs take off because it's too damned hot, you can find an autocross within 2 hours of Tampa at least two weekends out of any month. (usually more) There's at least one autocross per month within an hour of Tampa.

Like the man said, read the stickies. There you'll find a very comprehensive schedule with links to all of the local clubs, along with a lot of other usefule information.

Best thing you can do: Get to an event, let 'em know you're new, and accept their offers to assist. Have fun!

PS: There are >>>TWO<<< slots left for the FAST novice school in January. You should snag one of 'em. That'll get you started.

Look for the thread about the school, it's here somewhere.

[kaluwa]

Just spent a good amount of time reading the stickies.. Don't know why I didn't do that before making a thread, but whatever.

The SCCA solo2 events looks like they would work out for me. There is a practice and an event (both in one weekend) almost every month. Brooksville is only about 30 minutes away from my house too. Have you guys been to this event? How is it?

Also I noticed that it says I need an SCCA membership card. Where can I sign up for one, and what is the charge to become a member? Oh and another important question.. I'm 17, will I be allowed to participate with a waiver signed by my parents, or do you have to be 18 with no exceptions?

Thanks.

[Loren]

Local SCCA autocrosses are just fine. All of the clubs around here are pretty good. You don't have to be an SCCA member to attend, you just get a discounted entry fee if you are one.

Any of the local clubs will allow you to compete at 17 (all but SCCA require that you have a valid driver's license, but I assume that you do anyway), but you will be required to have a parent sign a minor waiver. If you can't bring a parent with you, you'll need to consult with the club you're running with to see if they can mail you a copy of the waiver. (personally, I don't like doing that if I haven't met the parents... too easy for kids to forge it and compete without their parents knowledge)

[pullg]

Local SCCA autocrosses are just fine. All of the clubs around here are pretty good. You don't have to be an SCCA member to attend, you just get a discounted entry fee if you are one.

Actually, starting this year you do...National office imposed new sanctioning rules. They also set up a mechanism for temporary/introductory memberships...how Central FL Region is implementing that, I don't know. (Jeremy...any idea?) Sign up for the CFR e-mail group at cfrsolo2@yahoogroups.com and one of the event organizers will be able to answer that.

They're good events -- numbers have been small this year, so lots of runs, and the courses are generally interesting.

[Loren]

I know this wasn't a local decision... but it sure doesn't seem like a good move for the local SCCA. I know I'm not paying for an SCCA membership just to go to maybe 2-3 events in a year.

[treekiller]

It's a matter of time before SCCA becomes a Road-Racing only org. They killed off their successful Rally program, They are killing off their autocross program. It's a stogy group of gentleman racers, with enough classes so everyone gets a "participation" trophy. Go to a FAST autocross, the private clubs are where it's at for the beginner. If it was not for BMW and Porsche clubs when I first started I would have never continued. THE SCCA did not want us "kids" at the time, I fought through it, but in retrospect I would have killed to have a private club back then where we got 6 runs and free lunch!

[Native]

kaluwa - the FAST school is full. If you happened to have signed up, be sure to bring a parent along to sign the necessary waivers. As Loren said above, we gotta be sure it's all legit.

If you didn't, drag the folks out to sign you up for a regular event. Plenty of qualified folks available who will be more than happy to show you the ropes. :)

[treekiller]

Native: somewhere i have a PDF of the minor waver if you need to send it out.

[pullg]

I know this wasn't a local decision... but it sure doesn't seem like a good move for the local SCCA. I know I'm not paying for an SCCA membership just to go to maybe 2-3 events in a year.
Depending on the region, it'll be largely transparent to competitors. The region has to cough up something like $15 for each non-member to cover the cost -- how much, if any, of that they pass on to the competitors is up to the region (I don't know what CFR is planning). The region sends the list of names off to the National office, who then spams the newbies mailbox with recruiting material...and I think they can apply the "temporary membership" cost towards a regular membership, whether they actually had to pay out or the region absorbed it. IMO, it's another one of those bad recruiting ideas that'll either go away or cause regional autocross programs -- many of whom began as independent clubs and linked with the SCCA for the favorable insurance coverage -- to break loose from the club. The autocross programs in many regions gets little, if anything from the rest of the region, and in some of the smaller ones, it's the bulk of the participants.

On the other hand, that's what they get for hiring an auto industry exec to run the club...is there a U.S. industry that's suffering more because it's lost sight of its purpose?

[Native]

Native: somewhere i have a PDF of the minor waver if you need to send it out.
Thanks. Got it covered. But I'm with Loren - we'll need to play "meet the parents" with any first-timer minor. I know of once before we didn't, and while no harm was done, after further discussion and thought we won't any more.

[Jordan Y.]

It's a matter of time before SCCA becomes a Road-Racing only org. They killed off their successful Rally program, They are killing off their autocross program. It's a stogy group of gentleman racers, with enough classes so everyone gets a "participation" trophy. Go to a FAST autocross, the private clubs are where it's at for the beginner. If it was not for BMW and Porsche clubs when I first started I would have never continued. THE SCCA did not want us "kids" at the time, I fought through it, but in retrospect I would have killed to have a private club back then where we got 6 runs and free lunch!

I went to an SCCA club racing day at Sebring once just to see what it was like. There were two other kids my age who were there with their fathers racing, then the rest of them were 40, 50, and 60 years old. 75 percent of the cars running were 30 year old RX-7s and VWs and even older Formula Fords and the like, the same cars these same guys have been running for the last 20+ years. There was some younger blood in Spec Miata and one unlimited class that had a mish-mash of crazy, random cars running, but the average age was over 40 and it didn't seem they were drawing young blood in.

In autocross, HPDE, whatever, SCCA has crazy and complicated rules and classes and you pretty much have to build your car from the ground up to fit into a class because pretty much any street tuner car somebody would build today is going to have that one chassis brace or engine part or suspension part that is outlawed and puts you in XP. "Oh, you have a triangulated strut tower brace, go race against tube frame aero cars". "Turbo? AWD? No road race for you!" Whereas NASA, FAST, etc, tend to be much more open. Just the impression I get, and the impression I'm sure a lot of other youngsters get when they start looking in to the sport and are put off by the three jillion pages of SCCA classing rules. My old DSM would have been in some insane class where it would have been tens of seconds slower than the pace even with a pro driver at pretty much any SCCA event and it was just a run-of-the-mill average mods turbo DSM.

[jaball77]

They are killing off their autocross program. It's a stogy group of gentleman racers, with enough classes so everyone gets a "participation" trophy.

Please ignore Jeff. Apparently he's not taking his medication... :roll:

The truth is that the SCCA is just as friendly for beginners and have just as much fun as any other club. We have novice walkthroughs of the course at every event and dedicated novice instructors as well.

I've been trying to attend both FAST and SCCA events when I can... Seat time is always nice! :)

[pullg]

In autocross, HPDE, whatever, SCCA has crazy and complicated rules and classes and you pretty much have to build your car from the ground up to fit into a class because pretty much any street tuner car somebody would build today is going to have that one chassis brace or engine part or suspension part that is outlawed and puts you in XP. "Oh, you have a triangulated strut tower brace, go race against tube frame aero cars". "Turbo? AWD? No road race for you!" Whereas NASA, FAST, etc, tend to be much more open. Just the impression I get, and the impression I'm sure a lot of other youngsters get when they start looking in to the sport and are put off by the three jillion pages of SCCA classing rules. My old DSM would have been in some insane class where it would have been tens of seconds slower than the pace even with a pro driver at pretty much any SCCA event and it was just a run-of-the-mill average mods turbo DSM.
In their defense, the SCCA is the only amateur racing organization out there with nationally-consistent rules covering almost anything you care to race from the last 50 years at any level from local to national competition (although the road-racers are admittedly cool towards turbos, believing difficult-to-police boost mods will make them class killers). That's an extremely tall order! The closest NASA, and obviously the marque clubs, have come is with marque-specific (or close to it, as with American Iron) classes where the performance differences are far smaller.

The SCCA autocross rules are explicitly designed for national competition, and in fact, the rulebook allows local regions to modify or ignore any of them other than the safety rules. NASA doesn't have a common set of autocross rules, and even the TT rules are not used universally or without modification. In fact, not that many NASA regions run autocrosses, and two attempts to hold NASA-X national championship failed. The FAST ruleset was deliberately designed to be simple, and it works great for the local group of drivers here, where variations in driver skill often even out modifications or differences between cars. It surely wouldn't work for national-level competition...it might not even work away from Tampa!

Having helped with the design proposals for the Street Touring (at least what became STS) and Street Modified categories (both were member-initiated proposals), I can tell you there is no such thing as a "typical" street tuner car...we looked hard! And serious competitiors -- remember the rules are designed to cover national competition -- will exploit everything in the rules. I'm surprised you couldn't find a home for the DSM in Street Mod, though...the category was pretty much invented to make a home for modified turbo cars, and the guy who was the key proponent drove a modified DSM.

[Mars_302]

street mod was no fun at times driving a mustang compared to everyone else. It did make you try hard though.

[Spin Out]

You know, I decided to drop my SCCA membership because it was just too expensive (even when it was offered as a Xmas gift from a family member). This on top of the recently raised event prices. I just planned to go to fewer SCCA events this year. Now, if I'm reading this right, I'll have to pay for a temporary membership?
I'll stick to the reasonably priced events with free lunches.

[w0rd]

I don't think the SCCA rates are going to change, as they are already too high.
If you aren't going to SCCA events because they are too expensive. Send an email to the solo chairmen and let them know.

SOLO II Chairman
Tim Reardon - reardo_t@bellsouth.net
SOLO II Co-Chairman
Dat Nguyen - dnguyen1@cfl.rr.com

[pullg]

This on top of the recently raised event prices. I just planned to go to fewer SCCA events this year. Now, if I'm reading this right, I'll have to pay for a temporary membership?
?? IIRC, the non-member price for west coast events is now $30...granted, they don't serve the famous FAST lunch, but it's hardly highway robbery, especially considering the number of runs you're getting. And as I said, the "temporary membership" aspect may be invisible to the competitors...it's the region's choice how much, if any at all, they choose to pass on. I have no window into the decision process, but Jeremy's probably right -- after having to raise event fees recently, CFR might choose to eat most or all of the cost for at least this season. National office buffoonery notwithstanding, CFR and every other SCCA region I've run over the years with does a pretty good job.

[bam2002]

Its been a while since I have been to a SCCA event . But I recall having to pay an extra 10 bucks if I was not a member over the standard cost. Making it the most expensive event, plus there was a late fee if you didnt make it to the sign up desk by a set time. So it could end up being 15 more than other events.
I am actually looking for more seat time. to go out and spend a day at a event for 5 sub 1 minute runs is not worth my time. I want to get at least 8 runs. Or I actually plan to start doing track days with up to 3 hours of track time in a day.

B

[w0rd]

I have been to some SCCA events recently and here are some details...

Entry fees are $25 for members and $40 for non-members (according to the latest Deland flyer). Yes that is expensive and if you don't like it, see three posts above. Those are the people that set the price of the events, not anyone reading this board.

I don't think they do the late fee thing anymore. But honestly if you can't make it to the registration table by 9:00AM, you deserve it. It's a lot of added work for the organizers when people show up late. We are trying to have the first car out at 10AM and people are trying to register at 9:30. :lol:

Not many people have showed up to any SCCA events last year, so we were averaging about 15 runs per day. At the last event weekend, I got about 40 runs.

Any other questions about the SCCA? Let me know.

[bam2002]

Cool . RE the amount of RUNs that is nice to hear..

I just got burned by the late fee on my 1st event , I was there at 8 but swapping tires . So i decided to wait till the line at registration cleared. At that point I was late and it didnt matter that it was my 1st event and i had made an error. It was more $$. But I am glad its cleared up.

Since Kris and I both co drive the car this means that If we wanted to Pop in and run a SCCA event it be $80 for the both of us.. To me that is a bit steep. I know it beyond the cotrole of the local chapter. But I wont take the time to write SCCA because there are plenty of other events to go to.

We area actually really lucky in this area. I can go to an event every weekend if I wanted. Because of this there is some competition, this is good for the consumer. So I can find events that are $25 to $30.
Both BMW and porche events are 8 to 10 runs. ( Porsche if you stay later for the Fun runs)
I know it can vary with Fast due to the amount of cars.
And like I said it sounds like SCCA is getting a good deal of run in.

For next year the BMW CCA has decided to cut down on events. We are only going to do 6 ot 7 and then piggy back with the Porsche club for 3. Honelstly Id rather pay the $30 and go to some one elses even rather than put one one. ITs alot easier.
Plus we have been bitten by the Sebring track bug. Kris I plan to start going to a track day every 2 to 3 months.

Ok Im done..

[Loren]

It's interesting how people's perceptions and expectations of autocross have changed over just the past 5-10 years.

When I started autocrossing in '96, the norm for autocrosses was 3-4 runs. It was all about the competition and being able to get out there and "get it right" in just a few runs.

I was always an advocate of more than 4 runs, with 5-6 being my goal for any event I was involved with. And now, with FAST, 6 is generally our minimum with very few exceptions.

I find it interesting to see people EXPECTING 8 runs, though. To pull of 8 runs regularly generally means that attendance is very low. Very low attendance does not equate to a healthy club. So, while CFRSCCA's current 14-run events sound cool on the surface, if major changes aren't made (and $40 entry fees are not a change in the right direction), it might be wise to view such things as the beginning of the end for them.

Just a casual observance.

[bam2002]

I would be OK with 6 runs on a course that took 70 to 90 seconds to run.

We had 10 runs last time with the BMW vs Porsche event. And that was with 42 cars. But I knew there would be alot of cars so the course was more "open" and only took 40 - 45 sec to run.

I guess when you start to compare it to track days the Auto X events are less desirable. Yes a track day is 125 bucks. But you get to drive 1.5 to 3 hours. A much better cost per minute of seat time.

Just my thoughts.

[Loren]

No doubt. As I mentioned in an email to Jeff yesterday: Track events will ALWAYS offer more "bang for the buck" than Autocross... it just takes more bucks!

[pullg]

Strictly from a cost-per-minute or cost-per-mile point of view, that's true. If you're looking for high-speed seat time in a car not prepared to any particular competitive standard, and risk isn't a critical factor, track days are the thing. For low-risk competition, it's difficult to beat autocrossing. (I'll leave road rallies out of this...those have a different appeal altogether.) There's no direct comparision. If you were to take up flat-track time trials or hillclimbing -- the competitive cousins of track days -- the cost goes up, and the risk goes way up. I wouldn't do either with my daily driver (although I know people who have), but I have no problem autocrossing it.

The usual heartburn with one club or another's rulesets usually comes down to the competitive aspect...people want to be competitive at the level of preparation they walk on with. That's not going to happen in any sport...if you're out to win, you have to prepare to rules intended to refine out all but competitor skill. The higher the level of competition, the more complex and strict the rules -- look at F1, or NASCAR...or golf. If you're not worried about winning, just show up with what you have and have fun.