2ND BRAND NEW turbo toasted, HELP DIAG!

[TNathe]

Here's the short guys, Im in need of some desperate diagnostic help. I have a KA24DET running a Turbonetics T3/T04e. I have just burned up my 2nd brand new turbo and did this within one week of installing it. Turbonetics runs a filter at the oil inlet of the housing, i have a -3AN SS oil feed line feeding the housing which get oil from a t-fitting off of a t-fitting <--- could THAT be starving the turbo (oil pressure off the first t-fitting reads around 25 at idle to 80+). BTW, my drain tube is ~ 1 inch (plenty big) and its not kinked in ANY way. Please help, they are warranting the turbo AGAIN but im tired of this and cant keep having my car down for long periods of time, something is wrong with my setup. If needed I can post pics.

PS: Does anyone know the MAXIMUM degree of angle you can have a turbo 'clocked' before you run into oil issues? I though in Maximum Boost it was like 15* or 30*

[manifoldmike]

you could be starving the turbo with your fittings. i usually use one of these instead of brass t's:

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/greddy/grd_blockadapter.jpg

1' oil drain should be totally fine. -10an line is only .625 and that is the largest i usually go with.

i wouldn't go over 20 degrees with the return line, but that doesn't sound like your problem.

are you running a restrictor too?
what is happening exactly?
is it blowing smoke?
does it lock up after a while? how long did it take to lock up?
is it ball bearing?

[TNathe]

thanks for the reply man. The turbo is getting shaft play then the compressor wheel begins rubbing the housing. Didnt smoke. This happens in about a week or so...

Is there a good way to test the flow of oil coming to the turbo? Like pull the drain line from the oil pan and run the car for a about 10 seconds and measure the amount it dumped??? :dunno:

Thanks, ill have to look into those GReddy adapter dealios.

[manifoldmike]

thanks for the reply man. The turbo is getting shaft play then the compressor wheel begins rubbing the housing. Didnt smoke. This happens in about a week or so...

Is there a good way to test the flow of oil coming to the turbo? Like pull the drain line from the oil pan and run the car for a about 10 seconds and measure the amount it dumped??? :dunno:

Thanks, ill have to look into those GReddy adapter dealios.


a couple things cause shaft play.

if your running on the surge line (which sounds like your turbo isn't that big, so thats probably not a problem. unless your running a t3/t67 or somthing)

no bov or non working bov which would cause compressor surge. this shouldn't wear a turbo that fast, however coupled with low oil pressure, it could be your problem. if your not sure what compressor surge sounds like, rev your engine up and on the decel it will sound like a pulsing hiss. a properly working bov sounds like a woosh of air or star wars (god damn hks).

low oil pressure is the most obvious.

reason i don't think its your drain line is because its not smoking like a banshi. usually if a drain line is kinked or too small, the turbo will smoke. thats about it though, it won't cause shaft play.

first step is to check oil pressure. if you don't have a gauge, look in the mirror and slap yourself, they can be had for under $50 and is the most important gauge you can get.

if you already do have a gauge make sure that your running more then 10 psi at idle and over 30psi while cruising. thats all a turbo needs to last. if you are running numbers close or below that, you probably need a new oil pump and probably an engine.

take off your feed line and whatever you have and check for obstructions. easy way to clear things out of the line is with some brake clean followed by some compressed air.

if your oil line is good, check the oil pressure at the feed line. this can be done with an actual oil pressure diagnostic gauge or you can build an apparatis at le home depot. my bet is that this is where your problem is.

if all of the above is good. check back. i'll put my thinking cap on in the mean time.

[FLNeonRT]

a couple things cause shaft play.

if your running on the surge line (which sounds like your turbo isn't that big, so thats probably not a problem. unless your running a t3/t67 or somthing)

no bov or non working bov which would cause compressor surge. this shouldn't wear a turbo that fast, however coupled with low oil pressure, it could be your problem. if your not sure what compressor surge sounds like, rev your engine up and on the decel it will sound like a pulsing hiss. a properly working bov sounds like a woosh of air or star wars (god damn hks).

low oil pressure is the most obvious.

reason i don't think its your drain line is because its not smoking like a banshi. usually if a drain line is kinked or too small, the turbo will smoke. thats about it though, it won't cause shaft play.

first step is to check oil pressure. if you don't have a gauge, look in the mirror and slap yourself, they can be had for under $50 and is the most important gauge you can get.

if you already do have a gauge make sure that your running more then 10 psi at idle and over 30psi while cruising. thats all a turbo needs to last. if you are running numbers close or below that, you probably need a new oil pump and probably an engine.

take off your feed line and whatever you have and check for obstructions. easy way to clear things out of the line is with some brake clean followed by some compressed air.

if your oil line is good, check the oil pressure at the feed line. this can be done with an actual oil pressure diagnostic gauge or you can build an apparatis at le home depot. my bet is that this is where your problem is.

if all of the above is good. check back. i'll put my thinking cap on in the mean time.

Some good trouble shooting there. Nice job.

[TNathe]

yes, great troublshooting info, HOWEVER, in my post you will see that I posted my oil pressure readings and no, I'm not compressor surging nor am I running an improperly sized turbo.

Much thought and effort went into the design of this system and thats why its bugging sooo bad! :lol: "Try to do something right and it still doesn't work out" haha.

Im gonna take pics of the t-fitting rigging i have and see what ya'lls opinions are. But essentially, I tried to make the oil pressure guage read as close to the feed line as possible without it being "in line" with it so i could see actual pressure reading the turbo was getting. I am thinking maybe i should move the pressure guage to read AT the turbo housing with a fitting there but im scared to introduce a flow problem into the housing. Has anyone seen an oil pressure guage rigged AT THE HOUSING?

[GradeA_TireFryer]

i have seen to much oil pressure will cause the seals to blow out - did you use the oil restrictor that came with the turbo? - tiny amount of oil goes thru there!

[manifoldmike]

sorry, i skipped over your oil pressure readings.

i would definatly check pressure at the turbo. i wouldn't worry so much about starving the turbo due to the gauge port being present. there should be more then enough oil there. if there isn't, thats an obvious problem.

i would have run -3an for your setup as well, so i wouldn't think thats the problem.

did you take the feed line off an make sure there is no obstructions?
is there metal flake in the oil?
are your egt's really high?

[TrboANTsi]

this wouldnt be a BB turbo would it?

[SpottedMango]

Normally a turbo don't come with oil restrictors, at least not from my experience. The turbo only lasted about a week or so, even without a restrictor, it still don't make sense to have fail that prematurally.

Whether ball bearing or not, an oil restrictor will help with the life of the turbo, but shouldn't cause a turbo to fail in that short amount of time.

i have seen to much oil pressure will cause the seals to blow out - did you use the oil restrictor that came with the turbo? - tiny amount of oil goes thru there!

[EsCoRtLvR]

Maybe the guy balancing the wheels was drunk that day and you just have bum luck? :D I bought an E-bay 60 trim for$220 shipped and haven't had a problem with it. Put a t off the oil pressure switch and a restrictor at the turbo. I popped the engine from too much pressure but the turbo is still good! :lol: .

[Alpha]

What exactly is failing? Are the seals failing? Is the shaft failing? Either way I would advise selling the new turbo. Then with the money you get from that. Buy yourself a Garrett unit

[BLACKCAT]

Switching to a Garrett is a great suggestion in my experience with Turbonetics turbos. I went through three before I learned my lesson and went to a Garrett. The two last turbos leaked oil through the seals right out of the box. I tried everything including oil restricters. No matter how small the restricter it still leaked. Every time I called turbonetics to ask them if using a restricter was necassary they told men no. They told me that their turbos don't need restricters. Slapped the Garret on there and happily went on my way with a properly working turbo. Sounds like you've done everything right except for checking for restrictions. As practice, every time I had turbo problems I replaced the line.

[Iraq&Roll]

I read that Turbonetics is not what it was these days. Not sure that has anything to do with your problem or not.

[manifoldmike]

I read that Turbonetics is not what it was these days. Not sure that has anything to do with your problem or not.

i know that turbonetics had a bad run for a couple years, but i thought they were getting better. especially considering they have a no-questions-asked 1 year return policy on all of their new turbos.

i put a gt/t67 in a g35 a couple months ago that was totally fine.

[Alpha]

From the LITTLE BIT I have seen they're not getting better. I have not seen much though

[kbprice]

Where are you getting the oil supply from? Are you tapping off the oil filter housing or union bolt or off of a sensor fitting? I've got a Turbonetics turbo with the small filter unit on top with no problems whatsoever so I don't think that is your problem.
If you can disconnect the drain line and start the car to make sure your getting good flow. Make sure you put a big pan underneath because if you do have good pressure it will spew alot of oil quickly.

[TNathe]

:evil: Ive got my oil line tapped into the hole the stock dummy light sensor threads into, it then has TWO T-fittings to support an oil pressure guage, the dummy light, and the oil feed...

BTW: Got my turbo on last week GUESS THE FUCK WHAT? Last night compressor wheel said ERRRRRRK :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I even wrote a letter to Turbonetics asking them to advise me to check anything on my setup as i am 'by the book'. When i put it on last Saturday, i fired the car up with the drain line disconnected from the oil pan and watched it dump ~ a quart within no time at all, oil flow CANT be the problem.

Does anyone know if having some crazy exhaust leak at the flange between the turbine housing and exhaust would cause issues? WHAT ELSE BESIDES OIL FLOW could limit the turbos life?

[Alpha]

Sell the Turbonetic's. Buy a Garrett :thumbup:

[TNathe]

i think i finally am :) Im shipping them this back under warranty and unloading it, i cant deal with this EVERY 500 miles, lol