Mazda finally does SOMETHING right for the 3rd Gen Miata...

[jaball77]

Mazda will be building a 3rd gen Miata specifically to compete with the Solstice in C-Stock and SSB! 5-speed, LSD, stiffer springs, Koni shocks, and additional "under" brace (???).

The bad news - the package is only available on the SV model, which has no AC and no radio... But at least it looks like Mazda is paying attention. :)

The info is from an email sent to Mazda dealerships this morning...

----------------------------------------

The MS-R package is for off-highway racing use only. In order to purchase this package the customer must be a Mazda Motorsport Team Support Member and an officially licensed SCCA member. The package is available on a special order basis through Mazdaspeed Motorsports.

Since its introduction in 1990, the MX-5 Miata has been one of the most successful models in SCCA (Sports Car Club of America) amateur road racing competition. The MX-5 Miata has captured multiple SCCA National Championships in the showroom stock and production racing classes and in SCCA National Solo 2 (autocross) competition.
To celebrate this success, Mazda is pleased to announce the availability of the MS-R option package for 2007 MY MX-5 SV models. The MS-R option package is designed specifically for customers that will be racing their MX-5s in SCCA’s Showroom Stock B (SSB) road racing class and C Stock (CS)
autocross class and is for off-highway racing use only. The MX-5s light weight chassis and 5 speed gearbox make it an ideal starting point for the weekend racer. The MS-R option package features a track-tested performance suspension, limited slip differential and 17 inch wheels and is available on a special order basis through Mazdaspeed Motorsports.
Availability:
Orderable from March 1 of 2007.
Base Vehicle:
SV with 5 M/T
Package contents:
• Limited slip differential
• Shock Tower Brace
• Chassis bracing (under brace)
• 17” alloy wheels and 205/45 R17 tires
• Koni shocks
• Sway bars (larger diameter)
• Springs (higher rate and lower ride height)
• Rear lip spoiler

[pullg]

...assuming the SCCA decides to class it that way. In fact, I don't think a package restricted to off-highway use can be classed in Stock. We'll see.

[jaball77]

...assuming the SCCA decides to class it that way. In fact, I don't think a package restricted to off-highway use can be classed in Stock. We'll see.

From what I understand the "off-road" part is a CYA on Mazda's part. They're going to be regular Miatas with regular VINs that can be registered for street use.

Since they specifically mention C-Stock in the communication, I'd assume they'd make it Stock legal... It'll be interesting to see!

[Muddy]

I wonder how many autoxers are "officially licensed SCCA members"? I imagine not many, since you can only get a license through road racing with the SCCA.

[Rosko]

I wonder how many autoxers are "officially licensed SCCA members"? I imagine not many, since you can only get a license through road racing with the SCCA.

I think the guys who would compete with this car at the national level probably have the credentials, and if not, would be easy for them to attain. If Mazda's objective was to recapture their crown, I have to think they had a plan - they touched base with SCCA. They already knew top-ranked people who would compete with their car... Things of that nature.

Not to derail, but what I would like to do is prod them into creating their AS or SS car: Either a MX-5 or RX-8 turned into a true coupe ( convertibles don't suit me :) ) with their MZR 2.3L DISI turbo engine. Hopefully, that is what their concept Kabura will turn out to be.

[Loren]

Sounds like another doomed Mazda special racing edition. How many of the last special "racing only" Miata did they sell?

They need a good mainstream suspension option package that ANYONE can buy, and without limiting what other options can be added or deleted in conjunction with it. How hard is that?

I agree with Jamie. This package is not likely to remain in the same class with the other MX-5's. Or, if it does, it will be because the package isn't enough of an improvement to matter much.

[pullg]

Since they specifically mention C-Stock in the communication, I'd assume they'd make it Stock legal... It'll be interesting to see!
It's one thing to make it conform to Stock rules...another for the SEB to classify it in CS...or allow it in Stock at all. The whole runaround about having to go through the competition department is puzzling...why not just make it a special order option straight from the dealer? If it's all bolt-on parts, the worry about leftover cars on the lot doesn't even apply -- just tag cars on the production line for the additional installations.

Not selling my NB yet....

[mofugga]

i bet this one is sent to csp or something:lol:

[Slash]

Why dont they just man up and realize the chassis is fine and the engine is what sucks ass.

they have a good engine for once in their life and they wont put the 2.3 turbo in the miata.....

Best budget chassis and best budget engine never seem to make it into the same car.

[PseudoRealityX]

Why dont they just man up and realize the chassis is fine and the engine is what sucks ass.

they have a good engine for once in their life and they wont put the 2.3 turbo in the miata.....

Best budget chassis and best budget engine never seem to make it into the same car.

Because the problem isn't the engine?

The oem suspension is shitty. THAT's the problem.

Plus, the 2.3L turbo wouldn't be able to run Showroom stock more than likely. Maybe it would into T2 or something...

[jaball77]

Wow. I just saw pricing info on this package...

The package will add $7500 to the cost of the SV model. So the SV MS-R will be about a $28,000 car.

It'll actually be cheaper to buy a regular SV, buy the parts from the dealer, and install the parts yourself....

Way to go, Mazda.

[mofugga]

damn, for that kinda money i'd rather buy a used s2000. even if people like to slash the tops & steal the seats out of 'em...

[treekiller]

Why is it so hard to beleive the era of the miata is over. It's been upstaged by a cheaper, faster car from a <Gasp> domestic manufacturer. the miata was good but it had to grow. the average american doesent fit in an old school miata. the MX5 is a nice convertable. everybody has caught up. besides with the MZR engine it's a Ford vs. Chevy battle now anyway. all that is need is a calvin peeing sticker.

[Loren]

Give it a few more years, someone will decide to build the next "Miata", just like the Miata was "the next MG".

Every successful and affordable true sports car goes through this cycle: Build the initial "perfect sports car". Simple, effective, adequate power, cheap, people love it. Then the people who never should have bought the car in the first place complain about it. "It's too small", "it rides too rough", "it needs more storage space", "it needs more power"... and thus it begins. The car gets heavier with options and sound deadening, the suspension goes soft in the name of ride quality, the car gets bigger, and soon it's nothing at all like its original concept. And the worst part: all of that added fluff prices it out of the market that it was successful in.

Happens every time. RX-7, MR2, Celica/Supra, Miata, etc.

Nobody seems to be capable of doing what the old Brit sports car companies did: Keep building simple, small, cheap, fun sports cars.

(Why, yes, yes I did just get back from lunch driving to lunch in my Spitfire. How did you guess?)

[jaball77]

Nobody seems to be capable of doing what the old Brit sports car companies did: Keep building simple, small, cheap, fun sports cars.

I dunno. I think Mazda got it pretty much right. The car still weighs under 2500 lbs, is faster and more comfortable, and you can get a nice one for under $23,000... The only thing they screwed up was the suspension, which you can fix with $600 in MazdaSpeed parts and 8 hours of your time.

But then I guess I'm biased.

:D

[Loren]

I've got a 1990 beater Miata. For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone thought anything needed to be changed on that car. It's got ample power, handles nicely, has all of the famous Miata goodness, and is just plain fun.

The new MX-5 is a nice car... but it's way, way removed from what the Miata was conceived as.

[jaball77]

I've got a 1990 beater Miata. For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone thought anything needed to be changed on that car. It's got ample power, handles nicely, has all of the famous Miata goodness, and is just plain fun.

The new MX-5 is a nice car... but it's way, way removed from what the Miata was conceived as.

Two main reasons for upgrading from my '94:

1) Power. My 94 was slower to 60 than my parents' Toyota Sienna.

2) Comfort. I'm "one of those people that barely fit in a Miata" as Loren put it so eloquently... With tilt steering, it gives me more room to work the pedals.

...Add to that that it's a new car with a warranty and none of the little niggling little problems my 94 had, and it was a no brainer.


I think I actually liked the seats in the '94 better, and I liked the lower door sill in the older cars too... But for me, the NC does everything else better.

You should drive my car this weekend, Loren. I bet you'll still feel the Miata-ness. :)

[Loren]

No doubt. The one NC MX-5 that I drove was a "touring edition". HATED the suspension. With your suspension, I'd probably really enjoy it.

[nunyo]

There's no probably about it. The suspension in Jason's car works extremely well, even with the bad alignment it had when i drove it. I've also ridden in the car on the street and I don't think there's much compromise in ride quality either.

It is really beyond me why they bothered to put the other crap in the factory car when this setup is available.

[treekiller]

once again the Target market for the MX5 is not mid 30's men with a sporting tendency. it's mid 30's women, who want to look cute and not mess up their hair. hence the hardtop convert option and soft suspension. I used to sell Chevrolets. the most popular model of Corvette was a red or yellow automatic convertable. because that was what "She wanted" The Z06 was mainly purchased by single men, or extremely well to do gentlemen that could afford 2 toys one for her and a track toy.

the exception to the rule was when I worked for Mazda the RX-8 was sold to many more single women then I ever expected. mostly automatic. but still more of a sporting car then I would expect. where the last generation Rx7 was allmost exclusivly a car purchased by men.

[jaball77]

once again the Target market for the MX5 is not mid 30's men with a sporting tendency. it's mid 30's women, who want to look cute and not mess up their hair.
I don't know how this is relevant to this thread, but this info is incorrect.

According to JD Power, 61% of Miata buyers are male.

[pullg]

Nobody seems to be capable of doing what the old Brit sports car companies did: Keep building simple, small, cheap, fun sports cars.
Except they didn't keep building them.... Find me an MG or Triumph locally that's less than 25 years old. The MG-F wasn't that much different than its contemporaries from Toyota and Mazda, but didn't sell as well.

OBCs of any type are an acquired taste...delightful under the right conditions, and proof that you can build a car out of surplus tractor parts, matchsticks, and beaten sheet metal. :)

[BeQuietAndDrive]

For what it's worth I don't like the new Miata at all. Too big, wheels are too big and make the car look goofy..the whole car just looks goofy to me. Then again, I've got an xA, and I'm sure most think it looks like a clown car. But the old Miata's just look much better to me.

[Loren]

Except they didn't keep building them.... Find me an MG or Triumph locally that's less than 25 years old.
The British car industry went under due to mismanagement, true, the days of the LBC are long gone. What I meant was that the lifespan of the more popular models wasn't just 5 or 10 years... and even when it was, the replacement model wasn't bigger, heavier and "fluffier", it still had the same character as the original. For many, many years, they "kept building" LBC's.

Triumph and MG (and a few others) made little sports cars from sometime in the late 40's until 1981. My favorite example, the Spitfire, was designed in the late 50's and was in production from (I think) 1961 until 1981. There were 5 different models of the car in that time, but only two major body styles, and not a single one of them was any "bigger", they merely made improvements to the car and updated it to meet current safety and emissions standards.

Every small, affordable sports car since then has suffered the fate that I spoke of earlier. Instead of sticking with the original formula and serving the market that the original car was designed for, they let the bean counters make the decisions in an effort to make the car palatable to a wider market to make more money. (this goes right back to why the new NC suspension is crap) Invariably, this makes the car less palatable to the market that wanted it in the first place, and ultimately prices it out of its niche and dooms it to failure.

[jaball77]

Every small, affordable sports car since then has suffered the fate that I spoke of earlier. Instead of sticking with the original formula and serving the market that the original car was designed for, they let the bean counters make the decisions in an effort to make the car palatable to a wider market to make more money. (this goes right back to why the new NC suspension is crap) Invariably, this makes the car less palatable to the market that wanted it in the first place, and ultimately prices it out of its niche and dooms it to failure.

Well, if you want to pick nits re: price... A Miata with power steering, AC, and a radio costs LESS than it did in 1990. $15,000 in 1990 dollars = $23,000 in 2006 dollars. MSRP for a 2007 MX-5 Sport 5-speed is $21,500. :)

The other arguments (except for weight) are subjective. :)

[mofugga]

miata's are for chicks & gay men:lol: except jaball's, that thing is kinda manly for a miata:P


car companies are in the business to make money, not keep a small population of owners happy. you think the miata would still be as popular as it is now if they hadn't made any changes to attract more buyers? no. the changes they made to the car have attracted a broader spectrum of buyers which in turn is making them more money. yes it's upset the "purists" of the miata but had they not made these changes i doubt the miata would still be in production. like it or not, in this day & age it's all about making money.

[Muddy]

There be faster and manlier miatas around here than Jason's! :lol:

[jaball77]

There be faster and manlier miatas around here than Jason's! :lol:

Hmmm.... Put on street tires for the 3/18 event and let's see. :)



Anyways... The original point of this thread was that Mazda is creating a modern equivalent of the "R" package to compete with the Solstices. I hope they sell a bunch. I wish they would have had this option when I was shopping!

[treekiller]

You do realize your arguing about who has the maniler miata... he he... your gay.

[mofugga]

You do realize your arguing about who has the maniler miata... he he... your gay.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Muddy]

Hmmm.... Put on street tires for the 3/18 event and let's see. :)
I won't be in town that weekend. How about the 2/25 BMWCCA event? My new azenis should be scrubbed in by then. :)

:lol: Jeff, you are racing an econobox grocery-getter. How fast can you pick me up some bread and milk? :lol:

[jaball77]

I won't be in town that weekend. How about the 2/25 BMWCCA event? My new azenis should be scrubbed in by then. :)

Ugh. I can't stand the BMW course designs they've had at Brooksville. How about an event where you don't have to come to a complete stop and do a 3-point turn? :)

[Spin Out]

Let us know when you two decide on the street tire battle site.
(So we can place side bets.)

MSM Rock!

[Loren]

Muddy, I keep telling Jeff we need to pursue a Kroger sponsorship. "We're goin' to get the groceries!"

[jaball77]

You do realize your arguing about who has the maniler miata... he he... your gay.

Are you 12 years old?

And please learn the difference between "your" and "you're".

Thanks.

[pullg]

Muddy, I keep telling Jeff we need to pursue a Kroger sponsorship. "We're goin' to get the groceries!"
Or pizza. I drove for Domino's when it really was 30 minutes or free...come to think of it, that's about when I started autocrossing, too....

[Slash]

Because the problem isn't the engine?

The oem suspension is shitty. THAT's the problem.

Plus, the 2.3L turbo wouldn't be able to run Showroom stock more than likely. Maybe it would into T2 or something...

Seriously, do you guys think that people who run showroom stock have any real say over the miata's destiny? Most of the world peaks out as track days for racing activity and the miata is painfully slow. The miata is confident and still likes to be tossed around. Its safe and sprightly that make 95% of owners happy. What it lacks that any body can see compared to its competition is power.

I dont feel that the miatas suspension is any worse than the solstice, sky, or aging S2000. If they want to compete with those brands and the new dodge demon they need to make at least 280hp in the Miata. The only complaint ive ever heard about the miata in a magazine, top gear, best motoring, or otherwise is the power. Who cares how shitty it is on azenis or R comps. Most people will never have those tires anyway.

The Lightning Lap - Features - Car and Driver November 2006 (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/11755/the-lightning-lap.html)


Perhaps the sweetest car to drive was the Mazda MX-5. The light, small roadster had sharp and responsive steering, a nicely balanced chassis, and brakes with good bite and decent fade resistance. It also had a great driving position, if we can forget the cup holder in the door that fouled a driver’s left leg. Unfortunately, it had the weakest straight-line performance at VIR and that translated into the slowest lap time — 3:29.3.

Good enough for me.. except the power....

[Muddy]

Ugh. I can't stand the BMW course designs they've had at Brooksville. How about an event where you don't have to come to a complete stop and do a 3-point turn? :)
I like their courses and they are usually pretty open. I don't know where you got the idea that they are so tight you need to do a 3-point turn.

Regardless, I am planning on attending the 4/1 scca event in Gainesville. I don't want to carry my race tires up there, so that would be a good time for me. :)

[jaball77]

I like their courses and they are usually pretty open. I don't know where you got the idea that they are so tight you need to do a 3-point turn.

Regardless, I am planning on attending the 4/1 scca event in Gainesville. I don't want to carry my race tires up there, so that would be a good time for me. :)

Hmm. I thought it was BMW that had the ridiculously tight finishes where you needed first gear...

I've been trying to do more events this year... Maybe I'll try to make it out.

[Muddy]

Hmm. I thought it was BMW that had the ridiculously tight finishes where you needed first gear...

I've been trying to do more events this year... Maybe I'll try to make it out.
Here some videos from a couple BMWCCA events last year to give you an idea what their courses are like.

Video - BMWCCA at Brooksville, 11/20/06. My tires were done by this event. (http://videos.streetfire.net/search/brooksville/0/7067ab8b-2238-4d6d-ae40-98a600928c83.htm)

Video - My fastest run, a 56.3, at the bmwcca event 7/23. (http://videos.streetfire.net/search/bmwcca/0/b6e32ebc-a4f2-43a9-8500-9808012bdc31.htm)

[w0rd]

I think that if you are making huge steering inputs and bogging second gear in a MazdaSpeed Miata, then there might be a problem with the course design. Just my opinion, but the few tight elements in those 2 videos are poorly designed and ruin an otherwise good course.

[Spin Out]

If you don't like a course design, PM the guys that did it.
Most of them are on this site.
The BMW courses are my favorite at Brooksville by far.
(I have not been to a FAST at brookville, but the FAST at St. Pete was awesome.)

I had decided before to be quiet, but might as well say something now.
The last SCCA Sunday was a slalom out, and a slalom back. I hated it.
If I thought they would all be like that, I would stop going.
(The Saturday was great though.)

Courses are not supossed to be easy, and all the same.
Take the random course you get, put on your street tires, and try to beat the clock.

I'll be out at Z-Hills tomorrow putting up an insanely easy course.
Come out Sunday and slide around.

[Muddy]

I think that if you are making huge steering inputs and bogging second gear in a MazdaSpeed Miata, then there might be a problem with the course design. Just my opinion, but the few tight elements in those 2 videos are poorly designed and ruin an otherwise good course.
I agree they aren't the best designed courses, but the have always been fun. :)