FAST - March 18th Autocross

[jblaine]

( Not to be confused with the March 11 Novice School (http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/auto-x-road-racing/369216-fast-novice-school-march-11-spc.html)! )

FAST Autocross Event 3

DATE: 03/18/2007
COST: $30
CITY: Brooksville (http://www.wedrivefast.com/location.cfm)
THE DETAILS / REGISTRATION INFO: Click me! (http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/frmEventDetail.Show?psevent_id=6441)
OFFICIAL EVENT CONVERSATION: Coming soon!
MAIN FAST SITE: FAST (http://www.wedrivefast.com/)

[D-Roll]

More then likely I'll be there.

[treekiller]

Good, Because Next time I'll have the swaybars and bushings on :-) they took forever to come from Austrailia.

[Muddy]

I just found out that due to work, I won't be in town that weekend. D'oh!

[pullg]

Just so no one gives up hope, we're having the event even without Brian.... Only about 2 weeks left to pre-register -- don't wait too long!

[mofugga]

Good, Because Next time I'll have the swaybars and bushings on :-) they took forever to come from Austrailia.

whiteline? it's good shit!

[Superkaioken19]

30 bucks im registering right now... so count me in!

[treekiller]

mofugga, you know it.. Whiteline and superpro. I have been a big fan from when they were "selbys" swaybars "the ones that stay harder longer"

only ones that do a "proper" swaybar kit for the B15 too bad it's not adjustable.

[ph0tek]

Count me in.

I havent autox since 2002, figure Im about due....

[Hater]

i'll be there, IF i can get new tires by then lol. Camber wear dosnt make for very good turning :lol:

[pullg]

Just a reminder that there are SEVEN DAYS left to register for this event. Registration ends 8 March, after which the list gets turned into the airport authorities. We cannot add anyone -- drivers or guests -- after 8 March, so get your names in while there's still time!

[Alizarin]

I have been informed that we only have about 35 entries for this event. What happened with the freaking 90 we had last month? People lost interest? I don't think it'll be in the 20's that day...

[AScoda]

If anyone was scared off by my obviously confusing course design last event, fear not, I will not be involved in the course design of this months event. :lol:
Autocross events in general are much simpler in design. I, however, seek out the unexplored, the unique and different. I attempt to acheive autocross epiphany with a lowly Ford Mustang for chrissake.
Come on out, you will have a blast.

[pullg]

Even for the last event, many of the entries came in the last two weeks before the deadline. I think we'll pick up some additional folks.

[Jordan Y.]

I have been informed that we only have about 35 entries for this event. What happened with the freaking 90 we had last month? People lost interest? I don't think it'll be in the 20's that day...

I would sign up but I'm attending the autocross school a mere week before this event. I have a goal of going to at least one autocross a month from here on out, but two in two weeks is a bit much right off the bat.

[treekiller]

jordan, it's important to get to an autocross while the information is fresh in your brain. but... if you can't go.

[Muddy]

The more seat time you get, the faster you will learn. Do as many events as your pocketbook can manage. :D

[Jordan Y.]

Can you put your name on the security list just to make sure you could get in when the time comes and then hold off on payment until the day of the event, or do you have to preregister and pre-pay? My pocketbook is a concern between the Auto-X school, the TRack day I just signed up for, and the associated car expenses. It's all got to come out of a 12-hr-a-week part-time student job budget.

If I can just put myself on the list now I'll do so, and make the final decision on whether I can afford it right before the event.

[Alizarin]

If you register on MyAutoEvents you can use the option to register but pay on site.

And Jordan, there's nothing wrong with going to an auto-x 2 weeks in a row. In October last year I did 3 events in the same month. In this case, it'll give you a chance to apply your new skillz to a fresh course.

[Jordan Y.]

If I do that, do I have the option to cancel at some point before the event (without annoying FAST)?

[mofugga]

If I do that, do I have the option to cancel at some point before the event (without annoying FAST)?

you don't really need to cancel cause if you cancel after the list is turned into the airport noone can register in your place, assuming the event was full. when beginning to autox it's definately best to go to as many as you can afford/have the the time for.

[Native]

There's a registration option to pre-register and pay on-site if you make it. So, yes, you can sign up (and be on the list), not pay, and then not show up. No need to cancel, although it is courteous to do so, in case the event is full and someone is hoping for a spot to open (at least if it's before the deadline).

Of course, we'd like to have everyone who registers show up - but we understand sometimes it just doesn't work out.

This isn't annoying... :cool:

[Loren]

Annoying would be pre-paying and not showing up. If you've pre-payed and you need to cancel, it would be courteous to do so before the event.

[pullg]

...yes, you can sign up (and be on the list), not pay, and then not show up.
Although if you find you're not going to make it, do at least drop an e-mail to wedrivefaster@yahoo.com -- even last-minute notification helps with planning run groups the night before!

[Jordan Y.]

I'm going to talk to a friend and see if I can convince him to co-drive the car. How does co-driving registration work out? Is it just the standard registration at 30 bucks each, but you list the same car and number for both drivers?

[Loren]

You each register separately with different numbers. You just have to hustle to switch out drivers within your run group.

Remembering to change the numbers on the car is critical to timing getting the correct times associated with each driver!

Most people choose a set of numbers that's easy to change, something that only requires adding/removing a single digit. Like 2/21 or 69/169.

[D-Roll]

Registered :headbang:

[stealthc9]

lol i'm registered w. my girlfriend as a guest and emergency contact

[stealthc9]

would an m2005 open face helmet be suitible for this event?

[AScoda]

Yes it will

[pullg]

It's deliberately not difficult -- per FAST - Autocross (http://wedrivefast.com/rules.cfm) :
We have eight classes, loosely categorized by displacement, modifications, and tires. Clarifications are listed below the classes.


A - Modified race tire (all)
B - Production race tire 3 liters and greater
C - Production race tire less than 3 liters
D - Modified street tire 3 liters and greater
E - Modified street tire less than 3 liters
F - Production street tire 3 liters and greater
G - Production street tire less than 3 liters
R - Open or closed wheel race cars (all)
Modified cars are production-based cars with any of the following modifications:


Any internal engine modification (crank, cams, rods, pistons)
Any external engine modification that alters fuel delivery (alternate carb, altered fuel injection, fuel-air ratio adjusters)
Any non-factory engine replacement
Welded chassis reinforcement, including welded roll bars/cages
Alternate or altered springs
Altered suspension geometry (relocated pickup points, alternate suspension parts to increase factory alignment adjustment range such as camber kits, camber plates, or slotted strut mounts)
Alternate main body panels (doors, hood, trunk lid, fenders, roof panel, windows)
Removal of factory interior parts (seats, interior panels)
Other classing notes:


Any and all modifications not listed are allowed in the production classes.
Street tires are DOT approved tires with treadwear rating of 140 or above.
Forced induction (turbo or supercharger) bumps engine displacement by a factor of 1.5. (e.g. a 2.2 liter turbocharged engine would be classed as 3.1 liter)
Any non-production based vehicle (such as kit cars or tube-framed "look-alikes") will be classed as a "Race Car" unless deemed an appropriate fit for a lesser class.

If you need to change your class, just go back to the entry list on MAE and edit your entry.

[AScoda]

These might be a little clearer for new people if listed like this:

A - Modified / race tire (all)
B - Stock / race tire / 3 liters and greater
C - Stock / race tire / less than 3 liters
D - Modified / street tire / 3 liters and greater
E - Modified / street tire / less than 3 liters
F - Stock / street tire / 3 liters and greater
G - Stock / street tire / less than 3 liters
R - Open or closed wheel race cars (all)

[treekiller]

there is a small error in the classing, a 1998cc evo or wrx could be considered under 3litre... many rally rules use a 1.7 for petrol and 1.5 for diesel forced induction, in addition a .8 multiplier for Pushrod engines. (so the big v6 GM/ford cars can be under 3 litre) also a 1.5 is used for a rotary so a turbo rotary motor would be. 1.3x1.5x1.7 = 3.3 litre. much more reasonable set of groupings.

[w0rd]

yeah, my car is the same way....
1998 cc x 1.5 = 2997cc

However, I believe the the rules say 3.0L and above. Using significant digits your displacement would actually have to be 2949cc/1.5= 1966cc or less to be considered under 3.0L.

If the rules said 3.000L and above, you would be correct. :)

[pullg]

there is a small error in the classing, a 1998cc evo or wrx could be considered under 3litre...
This isn't NASCAR, and you're not Smokey Yunick...if it makes you feel better, pretend it's 1.549 rounded to 1.5 for print. :cool:

many rally rules use a 1.7 for petrol and 1.5 for diesel forced induction....
If someone with blown Rabbit Diesel starts showing up regularly and complains about being spanked by turbo Miatas, we'll revisit.

...in addition a .8 multiplier for Pushrod engines. (so the big v6 GM/ford cars can be under 3 litre) also a 1.5 is used for a rotary so a turbo rotary motor would be. 1.3x1.5x1.7 = 3.3 litre. much more reasonable set of groupings.
Someone take away Jeff's calculator....

[Jordan Y.]

So wait, my car has a turbo 1998cc engine. Am I in E Mod or D mod?

[w0rd]

D
1998cc x 1.5 = 2997cc = 3.0L

And it's not D mod, it's just D.
D Mod is an SCCA class.

[D-Roll]

Finally the classes are revealed :)

[mofugga]

i always thought it was pretty easy to figure out what class your car is in.

[Native]

:( I'm sorry but it's too late to add anyone to the entry list. The airport requires an attendance list well in advance. Your buddy is more than welcome to come out to the next event.

[Alizarin]

I'll be running street tires for this event. Since I'll be trying out the new timer software, I don't want to have the hassle of changing tires, cramming all the stuff in my car, etc. This way I can show up, set things up, and drive like crap (as usual).

[treekiller]

yeah, my car is the same way....
1998 cc x 1.5 = 2997cc

However, I believe the the rules say 3.0L and above. Using significant digits your displacement would actually have to be 2949cc/1.5= 1966cc or less to be considered under 3.0L.

If the rules said 3.000L and above, you would be correct. :)


wow a logical, concise and direct answer. thank you. that answers a lot, now if the rotary issue was solved life would be good.

[MicheleR]

I am so psyched!! I will be in the Dark Green G3 Integra with Red Rota GT3's make sure to say hello and introduce yourself. I will be with my BF Darryl..

see you guys there

and i goofed and put myself in the wrong class. I assumed it was the same classes as SCCA...my bad
Im such a newb..:lol:

[Alizarin]

I'll be running street tires for this event. Since I'll be trying out the new timer software, I don't want to have the hassle of changing tires, cramming all the stuff in my car, etc. This way I can show up, set things up, and drive like crap (as usual).
I guess I will be running the R-comps... I found out this morning that Sunday's activities at the novice school caused my streets to chunk a bit. Don't want to risk any more damage to them since they're not very old.

[jaball77]

Since I'll be trying out the new timer software

What software are you guys using?

I wanna check out those timers too... They look more durable than our (SCCA's) laser-on-a-tripod things... Are they easy to set up and align?

[pullg]

...if the rotary issue was solved life would be good.
Nothing to solve -- we all discussed this at length at the start of the season. I copied the 1.5*displacement factor from Japanese industry practice. Seems pretty reasonable -- a boosted 13B or Renesis can churn out quite a bit of power.

If the classing rules cause you so much discomfort, you're welcome to propose changes for next season...will cheerfully give you the job at double the rate of pay I'm getting.

[Loren]

Yeah, the thing everyone needs to understand is that a group of people spent a solid month debating how to set up our classing and rules. They're good enough for now, we're not changing them for this season.

If a group of rotary guys shows up and cleans our clocks, so be it!

We'll make adjustments at the end of the season based on the results of this season to improve our classing for next year.

[Rosko]

I just want to say the best thing about FAST is the classing method. Kudos to the creators. It's simple, yet effective - perfect for our local level where driving talent is more a factor than the car - as opposed to SCCA which is complicated and catered to competition at the national level.

[Alizarin]

What software are you guys using?

I wanna check out those timers too... They look more durable than our (SCCA's) laser-on-a-tripod things... Are they easy to set up and align?
We're using the AXWare software, which is what I've seen used by local SCCA people also. Makes it easy to find people to run timing, although from playing around with the software it's not terribly difficult. I have evil plans for the future of timing so we'll see how things shape up.

The timer lights aren't terribly difficult to set up and align, at least from my view. ;) If you'll be at this month's event I can show you how to set things up, since I won't be at April's event.

[jaball77]

It's simple, yet effective - perfect for our local level where driving talent is more a factor than the car - as opposed to SCCA which is complicated and catered to competition at the national level.

Yeah... I'll remember that when I'm getting slaughtered by a noob in an Elise, haha.


The timer lights aren't terribly difficult to set up and align, at least from my view. ;) If you'll be at this month's event I can show you how to set things up, since I won't be at April's event.

Okay, yeah. We've been using AxWare at the CFR SCCA for a while now...

I'll definitely take a look at the lights. :)

[pullg]

The timer lights aren't terribly difficult to set up and align, at least from my view.
That's unique to Kenny.... :)

[Loren]

They're usually pretty easy to set up as long as you remember two things: 1. Strong batteries! (especially if you're going for more than 20 feet between the transmitter and receiver) 2. Think in 3 dimensions, if the two heads are tilted down or up, it won't matter if your left/right alignment is correct.

I've never used the reflector style lights, but with no batteries to maintain... they would have some advantages.

[Alizarin]

That's unique to Kenny.... :)
All that means is that at some point, I will suddenly lose "the touch" and will never be able to align the lights again.

[jaball77]

They're usually pretty easy to set up as long as you remember two things: 1. Strong batteries! (especially if you're going for more than 20 feet between the transmitter and receiver) 2. Think in 3 dimensions, if the two heads are tilted down or up, it won't matter if your left/right alignment is correct.

Hmm, yeah. I don't like the idea of counting on batteries for timing...

Unless maybe it's that bitchin' Tag Heuer wireless timing system, heh.

[AScoda]

Yeah... I'll remember that when I'm getting slaughtered by a noob in an Elise, haha.

Elises come factory equipped with what we would class as race tires, so you should be in different classes.

Edit: Spoke too soon. The sports are equipped with Advan A048s but are optional on non-sport versions. Standard is a 140TW michelin. maybe.;)

[D-Roll]

Great day to run! 8 runs :headbang: The best time I pulled was 52.970 :)

[w0rd]

A few pictures from my crap camera of heat 1...
Index of /freshnclean/autox (http://web.tampabay.rr.com/freshnclean/autox/)

[D-Roll]

A few pictures from my crap camera of heat 1...
Index of /freshnclean/autox (http://web.tampabay.rr.com/freshnclean/autox/)

Damn it, only heat one? None of heat 2?

[w0rd]

I was driving in heat 2. :)

[stealthc9]

my shift linkage broke so i couldn't make it since none of the junkyards around here don't have parts for dodge shadows or plymouth sundances w. manual trannys :-(

[JBlaze]

Yesterday Was a good day getting 8 runs and my time going down on each run. Only part that sucked was my last two runs I had +1 on each.

[Alizarin]

For those that care or haven't visited the official thread, the results are up (http://www.wedrivefast.com/Results.cfm)

[Jordan Y.]

Yesterday Was a good day getting 8 runs and my time going down on each run. Only part that sucked was my last two runs I had +1 on each.

What the heck is that +1? +2 is cone knocked down out of box, is +1 cone knocked down inside box?

[w0rd]

+1 means you hit one cone. You usually say your time plus how many cones you hit.

[Rosko]

For those that care or haven't visited the official thread, the results are up (http://www.wedrivefast.com/Results.cfm)

That 51.4 for number 73 (me) was dirty. I hit 1 cone on that run. My best clean time was 52.2XX. Can you correct that?

[Loren]

Eh, you're still first in your class. It would just move a couple people up in the raw times.

[Alizarin]

That 51.4 for number 73 (me) was dirty. I hit 1 cone on that run. My best clean time was 52.2XX. Can you correct that?
I was just going by what the sheet said. When I get home tonight I'll take a look and make sure.

[jblaine]

That 51.4 for number 73 (me) was dirty. I hit 1 cone on that run. My best clean time was 52.2XX. Can you correct that?
Thank you for being honest and bringing it up!

[Alizarin]

And he was correct, he did hit a cone. I must've either miskeyed or just outright missed it all together.

[Ro.]

I heard people auto-x odysseys here...

[Loren]

I heard people auto-x odysseys here...

What does this have to do with the March 18th autocross? I'd suggest you start another topic to ask your question.