JL W7 vs Alpine Type X [Archive]

View Full Version : JL W7 vs Alpine Type X

djgizmo

11-14-2006, 07:52 PM

Ok, just wanted to see where this debate would go, so have it.

3 categories.
SPL:
SQ:
Overal bang for your buck:

Which do you think is better? Now that I have my system finished. (and fairly happy with it) I'm already planning my next stage, more powwwwaa and bass.

the727kid

11-14-2006, 08:23 PM

I would say SPL: W7 SQ: X Bang for Buck: X

Notladstyle

11-15-2006, 07:45 AM

^ uhhuh im sure you would. Unfortunately here in the real worlds its more like

SPL: w7
SQ: w7
Cheaper price: Type X

TBSpyder

11-15-2006, 11:44 AM

W7 across the board.

tical_30

11-15-2006, 11:48 AM

my brother has a jl w6 and i have a alpine type r, on those 2 speakers, the jl bumps alot nicer, but the alpine is so much more clear and crisp with the different notes

djgizmo

11-15-2006, 12:01 PM

Not to be an ass (even though I can be at times), but the discussion is between W7 and the Type X, not the W6.

my brother has a jl w6 and i have a alpine type r, on those 2 speakers, the jl bumps alot nicer, but the alpine is so much more clear and crisp with the different notes

J Phat

11-15-2006, 12:11 PM

dude u should get the jl w6 v2 13.5 inches it fuckin slams i have one in my hatch

the727kid

11-15-2006, 12:59 PM

Also the Type-X will hit notes a lot better, W7s are known to miss. (must be too much wooshyness)

Notladstyle

11-15-2006, 04:09 PM

how come all these phantom noobs pop up from nowhere and start talking about their homeboys 8000watt woofer that bangs louder than anyhting in the hood y0?

djgizmo

11-15-2006, 05:19 PM

No thanks. I'm trying to be as compact as possible, I don't want 13 or 12" woofers. Again, this discussion is between the W7s vs Type Xs

dude u should get the jl w6 v2 13.5 inches it fuckin slams i have one in my hatch

TIM TIM TIM

11-15-2006, 08:19 PM

eclipse titanuim

TBSpyder

11-15-2006, 10:57 PM

W7s are known to miss.

Really? I've personally installed hundreds of these and that's the first I've heard that one.:dunno:

the727kid

11-15-2006, 11:16 PM

You've installed hunreds? Hard to believe you work at a shop that sells 100s of $1000 subs.

I personally never heard one miss, but yet again I have only heard them a few times with unfamiliar songs. But I have heard from several W7s owners that they miss some.

TBSpyder

11-15-2006, 11:27 PM

the727kid

11-15-2006, 11:36 PM

W7s really sell that much? Anyways, dunno it's what I heard from W7 owners.

TBSpyder

11-16-2006, 12:10 AM

W7s really sell that much? Anyways, dunno it's what I heard from W7 owners.

Suggested retail, yeah. They usually sell for much less though.

the727kid

11-16-2006, 12:24 AM

I mean't like, they sell in that much quantity. I can't see more than 4-5 W7s selling a month at that price from a single store.

93ex

11-16-2006, 08:46 AM

I mean't like, they sell in that much quantity. I can't see more than 4-5 W7s selling a month at that price from a single store.

and over 3 years thats about 150-180.

djgizmo

11-16-2006, 09:03 AM

not talking about eclipse. don't care about them at the moment.

eclipse titanuim

jdmrasta

11-16-2006, 10:33 PM

TYPE X. cleanest bass and cheaper!

djgizmo

11-17-2006, 12:12 PM

Wonder if any shop would have both alpine and jl for a side by side test. each in a seal box powered by a hefty 750-1000 watt amp.

the727kid

11-17-2006, 12:26 PM

Sound Advice?

TBSpyder

11-17-2006, 12:40 PM

Wonder if any shop would have both alpine and jl for a side by side test. each in a seal box powered by a hefty 750-1000 watt amp.

We did have the X and W7 hooked up side by side at Sound Advice, not sure if it's still like that though. They could be played off the JL 1000/1, although the room didn't have a converter big enough to properly supply the 1000/1 to it's full potential. From my experience with the two subs, the W7 takes the cake. The X never impressed me, and it never sold.

Notladstyle

11-17-2006, 05:26 PM

Also the Type-X will hit notes a lot better, W7s are known to miss. (must be too much wooshyness)

I heard you've been known to miss (must be too much kicker).

TJElite

11-18-2006, 12:56 PM

Wonder if any shop would have both alpine and jl for a side by side test. each in a seal box powered by a hefty 750-1000 watt amp.

In anything other than a car (the same car) this test would be almost useless. Acoustic loading and coupling in a room is totally different than in a car.

Toby

POST

11-18-2006, 01:05 PM

In anything other than a car (the same car) this test would be almost useless. Acoustic loading and coupling in a room is totally different than in a car.

Toby

yeah there are too many stupid factors to consider.

How well the car lets the bass resonate
how much the car rattles to sound
how well the cabin is insulated from the trunk

even how fast you're driving. the road noise introduces some annoying sounds (if your car is prone to it)

the727kid

11-18-2006, 01:28 PM

I heard you've been known to miss (must be too much kicker).

Lol, what? I hate Kicker products, well except for that very flexible 0 gauge.

djgizmo

11-19-2006, 09:52 AM

Agreed, just was getting a lil ahead of myself.

In anything other than a car (the same car) this test would be almost useless. Acoustic loading and coupling in a room is totally different than in a car.

Toby

jriggs

11-20-2006, 12:53 PM

W7s really sell that much? Anyways, dunno it's what I heard from W7 owners.

:wave: from a w7 owner
i've never heard my pair of w7s miss

i'd go w7 if you have the coin for them

racerraul

11-30-2006, 10:55 AM

Anyone here can perform any tests?
Here is a hypothesis for anyone to start a controlled test instead of a fanboy debate.

W7 will win in SPL. More Excursion.
Type-X will win in SQ. Copper in the coil has its merits.

Notladstyle

11-30-2006, 03:25 PM

racerraul

11-30-2006, 06:14 PM

Seriously...

Scientific test can't be argued against.

Eclipse99RS

11-30-2006, 07:12 PM

Seriously...

Scientific test can't be argued against.

It might have a better material used to make the voice coil, but that doesn't mean its put together better. How many times its wrapped, how thick the coil is, how tall it is all play major roles in how a subwoofer performs. Better material doesn't always mean better performance.

Notladstyle

11-30-2006, 09:15 PM

dont argue with the noobs.

the727kid

11-30-2006, 09:52 PM

So...let me get this right. More excursion = spl?? Geez I should be hitting like 180dB with the excursion on my subs. :lol::lol::lol:

Eclipse99RS

12-01-2006, 02:31 AM

dont argue with the noobs.
a yesa masta.... me does it no more... lol its so hard not to sometimes cause they are just so lost.

Notladstyle

12-01-2006, 09:27 AM

TBSpyder

12-01-2006, 11:16 AM

Kirk has a typeX now - we will have our SPL scores on that. Now I just need to find someone with a W7 in the same box so we can test that too...

Probably wouldn't be too fair of a test being in a convertible. :lol: I still say the W7 is by far a better sub though.

racerraul

12-01-2006, 02:15 PM

dont argue with the noobs.
LOL :lol:

You the man around here right?

- Explain to your audience what a hypothesis is...
- Why a controlled scientific test would provide better answers for open debate than the fan boy BS going on here like every other damn vs thread on the net...
- And educate them on the use of copper shorting rings in the coil, who uses them & the test results

I love car audio just as much as you guys... its not like I came on here saying a cap will will you better SQ or 8ga speaker wire on tweeters will improve tweeter detail...

racerraul

12-01-2006, 02:20 PM

Kirk has a typeX now - we will have our SPL scores on that. Now I just need to find someone with a W7 in the same box so we can test that too...

the prob is the amp/wiring/install will make or break any scores recorded to this is a purely fanboy debate that will never have an end.

But personally, Ive seen a typex taken apart and Ive seen a W7 taken apart. and the w7 hands down is bigger, meaner, and will take much more abuse...

This noob thinks that you shouldn't bother if you are not going to go the distance and eliminate variables that may not tell the whole story.

Your last statement there sure sounds like, you may side with my guess...

I would also be very intested in your setup to obtain SQ data. I may be a noob but your ears are as good as mine & anyone else that is capable of seat time...

Eclipse99RS

12-01-2006, 06:04 PM

LOL :lol:

You the man around here right?

- Explain to your audience what a hypothesis is...
- Why a controlled scientific test would provide better answers for open debate than the fan boy BS going on here like every other damn vs thread on the net...
- And educate them on the use of copper shorting rings in the coil, who uses them & the test results

I love car audio just as much as you guys... its not like I came on here saying a cap will will you better SQ or 8ga speaker wire on tweeters will improve tweeter detail...

The comment wasn't directed towards me but I'll respond to your questions/comments anyways...

1)A hypothesis is an educated guess based on previous observations, theories and other scientific experiments.

2)Yes, a controlled test would provide better results than a debate - but your short coming is all you "proved" is that if two coils were made to the same specs and one was made with copper windings, the copper one would out perform the other coil (I'm not even sure that the copper would out-perform JL Audio's aluminum alloy either, I'm just going off your he-said she-said proof. I would actually like to know where you got your information).

3)The problem is: Alpine's Type-X coils are not the same thickness, diameter, or height as JL Audio's W7 so comparing which one is better by the type of material used to wind the voice coil is by no means a valid argument.

One other thing I thought was pretty funny was, you said the Type-X had more excursion, but with the info of the manufacture's web sites, the Alpine has an Xmax of 22mm and the JL has an Xmax of 29 mm, and that is comparing the 12inch models.

And here are the links to the website so you can read for your self:
Alpine:

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. (http://www.alpine-usa.com/en/products/product.php?model=SWX-1242D&lang=en&tab=F)
JL Audio:
JL Audio Products: Subwoofers / 12W7 (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=9)

POST

12-01-2006, 10:06 PM

I love car audio just as much as you guys... its not like I came on here saying a cap will will you better SQ or 8ga speaker wire on tweeters will improve tweeter detail...

Yeah I agree, at least you have that. I cant tell you how much those people annoy me, just as much as the know-it-all bastards that have humongous car setups and swear because of this they're audio gods and we should kneel and suck them off as they walk by.

Don't let these guys get to you though, they just like to argue :lol:

racerraul

12-01-2006, 11:36 PM

The comment wasn't directed towards me but I'll respond to your questions/comments anyways...

1)A hypothesis is an educated guess based on previous observations, theories and other scientific experiments.
Thanks... at least now we understand that I am no newb & perhaps there is a remote chance I am capable of research, perhaps better than some on here....

2)Yes, a controlled test would provide better results than a debate - but your short coming is all you "proved" is that if two coils were made to the same specs and one was made with copper windings, the copper one would out perform the other coil (I'm not even sure that the copper would out-perform JL Audio's aluminum alloy either, I'm just going off your he-said she-said proof. I would actually like to know where you got your information).
Ok... quote me ;) You obviously didn't read my Hypothesis very well. And despite the fact you know what that is, you contradict yourself in claiming I "proved" something (other than the fact that I can take a guess as good as perhaps, you?)... why? I clearly didn't give too much detail for there to be any assumptions of ANY shortcomings or any proven theories... Don't read between the lines man... no need to.

3)The problem is: Alpine's Type-X coils are not the same thickness, diameter, or height as JL Audio's W7 so comparing which one is better by the type of material used to wind the voice coil is by no means a valid argument.
Woah!!! Did I say one was better than the other, or did I predict outcomes to a test yet to be performed. Hey bud it was an observation, based on it I made a hypothesis. I didn't knock either sub. Or is it beyond your scientific comprehension that while the diff may show up, the may be great or negligible???
By the way, it sounds as if you don't know what copper shorting rings are. Forgive my lack of explanation... Copper in the coil assembly NOT the coil windings.

You clearly have no idea what I am talking about & why I happen to like this feature in raw drivers...

A copper ring is added to the pole piece to counter the effects of back EMF (electromotive force), resulting in reduced second harmonic distortion.

As most RAW drivers show in their test data... something missing in the car audio world because it is a unique market in that (for some reason) brand name speaks louder than scientific tests to newbs like me... :lol:

One other thing I thought was pretty funny was, you said the Type-X had more excursion, but with the info of the manufacture's web sites, the Alpine has an Xmax of 22mm and the JL has an Xmax of 29 mm, and that is comparing the 12inch models.
I did??? You might want to read my posts again.

Thanks for the JL links. I am very much aware of JL since the late 80's.

Did I piss someone off on here... or do you guys give such warm welcomes to new guys.

TBSpyder

12-01-2006, 11:45 PM

Did I piss someone off on here... or do you guys give such warm welcomes to new guys.

No, that's just car audio in general. Everyone knows everything. :D

Eclipse99RS

12-02-2006, 12:07 AM

Misread a couple of your posts and got them mixed up. Selective reading. My mistake.

Notladstyle

12-02-2006, 12:12 AM

this thread is stupid - meter the subs in their factory spec enclosures with the same amp and then continue. Theres one things that is time & time again proven and thats that theoretical numbers and specs never pan out how you think.

P52ENVY

12-06-2006, 07:10 PM

LOL I love JL debates! I have been offline for a minute and I'LL be damned if nothing changes!
I would Have to agree that the w7 is hands down a better sub! Also in my opinion the w6 hits harder than the w7 but the w7 is ALOT cleaner and better for sq! Also most people that want REAL SQ don't like the w6 or w7 due to the fact that for SQ it is too much bass, thats why I don't compete in sq!

the727kid

12-06-2006, 08:04 PM

I'm yet to hear a W7 that evens budges my opinion of garbage sq...althought I have only heard several w7 setups. Am I the only one on here that hears the "wooshy" sound they make?

P52ENVY

12-06-2006, 08:15 PM

I do believe so!
I'm yet to hear a W7 that evens budges my opinion of garbage sq...althought I have only heard several w7 setups. Am I the only one on here that hears the "wooshy" sound they make?

Notladstyle

12-06-2006, 08:20 PM

I'm yet to hear a W7 that evens budges my opinion of garbage sq...althought I have only heard several w7 setups. Am I the only one on here that hears the "wooshy" sound they make?

... crickets

TBSpyder

12-06-2006, 09:59 PM

I'm yet to hear a W7 that evens budges my opinion of garbage sq...althought I have only heard several w7 setups. Am I the only one on here that hears the "wooshy" sound they make?

I think so. The w7 is a tried and true sub. Maybe you should get your ears checked.

the727kid

12-06-2006, 10:12 PM

I know I ain't the only one, because I have read many reviews of the sub saying the same.