please help if you can..95 neon wont start

[DonnaD]

:oops: I have been all over the internet chatting with different Neon owners groups. I have a 95 Neon, I was really proud of myself when I found it. It only has 40,000 miles on it, one owner, all of the maintence receipts in the glove box. Problem is it died on the road one day. Just quit for what seemed to be no apparent reason. I pulled the diagnost codes & found I needed to replace a sensor, and the ECM. Well, I've done both and still not turning over. I need a good, honest mechanic in the area who does side jobs. Anybody here know of a good mechanic? If so, I certainly would be grateful. I'm a single mom, trying to fix this on my own & it's not easy. I've learned more about cars in the past few years than I ever thought I would. I've even been to a junk yard to pull the parts that I needed. All I'm looking for is an honest mechanic. Please help if you can. thanks

[scnat]

going to move this to try to get you some help

[Josiah]

what codes are you pulling? also a good site for all kinds of technical info is neons.org...post in the forums there...if I were still living in FL I'd fix it for you, and there are quite a few others willing to help you out, you can also check out floridaneons.org for some more localized help

things that cause neons to die suddenly:
bad fuel pump or fuel pump fuse
bad ECM...though I have never heard of one failing...well, the voltage regulator in mine doesnt work anymore, but I bypassed that
bad crankshaft postion sensor
bad coil
broken timing belt(the most serious but the least likely if the car has only 46K on it...my timing belt snapped at 106k miles...they are supposed to last around 100k, I neglected the maitenence on that engine since I was building one to replace it...which I finished the day it snapped)

also check the engine ignition feed fuse inside the cabin fusebox, mine kept blowing because a wire in the harness got burnt through by the EGR tube and shorting...but it will shut the car down if blown

[DonnaD]

I was pulling codes 53 (internal failure) and 12. Now that I've replaced the sensor & ECM the codes have cleared but, car will not start.

[DonnaD]

I'm wondering if it's the timing, my cousin was here trying to help me & that's what he thought it was, but, didn't have a tool long enough to get the spark plug out. Please understand, I'm a single mom, just trying to do things myself, I don't have a lot of tools, but, after 4 days reading everything I can on the internet, I think I know something about these cars. I've pulled my own parts at the junkyard (can you imagine your mom doing this? LOL). I'm trying here guys. Fuses are all good, that was checked, but, I failed to mention, sorry. I'm thinking it's either the timing like my cousin thought or the crankshaft position sensor, but, then again, crankshaft position sensor wouldn't have been three words I could have put together a week ago, which is why I'm looking for some help from someone out there that has the knowledge and needs a little cash.

[Josiah]

doubtful that its the timing...unless the timing belt skipped a tooth...which generally only happens if the tensioner goes bad or the engine is being revved at 7500+ rpm...as far as spark timing goes...the computer controls that and it cant be adjusted....are you getting spark to the spark plugs? fuel to the fuel rail? generally if the CPS(crank sensor) goes the computer will throw a code for that, and to let you know...95s are just a little different than 96-99 cars...you might also want the read the TSBs(technical service bulletins) which you can find on the main page at neons.org and check the service recalls for the 95 year as well

one other thing, remove the timing belt cover inspection plate(held in place by one 8mm bolt on a DOHC...not sure exactly how on the SOHC but if I remember correctly you remove the entire upper cover) and inspect the visual parts of the timing belt for damage...this will tell you if the belt has skipped teeth...skipping teeth damages these belts...you would actually have to turn the entire engine over by hand to inspect the entire belt though, the car would need to be in nuetral and the crank bolt is 19mm

[DonnaD]

I also know that I'm getting fuel to the fuel rail. That is why everyone is stumped. Everything SEEMS to be ok, and now that the codes have cleared, other than the 12 for the battery disconnect, I don't know where to look next.
I was looking at the cover for the timing belt. It does appear that the entire cover has to be removed. Can you explain what you mean by "you would actually have to turn the entire engine over by hand to inspect the entire belt though, the car would need to be in nuetral and the crank bolt is 19mm". (Please be patient with me, remember, I'm just a dumb woman trying to get this fixed):oops:

[DonnaD]

I did find this recall, I'm wondering if it's already been done though, because one thing that stumped me was a sticker on the ECM dated 7/94 and the car is a 95. Any thoughts? rc614 (http://www.neons.org/neontsb/TSB/recall/rc614.htm)

[cali]

Couple of questions:
Does the engine turn over when cranked? ( ie make an attempt to start)
Can you confirm that you get spark? ( this can usually be done by pulling a spark plug wire form the valve cover, and putting it close to any metal nearby). You will either hear or see sparks.

Also, post you area where you are located...maybe someone is in your area.

[Dano Moparo]

Did you happen to drive through some water recently?

And yes post where your located, that will help find someone in your area.

[DonnaD]

yes, there is spark, we saw spark. the engine attempts to start, it almost does a little jerk trying. I haven't driven in any water. I'm located in Tampa FL. One thing someone said is that there wasn't the smell of gas on the spark plugs. He said he should be able to smell gas. I opened up the fuel rail and there is definately fuel there. all the fuses were checked and rechecked. Do you think it would be a wise investment for me to get one of those hand held diagnostic machines? I'm really at my wit's end here. :(

[phillupmacrevis]

those are a rip-off......my sisters car is having a similar problem.....i cant figure it out, it gets spark, fuel, air....i dunno...


if the timing was off it wouldnt spark....so that rules that out...

did you say u got parts from the junkyard??
does that include the sensor you neede, you should always buy those new....

have you checked compression the of the cylenders....?

[DonnaD]

I wouldn't know how to check compression if I tried. Yes, I did get the sensor from the junk yard, and from what you stated, guess I am lucky that it cleared the diagnostic codes for me. Next time I will definetely get sensors new.

[phillupmacrevis]

good luck....

[phillupmacrevis]

oh.....check your ground strap....its rare, but it may have come off or broken......if it does the car wont run...

its a braided steel (flat)...wire that goes from the pass side fender to the back of the head on the left side on the back......

make sure its connected.....

[Josiah]

I did find this recall, I'm wondering if it's already been done though, because one thing that stumped me was a sticker on the ECM dated 7/94 and the car is a 95. Any thoughts? rc614 (http://www.neons.org/neontsb/TSB/recall/rc614.htm)

a date of 7/94 is a 95 production year car...and just to let you know just because the fuel pump primes(sends a priming pulse to the injectors) does not mean that it continues to pump afterward...it may just prime and shut off...mine did when I swapped to a standalone since the CPS was no longer being read...what you want to do is open the fuel door and listen when someone is attempting to start the car to see if the pump continues to operate after the priming pulse...on the bright side your crank sensor is fine if you are getting spark