14.4v??

[KartRex]

So i was sitting here readying about this mrd1005 alpine amp and i read that it will only get the 1000rms at 2ohms with 14.4volt? How is it possible to get 14.4v's to the amp. And is it possible to get 14.4vs to 3 amps LMK thanks pCe.

[TJElite]

That's the CEA 2006 standard, which I think is bogus...It requires all amps to be rated at 14.4v, and the max power rating is also allowed to be at 1% THD.

Technically, the correct charge voltage for a 12v system is 14.4v, but that almost never occurs in a car, and even more rarely at the end of an amp wire, while lots of current is flowing. One of the reasons I like Crossfire is that they rate their amps at 12v, and if you get more than 12, you get more power. The VR1000d, for example, is 1000w at 12 v, and over 1300 at 14.4. Sadly crossfire's new amps will be rated at 13.8v, to better keep up with the industry, without completely selling out. I guess the industry needed a standard, I just don't like this one.

Is it possible to get 14.4v to one or three amps? Sure, its possible. Pratical, probably not. You'd have to start with an alternator with a voltage regulator set higher than 14.4v, to cover the voltage drop from the power wire. In a standard trunk mounted amp install, that drop can be up to .5v, or more, depending on what size wire you use, and how much current you draw. So figure on an alternator with a 15v setpoint. Next, this alternator would have to be able to provide all the current needed by the amps at full tilt. If its your only alternator, it would also have to provide all the current needed for the car, as well. Once you exceed what the alternator can put out, you start pulling from the battery. Since its voltage max is down around 13.2 volts, you won't have 14.4 anymore.

I could go on, but you get the point. Maintaining 14.4v to even one amp drawing a fair amount of current is difficult. 3 amps, is extremely difficult. The good news is that it doesn't make much difference.

Take your 1000w rms example above. 1000 watts into 2 ohms @14.4 will be somewhere around 700 watts at 12v. While that sounds like your losing a lot, you're really not. Let's say 700 watts will make 130db on a set of subs. All else being equal, it would take 1400 watts to be 3db louder. So at 1000 watts, you'd be 1 db louder, which is considered below the level of human perception (3db is considered the smallest change the human ear can perceive). Combine that with the fact that most of the time you will be above 12v, you probably will never know the difference.

Again, the big downside, in my opinion, is that under the standard, manufacturers are allowed to advertise power that most consumers will never see. But, at least you'll be close, unlike other amps that don't ever make their advertised power.

Toby

[Notladstyle]

14.4 volts is like the emergency mode of the alternator that it only hits immediately after you start the car and when the battery is in dire need of charge - Most OEM regulators hold the voltage at 13.8v which is the nominal point to trickle charge a lead acid battery.

You can easily purchase upgrade diodes that will hold the voltage at 14.5volts that simply swap out with the stock diode in the alternator - They arent good for the battery or the rest of the equipment in your car however since most automotive components are rated for operation at 13volts.

[TJElite]

You'd also need to change the voltage regulator.

Racers have been playing with higher voltages for some time. Powermaster, and probably others, make complete 16v systems. Another company makes a voltage step up device, that people put on the igntion, fuel pump, etc.

I had a customer with a pretty serious 86 vette. He had a 16v alternator made, went to a 7 cell battery (14.4v steady state) and picked up like .2 sec in the quarter. Drove the car on the street for over 10k miles, and didn't have any electrical problems. I'm sure that bulb life was reduced, etc., but no major issues.

One of the issues facing the proposed 42v automotive electrical system has been galvanic corrosion...what takes years to corrode at 12v only takes months, or less, at 42v. I'd imagine similar issues at 15 or 16v, just not to the same extreme.

What I want to try is a second electrical system...a 12/13.8 for the car, and a 15 or 16v system for just the audio. I'll hopefully get the chance to try when we replace that big yukon we did.

Toby

[KartRex]

the 12d6's can hit much higher then just 130db's...... And i am willing to go the extra mile.What would you say about hooking up another battery.

[TJElite]

the 12d6's can hit much higher then just 130db's...... And i am willing to go the extra mile.What would you say about hooking up another battery.

130 was just an example. Regardless, the difference in power between 12v and 14.4v will be about 1db.

An extra battery is always a good idea, but it won't get you 14.4v.

Toby

[Notladstyle]

the 12d6's can hit much higher then just 130db's...... And i am willing to go the extra mile.What would you say about hooking up another battery.

another battery will actually drop the front of car voltage .1 or .2 volts - if a one battery car with an OEM alternator ran 13.7, two batteries would run ~13.5 in the front and 13.2 in the rear!

you cant just throw a battery in and expect to get gains. You have to change the physical components that manage the voltage. In GM cars, the diode is the regulator - in imports they are cometimes separated but are usually both in the same location within the alternator.

[POST]

What I want to try is a second electrical system...a 12/13.8 for the car, and a 15 or 16v system for just the audio. I'll hopefully get the chance to try when we replace that big yukon we did.

Toby

whew, i'd like to be there for the unveiling of that monster.

[TJElite]

another battery will actually drop the front of car voltage .1 or .2 volts - if a one battery car with an OEM alternator ran 13.7, two batteries would run ~13.5 in the front and 13.2 in the rear!

you cant just throw a battery in and expect to get gains. You have to change the physical components that manage the voltage. In GM cars, the diode is the regulator - in imports they are cometimes separated but are usually both in the same location within the alternator.

Not to get too far off topic...which GM alternator are you refering to? Every one I've ever rebuilt had a rectifier pack, a regulator, and a diode...all seperate. The voltage regulators function is to control the exciting current in the windings. GM's do this by switching on and off...something a diode can't do. The regulator / diode / rectifier bridge might all be integrated into the same part on some of the new ones, though.

Toby

[the727kid]

Don't forget your big 3 too Josh ;-).

[Notladstyle]

Not to get too far off topic...which GM alternator are you refering to? Every one I've ever rebuilt had a rectifier pack, a regulator, and a diode...all seperate. The voltage regulators function is to control the exciting current in the windings. GM's do this by switching on and off...something a diode can't do. The regulator / diode / rectifier bridge might all be integrated into the same part on some of the new ones, though.

Toby

Yeah this is how the one you are talkin about was set up -

http://www.fourwheeler.com/howto/86978/

I bought a kit off ebay and it was just one piece for the diode/regulator but I also had an ebay brand 180a alternator as well. Unfortunately I didnt take pics back when I had my buick. I'm gonna have to tear down my 03's stock 105amp in a few months and Ill definitely take pics of that.

[KartRex]

Fuckkk... So i'm thinking just doing. 2 d6 12" on the mrd1005 upgrading the motor ground and putting another batter and see how it sounds.

[Notladstyle]

Fuckkk... So i'm thinking just doing. 2 d6 12" on the mrd1005 upgrading the motor ground and putting another batter and see how it sounds.

For the third time, another battery is not going to increase your voltage - it will decrease it.

[the727kid]

Like I said do your big 3, then upgrade your alt when you get extra cash and then you won't lose any voltage.

[KartRex]

i am not going to be able to do the 3 there is not enough room in the back :( so i am just going to have to stick with doing the 2.i found sound dampening for really cheap so i am going to do the whole truck

[TJElite]

For the third time, another battery is not going to increase your voltage - it will decrease it.

Extra batteries do have their place, however. Think of the altenator as your job, and a battery as your piggy bank. Your daily expenses get paid by your job, and you've got some left to throw in the ole piggy. But when you miss a couple days, but still want the AudioThunder 100000 you've been dreaming of, you bust open said piggy, and spend baby, spend.

Same thing in car audio. Your alternator puts out current, say, 100 amps. On a regular day, music at normal level, maybe your amp uses 25 of that, and the rest of the car another 25 (just numbers here). The remaining 50 can go in your battery, for later. Now, a good tune comes on, you crank the stereo, and start driving faster (the two just go together). Now, your amp is pulling 75 amps, and your car 50. Since your alternator can only provide 100 amps, the other 25 have to come from your battery. Obviously, if you did this too long, your car would be stopped and silent.

The extra battery acts just like an extra piggy bank. The alternator will fill any demands, and then take the rest of the day off. That can mean filling one battery, or seven batteries. Obviously, more piggies is good for those spending sprees.

Now, think of your stereo as your girl. If she's cool, and just goes along with things, and doesn't mind QSL Thursday's as her night out, that's great. Your job will be good enough, and you can get by with one or two piggy banks. But, if she's one of those Paris wannabes who just has to have the latest designer shit, and only eats at places you can't pronounce, you'll eventually need a better job, or another job. See where this is going...piggy banks only work if you can refill them quicker than you empty them. Batteries only work if you have enough alternator to refill them before your stereo sucks them dry. If your stereo is high maintenance, you'll soon need either a bigger or a second alternator. Just like the hot chick, everyone wants a bigger, badder stereo, but you can't score the hottie working at BK. Or, you can date the more realistic chick, who's content only going out big time once or twice a week.

So, if you've got a modest to large stereo, and you can live with modest volume most of the time, but still want to jack it up once in a while, your stock alternator and battery, plus maybe one more, will do it. But, if you have to be cranking it all the time, and / or you just need bunches of watts, you'll need a bigger, better (or second) alternator.

Also, contrary to popular belief, if you're pulling big power, more batteries and bigger alternators generally wont keep your lights from dimming on bass notes, nor will they keep you at 14.4, or even 13.8 volts. Nothing happens that instantaniously. When your amp suddenly wants 150 amps, even your 250 amp alternator takes time to get there. Sure, your batteries try to pitch in, but they don't react intantly, either. In whatever amount of time this takes, there will be a voltage drop, and your lights will dim.

If I were you, I'd give up on trying to get 14.4 at the amps. The amount of time and money that would take is just not worth it. Like I said above, even all the way down at 12v, you only lose about 1 db. Since you'll probably be up around 13.5, the loss will be even less. If you just have to have 1000 watts RMS in your setup, find an amp that will do it at 12.5-13v, instead of 14.4.

Toby

[the727kid]

^^^LOL you lost me until you started talking about the female then I caught on.

[the727kid]

i am not going to be able to do the 3 there is not enough room in the back :( so i am just going to have to stick with doing the 2.i found sound dampening for really cheap so i am going to do the whole truck

The Big 3 aren't batteries. Doing the big 3 involes upgrading your power and ground to 0 guage.

it requires all 0 guage wire
1. from alternator positive to battery positive
2. from battery negative to frame
3. from frame to engine block

I just Dynamatted the Trunk of the Caddy today.....man it gets fucking hot! lol It's pretty simple to do. Imma have the headliner dynamatted next week when I get my suede headliner put in and do the doors later on lol.

[TJElite]

The Big 3 aren't batteries. Doing the big 3 involes upgrading your power and ground to 0 guage.

it requires all 0 guage wire
1. from alternator positive to battery positive
2. from battery negative to frame
3. from frame to engine block



Can I get an Amen?!? This should be done by everyone with an aftermarket system, regardless of size. For all you go fast types, #3 can actually add HP, by giving your sensors a better ground reference. For best results though, I'd probably suggest several 4ga or 8 ga wires, going from different parts of the engine to the frame. Just make sure every connection is good.

Sure, 0 Ga might be overkill for some systems, but a) your not using much, so it won't cost that much more than smaller wire and b) this way, you only do it once, instead of doing it with 4 ga for your 500 watt system, just to have to redo it down the road when you go to 1000 watts.

Toby

[KartRex]

Deffintaly