system wiring

[relited]

say I were to run 2 12' dvc on a kicker kx800.2...its been said i should run bridged 800w @ 4ohm (subs are 4ohm) how would I go about wiring this?

[joebobclark]

Simple....

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/wiringwizard/2_4ohmDVC_4ohm.gif

Just use the bridged +/- on the amp.

[TBSpyder]

Simple....

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/wiringwizard/2_4ohmDVC_4ohm.gif

Just use the bridged +/- on the amp.


Dude, your sig is disturbing..... :throwup: :lol:

[relited]

LOL nice sig, ok well yea thats the wiring i used but i see what your sayin now thanks

[relited]

ok bridged makes my amp go into protection at higher volume....so I have it wired up like this
http://www.ryzor.com/up/userfiles/cyberkill/wireee.jpg
and it doesn't cut out and sounds fine....is that safe or will I cause damage to the subs? 2 12' infinity perfect 12.1's

[Lookin2GoFA$T]

i have 2 infinity 12 dvc and i run basicly the same set up with a crunch v-drive 2800 amp never cut out, but it will make your eyes rattle.

[joebobclark]

That Kicker amp should be good for 4ohms bridged with no problems.......

Its fine to run it the way you have it now, it wouldnt hurt anything, but you have a 4ohm load to each channel and the jumper wire isnt necesary (you are only using 1 voice coil in your diagram). If you are going to run 2 channel, try this...

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/wiringwizard/1_4ohmDVC_2ohm.gif

Wire each sub like this on seperate channels and let us know, may be a problem with your amp.

[Eclipse99RS]

ok bridged makes my amp go into protection at higher volume....so I have it wired up like this
http://www.ryzor.com/up/userfiles/cyberkill/wireee.jpg
and it doesn't cut out and sounds fine....is that safe or will I cause damage to the subs? 2 12' infinity perfect 12.1's

The only damage its gonna cause is from clipping because you are underpowering the speakers a lot. You have each channel wired to 8 ohms which doesn't give you a lot of power. Try either bridging the two channels together, and wiring the subs the way this diagram shows(series) for a 4 ohm load or run a sub on its own channel in parallel give give each channel a 2 ohm load.

[joebobclark]

The only damage its gonna cause is from clipping because you are underpowering the speakers a lot. You have each channel wired to 8 ohms which doesn't give you a lot of power. Try either bridging the two channels together, and wiring the subs the way this diagram shows(series) for a 4 ohm load or run a sub on its own channel in parallel give give each channel a 2 ohm load.

Actually, according to his diagram, he has them wired to 1 voice coil running 4ohms. If it was 8ohms, the jumper wire would be from the + on one coil to the - on the other.

[relited]

so my amp could be messed up? damn...so I should wire up for 8ohms? wouldn't that be underpowering it even more?

[joebobclark]

so my amp could be messed up? damn...so I should wire up for 8ohms? wouldn't that be underpowering it even more?


You are running 4ohms now, but only using 1 voice coil (if its wired like your diagram).

If you are going use 2 channels, you should wire for 2ohms. If the amp goes into protection with 2ohm stereo, it may be messed up.

[relited]

i see, i'll try that tonight, can my amp even handle a 2ohm load? kicker kx800.2

[joebobclark]

It should be good for 4ohm mono (bridged) and 2ohm stereo (not bridged) with no problems, most any amp on the market will hold that.

But you said that at high levels, it was going into protection mode with a 4ohm mono load, when it should be good for a 2ohm mono load.

If it goes into protection with a 2ohm stereo load, it may be the amp has a problem.

[Eclipse99RS]

Actually, according to his diagram, he has them wired to 1 voice coil running 4ohms. If it was 8ohms, the jumper wire would be from the + on one coil to the - on the other.

my bad i didn't really take a look at the diagram i just glanced and saw a jumper so i assumed it was series. but either way powering one vc of a dvc sub = bad things later (shit will still break)

[Notladstyle]

my bad i didn't really take a look at the diagram i just glanced and saw a jumper so i assumed it was series. but either way powering one vc of a dvc sub = bad things later (shit will still break)

bad urban myth. theres nothing wrong with running one voice coil - you just have to cut the power handling in half.

ive been running my d312d2 on one coil since I got it.

[Eclipse99RS]

i see, i'll try that tonight, can my amp even handle a 2ohm load? kicker kx800.2
You gotta remember that even though the manufacturer (sp?) says it can handle a 2 ohm load doesn't always mean it can. Sure when the calculations are done it works out fine, but nothing in this world is perfect. in order to be able to do what the manufacturer says it can do most of the time you need a perfect 14v, ample cooling, and of coarse an act of god.

Inside an amp there are tons of resistors and sure they have a specific rating of the amount of resistance they have, but they also have a 5% or 10% tolerance. Which means if you have a 100 ohm resistor with a 10% tolerance. That resistor can read out 90-110 ohms and still be considered a 100 ohm resistor. Now with all of the resistors having 5% or 10% acutal rating, when they are put together thats what creates differences from amp to amp.

You also gotta remember that manufacturers test amps before they go out for sale. They are bench tested for probably a whole 30 seconds. The amp isn't running long enough for them to be able to firgure out that when running at 2 ohms for 10 minutes the amp starts to cut out. But it passed there 30 second test so to them its ok to sell.

Hope that explains it all.. If i left anything out please add.



For all members **If i said anything wrong don't be a dick about it say what you think is correct and why. Don't just jump in and accuse me of false info when you have no proof to back it up**

[Eclipse99RS]

bad urban myth. theres nothing wrong with running one voice coil - you just have to cut the power handling in half.

ive been running my d312d2 on one coil since I got it.

I've never actually tried it, i've always been told that it was bad. But it does make sense half the totals voice coils, half the power. I never really thought about it i just went along with people saying it was bad for the sub. Then again i wouldn't really ever do it becaue i would rather use the full power of he sub.

[robunicu]

bad urban myth. theres nothing wrong with running one voice coil - you just have to cut the power handling in half.

ive been running my d312d2 on one coil since I got it.

+1

[joebobclark]

For all members **If i said anything wrong don't be a dick about it say what you think is correct and why. Don't just jump in and accuse me of false info when you have no proof to back it up**


I wasnt tryin to be a dick about it, just trying to help the guy out....

Sorry if I came across that way....

[Eclipse99RS]

I wasnt tryin to be a dick about it, just trying to help the guy out....

Sorry if I came across that way....

No its was nothin you said, its just the longer response the more opp i have to say something wrong and most of the time when people correct me they are assholes about it. You were fine i just know someone else will say something.

[Notladstyle]

I've never actually tried it, i've always been told that it was bad. But it does make sense half the totals voice coils, half the power. I never really thought about it i just went along with people saying it was bad for the sub. Then again i wouldn't really ever do it becaue i would rather use the full power of he sub.

Yeah when I first joined TR I was under the impression it would damage the sub as well. After I did some research and tore a couple dvc subs apart I concluded that there was no reason one coil couldnt drive the sub the same way svc subs do all the time so I tried it out... it may just be me but it sounds cleaner possibly the sensitivity is higher with a single coil at half the power.

But regardless whether experts will agree or not, Ive been running mine and its been metered twice at full power, once at 137 and once at 134 at tobys.

[TJElite]

I've never actually tried it, i've always been told that it was bad. But it does make sense half the totals voice coils, half the power. I never really thought about it i just went along with people saying it was bad for the sub. Then again i wouldn't really ever do it becaue i would rather use the full power of he sub.

I had always heard it was bad, as well, but never knew why. I believe that JL was one of the companies really harping this. I also heard it would be less efficient, but again, no proof.

One thing that will change, though, is TS parameters. Most manufacturers base their TS parameters for DVC subs on the highest impedance connection...series. Qes, for a single coil, will be twice what it is either in series or parallel. Since Qes has much more effect on QTS than Qms (the other component), this will make for a significantly different box alignment. So, unless your driver manual has specs for individual coils (which I've never seen), if you build a box to the published specs, it will not give the desired alignment if you only use one voice coil.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were other issues, as well. The motor structures on these drivers were designed around both voice coils.

Toby

[relited]

ok i wired it up for 2ohm and it's fine, sounds alot better hits harder too...running this at 2ohms on 2channel isn't going to hurt the subs is it? they are rated 4ohm....or am I wrong?

[Notladstyle]

I had always heard it was bad, as well, but never knew why. I believe that JL was one of the companies really harping this. I also heard it would be less efficient, but again, no proof.

One thing that will change, though, is TS parameters. Most manufacturers base their TS parameters for DVC subs on the highest impedance connection...series. Qes, for a single coil, will be twice what it is either in series or parallel. Since Qes has much more effect on QTS than Qms (the other component), this will make for a significantly different box alignment. So, unless your driver manual has specs for individual coils (which I've never seen), if you build a box to the published specs, it will not give the desired alignment if you only use one voice coil.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were other issues, as well. The motor structures on these drivers were designed around both voice coils.

Toby
^^ all true
but the specs would vary similarly from having the coils in parallel rather than series though.

If you can use both and get optimum power output, I would. But its not gonna destroy the woofer to use one coil.

[TJElite]

^^ all true
but the specs would vary similarly from having the coils in parallel rather than series though.


Actually, this is incorrect. QMS stays the same regardless of voice coil hook up, and QES for two coils will be half that of the single coil, whether you go parallel or series. So, QTS will be the same for parallel or series, but significantly higher if you only use one coil.

I've attached a set of bassbox plots of the same DVC woofer, in the same, enclosure, with different VC connections. In the normalized amplitude plots, the orange line is actually both the parallel and series configurations...they lay right on top of one another. The yellow plot is with only one VC hooked up.

While this makes it look like you'll get louder with only 1 vc, the second jpg, labled custom amplitude plot, shows the response with 375 watts. The green line is both the parallel and series plots, while the yellow is the solo VC. Notice how the output is lower for the single almost across the board. This seems to confirm the lower efficiency.

Toby

[relited]

ok i wired it up for 2ohm and it's fine, sounds alot better hits harder too...running this at 2ohms on 2channel isn't going to hurt the subs is it? they are rated 4ohm....or am I wrong?..

[TJElite]

ok i wired it up for 2ohm and it's fine, sounds alot better hits harder too...running this at 2ohms on 2channel isn't going to hurt the subs is it? they are rated 4ohm....or am I wrong?

If I'm following this thread correctly, you went from using 1 VC on each sub, running the amp 4 ohm stereo, to hooking the 2 VC's in parallel, running the amp 2 ohm stereo.

If this is correct, you should be fine. I'm not sure what you mean when you say 'they are rated 4 ohm', but your subs will be fine unless you are giving them way more than the rms rating (like 3 times or more), or unless you are clipping. The amp will draw more current, and get hotter, but should also survive.

The subs hit harder because you are giving them twice as much power in 2 ohm vs 4 ohm stereo.

Toby

[Notladstyle]

Back to the driving a single coil, heres an interesting pdf I found while doing my midnight googling...

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/DualVoiceCoilDrivers.pdf

Looks as if he compensates for the increased Qes value by bridging the undriven coil.

[TJElite]

Back to the driving a single coil, heres an interesting pdf I found while doing my midnight googling...

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/DualVoiceCoilDrivers.pdf

Looks as if he compensates for the increased Qes value by bridging the undriven coil.

What was more interesting was using a pot across the other coil, to make a variable q woofer. That's something I might have to experiment with.

Good find.

Toby

[TJElite]

Lets get ready to time Dalton's run to his car... -)

DALTON...BY ONLY WIRING ONE VOICE COIL, EVEN WITH THE OTHER SHORTED, YOU ARE GIVING UP SPL...

http://www.davidnavone.com/richardclark/DVC%20Test.gif

This makes sense. By shorting the other coil, you are actually increasing the mechanical Q (QMS), but QES will still be double vs. the two coils connected together (series or parallel).

Toby

[Notladstyle]

Lets get ready to time Dalton's run to his car... -)

DALTON...BY ONLY WIRING ONE VOICE COIL, EVEN WITH THE OTHER SHORTED, YOU ARE GIVING UP SPL...

http://www.davidnavone.com/richardclark/DVC%20Test.gif

This makes sense. By shorting the other coil, you are actually increasing the mechanical Q (QMS), but QES will still be double vs. the two coils connected together (series or parallel).

Toby

Damnit! you and your super sub calculator program. You just saved me another 3 hours of tinkering. you suk. what am I suppsed to do now? spend time with my wife?!



I guess I'll have to see what my numbers are when I switch to 4ohm series over the 2ohm single coil at the next meet.... when might that be btw?

[TJElite]

Damnit! you and your super sub calculator program. You just saved me another 3 hours of tinkering. you suk. what am I suppsed to do now? spend time with my wife?!



I guess I'll have to see what my numbers are when I switch to 4ohm series over the 2ohm single coil at the next meet.... when might that be btw?

I actually didn't make that graph...you can thank a bigger audio tweak than me for that one.

Theoretically, I would have expected a tie. I figured you'd gain 3db by not dragging the extra coil around, but lose 3db by halving the amp power (2 ohm to 4 ohm). Looking at that graph, however, it looks like you actually pick up about 5 db by connecting the coils. What I don't see, though, is any reference to power level. Knowing Navone, every pertinant variable, other than coil configuration, was kept constant, so it is probably all based on the same power level.

What we should do at the next meet (June 10th) is do back to back metering, just changing the wiring.

Toby

[Notladstyle]

I actually didn't make that graph...you can thank a bigger audio tweak than me for that one.

Theoretically, I would have expected a tie. I figured you'd gain 3db by not dragging the extra coil around, but lose 3db by halving the amp power (2 ohm to 4 ohm). Looking at that graph, however, it looks like you actually pick up about 5 db by connecting the coils. What I don't see, though, is any reference to power level. Knowing Navone, every pertinant variable, other than coil configuration, was kept constant, so it is probably all based on the same power level.

What we should do at the next meet (June 10th) is do back to back metering, just changing the wiring.

Toby



Sounds good, I hope to purchase my new amp by then though, now that I'm sure I want a new amp I dont want to kill this one any more (polk 300.2 is only rated to 4ohms)