BMWCCA 3/12 Results

[chi town brat]

Results are up!

www.fscbmwcca.org/DrivingEvents/index.html

I had a blast on this course

Jamal and Keith drove the living hell out of that s2k . thanks for the great time i had just watching you drive that s2k Jamal.

Keith I hope you post the vid of you sliding across the track :)

BTW to the course designers thank you 1000x for the solomns . man i <3 them!

Looking forward to the next one in April but next time with SunBlock 30

OUCH! :lol:

[RoadRacer]

Sounds like you guys had a great time. I saw you at the TR track event in a civic. I thought you had a CRX?

[Muddy]

Tease! I didn't do so well, but I will post video later this week. I hit the rev limiter in 4th gear on my first run at 85 mph! :D

[chi town brat]

Sounds like you guys had a great time. I saw you at the TR track event in a civic. I thought you had a CRX?

I do but currently it is down with a bent crank pulley that I am trying to be good and buy without using a credit card ... ;)

[Rosko]

It was a great course. Again, very very fast and difficult - at least for me - to find the proper braking point. I summoned ABS twice on every run. The second hard-braking area was the most tricky - closer to the finish. Out of five runs I had two sloppy accompanied by three disastrous, and left with my head hanging low. But a bad day autocrossing is better than a good day at work :)

[w0rd]

Great event. I loved the fast sections. It is very hard to spot braking points when going that fast. Out of 10, I got maybe, 1 right.

[mofugga]

hey, how'd my name get on that list? i haven't been to an event yet & it's spelled impreza with one z :lol:

[Loren]

Don't want to start a "holy war" about what is or isn't "autocross", but I don't think 90 mph is autocross material. Not saying it isn't fun... it's just not what autocross is.

Even the BMW club's website (http://www.fscbmwcca.org/DrivingEvents/WhatisAutox.html) says that "speed rarely exceeds 65 mph". From the reports here of at least the past two events they've done at Brooksville, this does not appear to be the case.

Feel free to discuss... or not. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[w0rd]

Not saying it isn't fun... it's just not what autocross is..
It is an autocross, with a high speed straight thrown in. This has been normal for a PCA/BMW event for as long as I have been auto-x'ing.

Even the BMW club's website (http://www.fscbmwcca.org/DrivingEvents/WhatisAutox.html) says that "speed rarely exceeds 65 mph".
I would call 1 section out of 40 a rare event. Most of the course was under 65. A few spots were actually pretty tight. Some people were actually using 1st gear.

However, one of the head dudes told me that he thought the course was a little too fast. So, we might expect some changes for the next event. I don't really have a problem with the high speeds as long as it's safe. I didn't see any unsafe parts to the course, as the high speed sections were straight. If there was a lane change at 90 mph, then that would be a different story.

This is pretty interesting regarding what an autocross course consists of http://www.scca.org/garage/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3380&PN=1
"The Chief Safety Steward or other designees as defined in Appendix E .X.B, has the final on-site determination on course safety and that action is not protestable." and "Competitors are reminded that common sense, course layout and site conditions drive the determination on a safe event."

[chi town brat]

But a bad day autocrossing is better than a good day at work :)

+1 zillion

There is discussion about shortening the course to handle a variety of different issues currently. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

Acutally the original course set up by the trash dumpster had us braking and turning but due to safety the 1st turn was straightened out a bit and it was more of a slight angle to get in.

I like autox'ing with different clubs so that I can experience different course designs ... tight, fast, slow downs, hard braking, etc.

btw the results are now posted

[jblaine]

This is pretty interesting regarding what an autocross course consists of
"While speeds are no greater than those normally encountered in legal highway driving..."

http://www.scca.com/Solo/Solo2.asp?IdS=0044D0-DAEA4A0&x=050|030&~=

[Muddy]

I think it is silly to compare SCCA rules for a BMWCCA event. I spoke to Barry about the speeds and their impact on insurance Sunday before the event. His answer is that the insurance allows the speeds that we were able to reach on the course. The one point of the course where I was able to use 5th gear was a straight line, and in my opinion, the worst thing that could happen is that I missed the braking point. There was 300 ft of runoff room if I didn't stop in time.

Several of us had a discussion about couse design and safety before the event, 4 of us are very experienced, and our only concern was one gate that was next to a large steel box. The event ran smoothly and I have seen more dangerous occurrences at local and national SCCA events. I have seen far more and far worse off course occurrences (cars in the grass) at the SCCA events at the same site. I have also had oncoming cars lose control and slide within 20 feet of my car at a Prosolo in Ft Myers several years ago.

[w0rd]

What is autocross?
http://www.egyptautocross.com/modules/gallery/albums/first_2005/DSC_0166.jpg
http://www.egyptautocross.com/modules/gallery/albums/first_2005/DSC_0125.sized.jpg
http://www.egyptautocross.com/modules/gallery/albums/FFS_05/Maged_Ebed.wmv

www.egyptautocross.com
I think we should put one of those pyramid obstacles at Brooksville. :)

[Jordan Y.]

I think that obstacle would rip the exhaust right off my car...

[Loren]

"Competitors are reminded that common sense, course layout and site conditions drive the determination on a safe event."

I do agree with this philosophy, but I still think 90 is pushing it. Good to hear that someone in the BMW camp is seeing that as well.

I shouldn't do this... but what the hell...

You said that the course was not unsafe with it's 90 mph straight because that speed was only achieved on a straight. Okay. That works if ALL of your drivers are experienced enough to know that they need to SLOW DOWN before they attempt to negotiate whatever course element lies after the straight. I think you've been around long enough to know that we quite often get really inexperienced drivers at autocrosses (and you also know that I'm being very kind and politically correct with that statement) who like to think they can go through anything we put in front of them flat out. I can picture a newb getting into some SERIOUS trouble on a course that allows 90 mph speeds.

Think about what happens when a car goes off into the grass sideways at 90 mph. In my mind, this would be a serious problem.

[w0rd]

Good point. Fortunately this weekend both high speed straights were followed with really slow manuevers (< 20 mph) with menacing cone walls, so that even the most inexperienced person would know to slow down.

I can see how it would be dangerous otherwise.

[Loren]

Menacing cone walls might just inspire the novice driver with lots of Gran Turismo time under their belt to be ready to YANK THE WHEEL HARD when they reach the end of the straight. To me, the 20 mph tight turn doesn't solve the problem at all... in fact, it does much to CREATE the problem.

Okay. I'm done. I think I've made my point. Just don't want to see anyone get hurt or any of our clubs lose autocross sites.

[w0rd]

Bunch of pictures here...
http://www.rpm-photography.com/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=9&page=1

I don't know who took them, but they are nice.

[w0rd]

Guess this guy wasn't happy with his run. haha

http://www.rpm-photography.com/Gallery/albums/FCS%20AutoX2%20Up%202/IMG_7084086.JPG

[mofugga]

you look confused
http://www.rpm-photography.com/Gallery/albums/FSCAutoX%20Up1/IMG_7028059.JPG

how's the new car working out for you?

[w0rd]

you look confused
Ha, I always make that face when racing, I hate it.
Brian has a good face in one of his pictures too.
how's the new car working out for you?
Good. I think I was the fastest on street tires on sunday. 5th overall.
Saturday, the course was too tight for me to even get on the boost in most places, and I don't do first gear. So I think I ended up somewhere in the middle. Results haven't been posted yet, so I am not sure.

[flmcoupe]

First, let me say that it was a great event and I enjoyed seeing everyone there! A couple of videos for chi town brat and for everyone to see what we're talking about.

CCA Autox Video (http://www.fastjam.com/autox/)

More videos someone was shooting from outside (http://www.rpm-photography.com/BayBimmers/AutoX%203-12-06/)

I do agree with Loren on the safety issue, 90+ mph is kinda dangerous for an autox, even though it was a lot of fun. However, I don't believe the novice driver out there was able to go that fast, maybe 75 mph, and you can see that from the times. I was really concerned about the big metal dumpster and we decided to change the course to get the cars away from it, it worked. My main concern with the Brooksville site is the width, running 2 cars at the same time can be asking for trouble! We all saw what happened with Keith's run! I would prefer NOT to see that happen again! Lucky for him there was no car coming from the opposite side. Would this have happened to a novice? I doubt it, to an experienced driver? Just ask Keith! You had to know what you're doing in these sections to be able to carry so much speed and to keep it going through the straights. The course had plenty of runoff area as Muddy mentioned, the only problem was that it was possible to lose control and use the wrong runoff area on the opposite side!

So, IMO, the course was fun, but dangerous if you were a fast experienced driver and got in a little trouble, because of the speed involved and the size of the runway. I didn't see any of the novices get into a situation that would've caused something that we would've all regretted.

[chi town brat]

omg what are they doing to that EF in that pic????? well GO EF!!!

[Loren]

I've seen near collisions of oncoming cars at airstrip sites before, too, Jamal. This is a very valid concern.

[Muddy]

I have a very determined look on my face. :lol:



http://www.rpm-photography.com/Gallery/albums/FSCAutoX%20Up1/IMG_6971041.JPG

[chi town brat]

I have a very determined look on my face. :lol:

you have that look of hmmm i think the track continues on over there :lol:

[Loren]

I have a very determined look on my face. :lol:

Ah, yes, "race face".

Maybe it's the G-force from all the power you're putting down?

[Muddy]

I think I know what part of the course that is. I was turning, braking, and downshifting at the same time. All that after carrying 80+ mph approaching the cone wall near the finish.

I think the G-force was from my wonderful brakes. :D

[bam2002]

Ok lets try this post again. Looks like the 1st time it was lost.



Thanks for all the feedback here.

YES we do want to make sure it is a safe event. Here are a few things I need to take into consideration when we do the event.



Since we now are getting about 50 cars, Ideally I need to keep each run to 1 min to allow for the 6 runs we want to provide.

Brooksville is a large site and I like to use most or the surface. If I do make the course a bit longer lets say 1.1 miles vs .8 I then can have 3 cars out at a time. So I get into a numbers game to figure out what will work the best.

To me a BIG part of learning to drive well is braking. How many people do you know that do tons of engine Mods and never upgrade the brakes? This is why we tend to have the far side of the course get up to speed/ 3rd gear. SO that people can learn braking points.

We also had quite a few V8 BMWs last year. I try to keep the course a bit more open than the really tight ones you see over at ST Pete JC because of the Larger cars. We even get the X-5 s out auto x ing at Brooksville.

Since we set up on Sat and the site is usually rented out Sat. We usually are finishing in the dark. So this makes it very difficult to see the big picture until the next morning. We have made some design errors that had to be corrected the next morning. The metal dumpster is such an example.

So again there is a time limitation for course fixes. If the cones are all chalked and the map is made and we need to do a change. Yes we do it, but it then causes some confusion with those that have already walked the course.



This is the 2nd year the BMWCCA club has been doing these and we are still learning as we go. So please send me any feedback you have ( good or bad ). I want to make sure we can continue to be Safe and sell the events out. As I read the other threads and I see that there are choices of different places to go and we have conflicts with other events. Yet many of the advanced drivers pick our event. I take that as we are doing something right and I am OK with being out there sat in the dark setting up a course.



Barry

[mofugga]

only been to one of your events at brooksville but had a blast, keep 'em coming! it is kinda strange to get into 4th at an autox but fun nonetheless, just gotta be aware & pay attention. pay no mind to loren he just likes to create drama ;)

[Muddy]

We appreciate all the effort you put into your events, Barry. :D

Here is a vid of one of my runs from Sunday.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9162959933508287988