It's dying

[roracer70]

Well, now my 2 and a half year old engine is burning oil when i start up the car.i was told it could be vavle guides, or the crankcase needs to be flushed.this is the second time a napa part has screwed up my engine.i was planing on getting new heads and cam over summer, but is this engine gonna last that long? should i go after napa? this is my only means of transportation. and i have no money to get another car. I needs me some help!

[70Z]

Does it only smoke when you first start it up?

How much oil is it burning?

[Frankie]

How did NAPA screw it up? I'm confused.

I ran my 327 for years with bad valve guides, but I finally got tired of the heads sounding like a machine gun, so I pulled it. As long as it's not eating an insane amount of oil, I wouldn't worry too much about it. A Chevy that doesn't eat oil isn't running right.

[Just Dave]

Yeah man, a SBC will still run 200,000 burning some oil. Just get a set of plugs one heat ranger higher and let it ride. With your spare money put another set of heads together. There are a few high quality machine shops in the area that aren't NAPA that will do a valve job that will last.

[70Z]

A Chevy that doesn't eat oil isn't running right.

hahaha...ain't that the truth.

Same can be said about Muncie M21/22's. If they don't leak they're probably broke.

[roracer70]

well this is starting to make me feel better, im freakin out cause all my money goes into this thing. i kinda raced a 2003 gt today. got my ass kicked, needless to say. but im thinking with new head and cam i'll have a chance. btw, i've kept checkin the oil when the engine is cold and hot. today, with the engine cold the oil was pretty dark and past the full mark. when it was hot, the oil was light in color again, and just dark at the bottom of the dipstick, and still past the full mark. when we did the oil change, it didnt read past the full line. i've check it a few times after we changed the oil and it still didnt read full. and the stock discount auto fuel pumps works wonder, and cheaper then napa's. so now i can understand why im burning oil lol.but the thing about napa scrweing up my engine, eversince their first water pump i bought from them was put on my brand new engine, it would run at 160 with a cut fan shroud, and bigblock pulleys that were bent, and it never got hot in traffic.after a couple of months went by when i started up the car it would reach past the 250 degree mark. napa refused it was their water pump. finally it cracked-yes, it cracked, and they still wouldn't warranty it for a new one, even though it had a life time warranty. so i put the second one on at my house. doesn't run any colder then 210.at a light it would just keep going up in temp too. they warrantied the second pump for a third. same thing. said f*ck that, went out to gearhead and got a milodin high flow water pump and 160 t-stat. ran cooler, still should be better. it would get hot sitting, which i know is normal. bought a new fan shoud, brand new HEAVY DUTY radiator. bought a bigger flex fan with deepers cups, and a longer spacer to put the fan where it should be. ran fine driving, but if i got to a light the car wouldnt cool. finally after going through 3 different electric fans i got a pretty damn good one off a volvo that matched up almost perfectly. at a light it will drop below 160. but now it heats up while driving. checked the timing, its ok. so ever since that first freakin napa water pump, my car has had cooling issues, and no one wants to take responsibility for it. and of course gm wont do a damn thing cause it wasn't their fault. so the only part on the car that is napa is the upper and lower radiator hoses, which when i scrape together some money im gonna look into getting either the blue hoses or the mesh hoses. and get that napa crap off my engine for good. Kevin=complete napa auto hater.

[roracer70]

btw i'll try to get some money for new plugs, and msd wires sound good. ......hehe...

[Frankie]

I use some generic chrome water pump, heavy duty triple core, perm-a-cool electric fan, and rubber hoses, and if it's hot out, I'll get up over 210 degrees. It's Florida man, it's hard to keep a carb'd smallblock cold.

Beat by a 2003 GT? Gimme the low-down on that car. What kinda gears in the back, transmission, cam, carb, heads, etc?

MSD wires aren't all they're cracked up to be, and honestly, a waste of money on a mild SBC. Get some AC Delco plugs and some generic wires. You'll more than likely burn 'em on a header/manifold before they go bad anyway, so no sense in spending $80-$100 on a set of wires.

[roracer70]

well, i figured since i was gonna build the engine up a little this summer, i might as well get some better plugs and wires. i had bosch plantinums and they were so damn good, then the carb died and the spark plugs were kinda crap and i was told to get new ones, ive been through ac delco, their in right now, champions, and bosch. and wires def make a diffence. i had accel cut your own wires and they were good, got um, NAPA wires and one burned out in a couple of months. and it wasn't touching anything.lol. as for keeping cold, do you have ac? cause i dont, i have a factory fan that......well, lets say its seen better days. im actually considering just taking it out. dont have heat or ac, but i have a fan that spins, makes noise, and doesn't blow. the gt was maroon. some kid and his gf. i kept asking him about what he had and he was too interested in racing, im pretty sure he didnt know about the car and just wanted a race. he said lets go on green, light turned i just drove normal and then when i got to the end of the intersection i just hear his car so i floor it. and i got an auto and it was about to change to 2nd. not like his 5 speed. nope.....i dunno, i basically have no exhuast and he had a full exhaust that was loud as hell. the stock gt my friend had from 03 only had like 260 hp and i think 280 lbs of torque. my engine is 260 hp with 350 lbs of torque, so there is no way that was a stock engine. and im still running like a 2.63 gear lol.

[Frankie]

A 260/350 engine through a 2.63 rear end is going to be DOG slow, no wonder you lost. That probably was a stock GT with exhaust. I've got like a 300/350 engine with 3.73's, plus a short geared transmission, and my car is still pretty slow all-in-all. I got ran pretty good by an '01 Cobra with 4.10's and exhaust the other day. He got me by a good quarter panel.

Bosch plugs are shit, especially the platinums. They're overpriced for no reason. The Delcos are the best bang for the buck plugs I've used. Shit, Forge is even running them in his Harley. If they foul, they're like $2 to replace, and you just learned something is wrong with your motor. So it's a win-win situation :D

Wires do make a difference, but unless you've got a whole ignition, your HEI with GP Sorensen coil is going to fire fine though Discount's cheapy X-act wires. I'm running a GM HEI, cheapy cap, rotor, coil, and X-act wires and my ignition is fine.

Ditch the mechanical fan and buy an electric one. I used to have some shit ass flex fan on my 327, and it'd overheat all day. Electric fans can be had for <$100. I'm not running A/C and never have. The heat works fine though.

You wanna see some performance? Change out the 2.63 ring and pinion. You'll see bigger gains there than by building an whole new engine, and it'll be about 1/4 the price. I think it cost me $500, including gears, to get the work done. Setting up a rearend is a pain, so take it to someone who knows.

Most importantly, if you need help working on that thing, don't hesitate to ask me. I love working on Camaros with carb's smallblocks :D

[roracer70]

awsome, i'll keep that in mind cause im always needing help lol.

[Frankie]

awsome, i'll keep that in mind cause im always needing help lol.

You're nearby too, so it's not like a big pain in the ass to help ya out. Think you can bring some of those hot trampoline girls?

[roracer70]

this is when i updated this thing
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/505027/2

[70Z]

roracer,

I dont understand why your car (http://kintont.com/index2.php?v4&v0=54&go=car&url1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamparacing.com%2Fforums%2Fn ewreply.php&pin=14044) runs so hot (http://naaklov.com/index2.php?v4&v0=54&go=so+hot&url1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamparacing.com%2Fforums%2Fn ewreply.php&pin=14044). If I were you I'd find out because you shouldn't need some kick ass water pump and electric fans to keep it cool with what your running.

Early 2nd gens are known for running cool because we have huge front grills. I'm running a 360HP LT1, 11:1 compression, solid lifters, yada,yada,yada with 4:10 gears and I never go over 180 even when it's hot out. Thats with totally stock, original equipment.

There's something else going on and if you ran cool for 3 months with pump 1 I dont see why you would think it caused the problem. Especially since pumps 2 and 3 didn't help. And especially, especially since pump 1 ended up cracking. I'd want to know why it cracked. Thats not a common thing.

Good luck

[roracer70]

70z, after a couple of months the first water pump caused the car to run past 250 degrees every time the car warmed up.after a couple a minutes it cooled down. i'm new to cars and in no way a mechanic, but i do believe that going past 250 degrees everytime the car warmed up did somekind of damage. it cracked on my way to my job at eckerd one day, at alderman and alt 19-before it got shut down, freakin cvs......my neighborhood was maybe 3/4's of a mile away from my eckerd and about half way there i started to smell burning antifreeze. smell it once, you always remember what it is. pulled into the parking lot, opened the hood, and it was cracked down the seam on the side. antifreeze pouring out.btw frankie, i don't know how it came out but there is an electric fan on my radiator now from a volvo.and i have a msd billet distributor and blaster 2 coil. all you know a lot more then i do about cars, i have some unpleasant experience with this car which has broaden my knowledge, but for a budget of maybe 1500, or 2000, what should i do to the car. keeping in mind that this will be my daily driver and i might get a machine shop job in either seminole or clearwater.so round trip aound 30 miles a day.

[70Z]

Hmmm..I hope you know I'm not trying to make you wrong, it's just hard to digest so much info and figure out the timeline of what happened when.

So the car ran fine for three months then started getting hot and finally the first pump cracked..I think I got that much right?

Since then the car has run hot?

I have a lot of experience with this issue, I used to repair radiators,pumps, heater cores, etc..The list of things that could have gone wrong or might have gotten damaged is pretty damn long.

I happen to live near you as well and I'm off work for the next few weeks. I know Frank has offered to help and I'd be happy to offer my help as well. I've always wanted to see Franks car...What do you think Frank? Get the car over to your place and we could at least look it over? Being your only car I'd hate to see it get screwed up. Plus us Camaro guys need to stick together.

[74javelin]

250 is way too hot. i don't like them to get to 200. you could of done some damage 250.

i'm starting to wonder if you have a blown head gasket. a blown headgasket can make the temps go up.

that's very strange that the temp goes up while driving and goes down at light now.

you could of got gas in the oil when the fuel pump went out. i'd change the oil. i've seen a few car that burnt oil because they had gas in the oil. oil change and no more oil burning.


good luck

[roracer70]

thanks for the offers! im usually only working from 1-6 mon thru fri at the ups store in dunedin. tell me when and where and i'll bring my car there lol.

[Frankie]

You guys wanna bring the car over to my place? My air compressor took a shit, so I don't have air tools, so we'll be all hand tool if we work on it at my place, but I'm game. I just have to unpack the garage one of these days from moving and get all of my tools in order. By in order, I mean disarray by the way.

It'd be pretty f'in cool to see 2 70's and a 67 in front of my house though :D

[70Z]

Frank,

I suggested your place just because I don't have any place to work on a car right now. My wife is redecorating and buying 2 of everything because she can't make up her mind about what she wants and the losing piece ends up in the garage. So right now my garage looks like a furniture store and I can't even see my tools let alone get to them.

Getting the cars together would be pretty cool...

As I said I'm pretty much free right now. Going to Daytona for the race this weekend but other than that I'm game.

[Frankie]

My house is cool. My garage is cramped too, but it's with cars, so I can just back 'em up. I'd dig into that little 350 smallblock. It sounds like fun!

[roracer70]

send me pm with the address, you guys know when im working, just tell me when it's cool to do this.

[roracer70]

btw you guys get too see my new rims and tires, the rims are used but in decent shape. unless its wet or i power brake it i can't brake them loose lol.

[Frankie]

btw you guys get too see my new rims and tires, the rims are used but in decent shape. unless its wet or i power brake it i can't brake them loose lol.

With that rear gear, you could probably do the same with Futura tires from Pep Boys :D

[roracer70]

lol i could burn my indy firehawks like they were nothing. but they were like 245 on a 14 inch rim. now i have 295/50/15 bf goodrich. for what i spent i dont want to smoke them, but i would like to know i have the power to do it.

[Frankie]

I've got some 255's Mickey's on 14" rally's and it's pretty hard to light 'em up. They hear up real quick and just take off.

[roracer70]

yea, i love how these tires grip, and how they look compared to the tires in my sig. those rims came with the car when we bought it for 500 dollars. but the car was trashed when i got it. quick, but trashed lol.

[70Z]

Frank check your pm

[EliteZ]

roracer, I think I saw your car (one pictured in signature) around town a few times. Looks awesome. That 250 degrees could have messed up some major components, but seeing how it is still running I think its safe to assume the bottom end is fine. for 1500-2000 bucks you could get an awesome pair of aluminum Canfield heads (220flow) for around 1200-1300 bucks. Than just buy like a 550 Flat tappet cam. Or if your into spending your "left over" 700 bucks, invest in like a 570 solid roller cam/lifter setup. Those 2 things with a proper matched intake (like Street Dominator/Performer RPM, etc) should net you around 360-390HP along with your MSD billet setup. I read all this thread but forgot if you mentioned if you had a aftermarket torque converter, you should invest in a 2500 stall. Get a shift kit in your tranny (most likely a TH350 right?) and like others suggested get atleast a 3.73 ring/pinion for the back.


And with some proper hookup at the track you should see at the least low 8's with some slicks/ et streets/drag radials.

[Suicidal Racing]

Canfield heads are nice but trust me go with pro action heads.they flow better right out the box and u can get the 235 aluminum ones for like 1300$

i do alot of research in heads and other pointless b.s,many times i have been up at 4 in the monring compareing flow numbers and avg them out to see witch ones are better.

[74javelin]

wow, i'm shocked. what do stock 350 heads flow?

[Suicidal Racing]

I Would Say Around 240cfm Intake Or Less.i'm Not Sure Though I Never Flowed A Stock 350 Head.i Might Have Some Numbers In Some Paper Work But It Would Take Me A Long Ass Time To Get To.it Also Depends On What Heads We Are Talking About From G.m There Are So Many 23 Degree Heads Its Crazy.i Can Tell U The Best 23 Flowing Head That Ever Came From G.m Witch Is The Pontiac 867 Raised Runner Heads.witch I Just So Happen To Have A Set For Sale.mine Flow Just Over 360cfm On The Intake Side.

[Frankie]

wow, i'm shocked. what do stock 350 heads flow?

Saying, "Stock 350 heads," is kinda broad since the 350 has been produced since the 60's. In the 60's, the heads were pretty good given the technology available, but as soon as smog regulations came in, the heads basically went to shit. They didn't really start to pick up again until the LT1.

[roracer70]

hm, i'm not sure if this will help, but my engine is cheapest long block gm sells. its the direct replacement for 1970-85 or 86 years. if there is a way to read the numbers on the head's tell me and i'll give you the number. and thank you guys for the head and cam info. this is deffinetly helping my with what to get and how much to save. as far as a torque converter, i beleive its stock. my other tranny that got chewed up had a shift kit and the other engine was EXTREMELY LOOSE! but i used to be able to keep up with other v8'swith no problem. when we had my other tranny in and the engine was just put in, it was faster then before. but shit kept happening to it and now it has a stock rebuilt tranny in it. so i know the that is where one of my many problems lie lol.

[roracer70]

p.s. you definetly should see me around town cause i workin in dunedin at main and keene.

[Frankie]

http://www.mortec.com/

That site will answer any casting # questions you have.

[roracer70]

i love almost any year camaro, but i just got a look ata first gen baldwin motion in the new summit. and i have a couple of words, "holy shit." damn it is bad ass.

[roracer70]

2 things. 76cc heads, if that helps. and i thought all 350s were 5 quarts for oil. mine is 4.

[roracer70]

8:5:1 compression, cast dish pistons, hydraulic flat tappet cam. .383/.401 lift lift and 112 degree lobe seperation. right outa the summit.

[Frankie]

8:5:1 compression, cast dish pistons, hydraulic flat tappet cam. .383/.401 lift lift and 112 degree lobe seperation. right outa the summit.

Sounds like a nice engine, for grandma's buick. Next weekend, we're gonna get together and see what we can do to get you a little more pep out of that thing. I'm thinking a $150 cam purchase may be in order. We might even have to get saucy and get some high ratio rockers.

[roracer70]

o yea, something i just remembered. when we first tried to start the engine-yes, there was people who put in engines in cars there helping- my car would never start with the mallory distributor:mad: . BUT! as soon as we swapped in the msd distributor, it fired right up.. dunno if that meant the mallory was bad or not. but im def happy with the msd!:D

[roracer70]

you guys tell me straight up what i should do and i'll start saving.

[70Z]

I agree with frank on your engine. Either we wake that thing up or we're pullin it out. I can't live with the thought that my wife's SUV might have more balls than a Baldwin Motion clone. Thats fucked up!

[Frankie]

you guys tell me straight up what i should do and i'll start saving.

Let's get all the numbers together. I have a copy of Desktop Dyno that I can plug the numbers into to get a somewhat accurate dyno graph. After we have that, we can plug cams and other goodies into it to see how the curve changes. With that cam, you'll definitely see a big increase off of some more lift and duration. Plus, the engine'll sound cool. Did you ever hear me start my SS while you were hanging out across the street? I ran it with open headers for a week :D

[roracer70]

Sounds like a nice engine, for grandma's buick. Next weekend, we're gonna get together and see what we can do to get you a little more pep out of that thing. I'm thinking a $150 cam purchase may be in order. We might even have to get saucy and get some high ratio rockers.

actually, my grandma drives a 1977 delta 88 pace car replica with a 403 v8:D . i've got pics atmy house, i'll tr to upload them tonight.

[roracer70]

i remember you turning outa westlake one day tearin ass and i was like, o shit. that car has balls. you car sounds awsome.

[Frankie]

It's a damn shame I sold that intake manifold I had sitting around. I had a real nice polished, dual plane manifold sitting around. Probably better than the stock GM. If I were you, I'd stuck a medium profile single plenum on the motor though. They keep enough torque for the street still, but breathe like hell.

[roracer70]

right now i gota dual plane, edelbrock performer intake manifold. and if you clean them, careful of the made in usa flag, they rub right off......when we swapped engines, we had a wood spacer,A.E. said it was ok to use, warped the carb. but like i said, to me that was the fastest the car has ever run. even if it did only run for a couple of minutes lol.

[Dano Moparo]

Wood spacers don't last long. Really only recommended for race use. The guy at AE should be slapped for telling you that.

[roracer70]

i would have loved to slap him. especially since is cost like 270 for another carb. and i've always made it a point that its my daily driver.i've been considering another kind of spacer, i could hace made one in ptec outa aluminum. but i know that with aluminum carbs the gas boils and causes hard starts. but i really only get hard starts cause my alternator is crap and the battery i have is low.and i have the kit to move a new optima in the trunk, but my neighbor who builds hot rods says i need a thicker gauge wire then what they gave me. said i'll burn out something, but i forget what it was.

[Frankie]

I've had a wood spacer in my car for like 2-3 years, you pussies. The Edelbrock dual plane is good. I have one of those on the 350 I'm running now. Tell you what, if you could, post up a list of detailed specs on that engine. I know I seen some head stuff fly by before, but if you get a chance, get the casting #'s off the heads so I can check the valve size and maybe look up some flow #'s. I'll plug that in, with your comp. ratio, cam specs, intake manifold, carburetor CFM, and exhaust setup, to DD and see what kinda numbers it says. Then I'll take a look at some cheapy Comp flat tappet cams to see what'll work best. With the cam you have in there now, you have potential for a lot more grunt by just swapping that out. It's a reletively cheap upgrade and I can help you do it in one afternoon. SBC cam swaps are cake :D

[Frankie]

Oh, and I need to mention again that the lope and surge from a healthy cam makes it worth it, even without any power gains. I swear, I get a partial whenever my SS idles. Compared to the Torino, which has a stock Ford cam in it, it's night and day.

[roracer70]

i read that about your partial and started laughing in front of my customers and they started to look at me like im nuts. i'll either tear off the valve cover to get the head numbers or i'll just call gm.

[70Z]

Just throwing this out as info..Here's the specs for my motor. It sounds pretty good, at least to me, and is very well behaved on the street yet very strong from 2-7K rpm.


Cam #3972178



http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifintake duration of 317 degrees
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifexhaust duration of 346 degrees
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifoverlap of 96 degrees
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifLift - Intake - .4586" (includes lash - .024")
Exhaust - .4850" (includes lash - .030")
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifrocker arm ratio of 1.5 to 1)

Heads
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifcast iron
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gif2.02 inch diameter intake valves
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gif1.60 inch diameter exhaust valves
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gif64cc combustion chamber
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifscrew-in rocker arm studs with hardened steel pushrod guide plates
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifintake valve 2.02 in.
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifexhaust valve 1.60 in.



Induction
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gifcast-aluminum, high-rise, dual plane intake
http://ca.geocities.com/mlvd@rogers.com/_themes/expeditn/expbul1a.gif780-cfm 4 barrel carb with1.686 inch diameter primary and secondary throttle bores

[Frankie]

We can improvise some generic GM heads for the sake of ease.

Tom, that's some serious cam in there. Are you talking about actual duration or advertised duration?

[EliteZ]

Well Frank is a very knowledgable guy. Listen to him. but if you want to do it all up. I wouldnt start with that dished piston setup. I am selling a 355 shortblock right now for 800 with heads(heads need 3 angle valve job) and than just slap it together.

A good strong motor for your car if you want to buy a crate engine(my experiences more expensive if you buy these)
would be http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=19713&parentCategoryId=10763&langId=-1

from Edelbrock or
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10001&categoryId=19691&parentCategoryId=10763&langId=-1
From GM.

but if I were you, just buy the parts yourself.

Buy my engine, buy about a .475 cam for it. 3 angle valve job. Put your intake/distributor/oil pan on it, and its ready to put in. It should give you the edge.

[70Z]

Frank, thats advertised. The actual is 254I/254E.

I have the GM part number, I think some call it the 30-30 cam? Basically it was the stock cam for a '70 LT1 and the offroad option for the '69 DZ 302 motor. I seem to remember someone telling me you could buy a hydraulic version now days.

I threw it out there since were talking about a daily driver. It's got a great lope to it..most people think I've replaced the stock cam..It's strong through the whole power band and yet it's very streetable. Before you guys were born..back in 79-80 I drove a '70 z everyday with no problems other than gas. 11:1 like's 100 octane+. He won't have that problem with his motor.

Speaking of heads..I think I know a guy with a bunch of 2.02/humpback heads for sale. I imagine the newer stuff is far better, but building a SB Chevy based on LT1 specs(the real Lt1, not this new shit) was a pretty common thing in my day. Like I said, they ran strong and yet well enough behaved to drive everyday.

Forgot 1 thing..The problem with this cam is you cannot run A/C with it because of the duration..Not enough vacuum. Doesn't really matter cause when you can pull rpm's that fast, you'd burn up the compressor or lose the belt anyway.

[roracer70]

not really worried about ac. i've been up since 3:30 am reformatiing my comp and putting all the programs back on it. this is like the fourth comp i've reformatted in the past week.damn im tired........never go to a site that is something like serials.ws-YOU WONT LIKE WHAT HAPPENS!

[roracer70]

o yea, the highest rpm i can get to before it shifts is like 4400-max never had a tach on the other setup, so i dont know what it was doing before

[Frankie]

Maybe your TV kickdown or vacuum lines to the tranny aren't hooked up right?

Tom, that cam sounds very nice for street use, and probably has a killer lope to it.

Quickdomesticracer, we're just talking about cheapy mods to get a little more beef out of the motor. If I were up to me, we'd yank that 350, bore it .030" over, stroke it, and slack a new 3.76" stroke crank in there. Nothing beats a 383 for street use and one day I'll finish the one I have on the stand :D

[Frankie]

not really worried about ac. i've been up since 3:30 am reformatiing my comp and putting all the programs back on it. this is like the fourth comp i've reformatted in the past week.damn im tired........never go to a site that is something like serials.ws-YOU WONT LIKE WHAT HAPPENS!

Firefox + NoScript is your friend.

[roracer70]

lol, yea. i usually use firefox.and yea if i could afford it i would love a 383. if i can get better or the same mileage-right now, 7 miles to the gallon.

[Frankie]

lol, yea. i usually use firefox.and yea if i could afford it i would love a 383. if i can get better or the same mileage-right now, 7 miles to the gallon.

You're kinda SOL on the mileage. If you want economy, better get a different car :D

[roracer70]

lol yea, i figured that. it would be great to get my mom's bimmer. 94 325ic black, 5 speed, straight 6. she doesn't let me drive though:(

[EliteZ]

At Gearhead Performance (right down the street from Dunedin UPS Store on Main Street) there is a long block on a stand 383 stroker for like 2695 or so. Just need ignition and carburator.

[roracer70]

did you two ever decide a date or time?

[70Z]

This coming weekend works for me...Maybe sat morning? Frank?

[roracer70]

sat is kewl for me, i just needed to know so i could tell work i need that day off. that's if its ok for frank.

[Frankie]

I have to go car shopping with my little sis sometime Saturday, but otherwise I'm free. By free, I mean I'll be hungover. I have to change the oil in the Caddy anyway and the Camaro needs a bath and a little nailpolish touch up. Sounds like a good day to gearhead.

[roracer70]

if you wanna give me a call so we can set up a time and your location i can send a pm or my aim name is roracer70.

[roracer70]

o yea, whenever the neighbors came over to help they were either drinking, drunk, or hung over and just waking up from being drunk lol.

[Frankie]

You PM'd me your #, right? Who is bringing the beer?

[70Z]

Are we doing this tomorrow?

btw, found a 72 z28/rs with a 427 in it out of a tri-power corvette. Car needs a resto to be nice but it's solid and real. Price is 6500 which ain't bad. In the meantime it would make for one bad ass fun ride.

[Frankie]

Shit, I just got back from car shopping with my sis. Maybe tomorrow?

[Frankie]

Alright gentlemen, I'm awake and it's starting to look a little better out. Call me, 727-692-2716, and we can get down.

[Dunecune442]

you guys tell me straight up what i should do and i'll start saving.

Beat the hell out of that motor and drop something respectable in there. A car that good looking deserves a 383 at least or a really built 327/350.

[Frankie]

Beat the hell out of that motor and drop something respectable in there. A car that good looking deserves a 383 at least or a really built 327/350.

It's got a 350, ya fuck. All it needs are some bolt-ons and it'll run strong.

[70Z]

Did you guys get on the computer and figure out a plan of attack?

[Dunecune442]

It's got a 350, ya fuck. All it needs are some bolt-ons and it'll run strong.

How much is it going to cost to make respectable power compared to a drop in crate motor? Not just parts but time to put all the parts in, trouble shoot any bullshit that usually comes up etc. He could A) Spend 5,000 on a crate motor that makes very nice #s or B) Have a spare 350 block and build that up while he abuses this once. This is his daily driver, by the time everything is said and done hes not going to have a car for atleast 3 weeks.

If your talking about "bolt ons" like a 1500 head, 400 headers, 400 intake manifold, 300 carb your already looking at 2600. Then we arent even touching new pistons, rods, crank, cams, etc.

So lets do the math. His motor right now pushes about 280hp. With those bolt ons Id say around 335-350 tops with a good tune. Thats $2600 later and alot of downtime.

OR he buys a crate motor, thats good to go and has all the goodies put in already.

OR like I said, build up a good spare block. Put the beefy internals, high flowing heads, crazy cam, leak of a carb, all the good stuff.

I can see where your coming from Frankie, I love 350s. However I wouldnt consider a few grand to be a quick fix or anything. If hes going to invest time and money he might as well get it done right the first time, and not go back and forth having a car this week and not the next week. And you dont even know if any of his pistons are fucked.

[Frankie]

You're talking about a 19 year old guy with limited funds. Shit, even I wouldn't spend the money for a high HP crate motor. Right now in my '67 SS, I'm running virtually the same setup as him, except I have a high pro cam and some shorter gears. My 350 is low compression, shitty iron heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, and Edelbrock Performer 4 barrel.

This kid literally has the same setup as me, except a 194/202 duration cam (or something shitty like that). The cam in my Cadillac is a 192/198! I'm telling you, $150-$200 spent on a cam/lifter kit and appropriate gaskets, maaaaaaaybe $80-$100 spent on higher ratio rockers, and $500-$1000 put into the rear end for posi and some 3.73's or 4.11's, and the kid'll have totally respectable, low 13 second street car.

Plus, the biggest question, where's the fun in a crate motor? Buying a crate lacks pride, fun, learning, and the stories that come along with all of that. I've met a lot of people by working on my car and learned a lot by screwing things up. With a crate, he's gonna learn how to bolt up a transmission and some engine mounts. Not worth it if you ask me.

[Dunecune442]

You're talking about a 19 year old guy with limited funds. Shit, even I wouldn't spend the money for a high HP crate motor. Right now in my '67 SS, I'm running virtually the same setup as him, except I have a high pro cam and some shorter gears. My 350 is low compression, shitty iron heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, and Edelbrock Performer 4 barrel.

This kid literally has the same setup as me, except a 194/202 duration cam (or something shitty like that). The cam in my Cadillac is a 192/198! I'm telling you, $150-$200 spent on a cam/lifter kit and appropriate gaskets, maaaaaaaybe $80-$100 spent on higher ratio rockers, and $500-$1000 put into the rear end for posi and some 3.73's or 4.11's, and the kid'll have totally respectable, low 13 second street car.

Plus, the biggest question, where's the fun in a crate motor? Buying a crate lacks pride, fun, learning, and the stories that come along with all of that. I've met a lot of people by working on my car and learned a lot by screwing things up. With a crate, he's gonna learn how to bolt up a transmission and some engine mounts. Not worth it if you ask me.

I do agree its not very much fun getting a crate motor, but be careful this is his daily driver. He can only afford down time for so long. Not everyone has 453654 cars to drive like yourself :lol:

Yeah, the rear end options you listed would be nice, however he did express concern over gas mileage. Remember, he needs something streetable and hes already getting 7-10 mpg, easy on his wallet man haha.

Crate motor was just an option btw. No way in hell would I spend that either.

No I completely understand where your coming from though Frankie. Building a motor is alot of fun, Id just build another more serious motor on the side and drop it in when ready. You dont have to buy all the parts at once, its not a bad thing to buy things over time. I just wouldnt invest too much money into this motor, for the simple fact that the internals just arent up to par for anything really serious. Some extra ooomph is fine, but I dont think that motor would last with anything fun like 450hp etc. Im not too savy on cast internals and alot of runs, bad friend examples (except they had hondas, but same difference).

[roracer70]

well, this motor in now wouldn't be as bad as it is if it werent for everyone telling me i was just over-reacting when i look at my gauges and i can tell something was wrong lol.as for power, frankie, and a few other builders have told me about the cam, maybe heads-frankie pointed out rockers, i never even thought about those until he mentioned them. my friend that i went to school with has some connections for rear-ends,or at least gears, so im going to see if he can hook me up with one for cheap. looked at my tickets, my first one was feb 20 2004, the second one was feb 21 2005. first cop talked to me and blah blah blah, the second cop in westlake was a dick and when i told him there was now way i was going that fast, i didn;t even have my foot on the damn gas where he "supossedly" got me on radar. not only that, where he said i was doing 50 a tree uprooted the road. if i was going 50 i would have been like hitting a speed bump going 50, no fuckin way i would have stayed on the road!but whatever, he was a dick. and he had to go fuck my night up. as if wakin up for school at 5:30 wasn't bad enough, right after school i went to work till ten. and worked on my car for close to an hour. and he chased my ass! i had enough time to idle down my street, reverse into my diveway, open the garage, roll up my windows, and step outa the car before he even put his lights on.i was still in my cvs uniform with dirty arms and hands and he told me i was just speeding for no reason and he didn't beleive me that i just worked on my car. i had the damn reciepts of the parts i bought during the 20 minutes i had before i had to go to work.well enough complaining lol. im on the phone right now and the clerk and the supervisor so far are saying that they just fucked up. anywho, def want a cam,and as soon as i can im going to change the vac line on the tranny.btw, frankies 67 camaro and 71 torino kick ass. and tom, damn. damn is that one hell of a car.

[roracer70]

lol sorry i didn't realise i just blabbed on for that long.

[Frankie]

Cast internals in a smallblock can take about 450-500hp before they blow up. You really have to worry more about twisting a cast crank more than powering it. They don't like to spin up much past 7000 RPM, but I've had my cast 350 well up over 8k already. If we swap the cam and rockers, that engine's gonna put out low 300's for HP anyway, so it'll be totally reliable for street use still. The cam's gonna give it a nice surge of power, a good exhaust note, and a killer idle.

7-10 MPG is par with a Camaro, I think he understands that. Trying to get MPG out of a 1st or 2nd gen F-Body is pointless. Might as well just enjoy the ride, you know? Why do you think I bought my Cadillac? :D

[roracer70]

thats another reason i want a 240z

[Frankie]

thats another reason i want a 240z

Buy american.

[70Z]

My 350 is low compression, shitty iron heads, Edelbrock RPM intake, and Edelbrock Performer 4 barrel.





Frank, that motor of yours sounds downright nasty if you ask me. I know one thing, if you pulled up next to me loping away like that I'd behave myself...LOL! Very well done!

Kevin, thanks for the Kudo's. With as young as you are, you keep at it and I'm sure your car will kick mine's ass down the road. You sure seem to have a good solid starting point with that car. Like Frank has already said, it just needs to be woken up. A cam and some gears and I swear you'll think you have a new engine.

[roracer70]

thank you both. o and someone fucked up with my license. but for some reason i had to pay 5.25 for her to say that i did everything for my tickets

[Frankie]

Frank, that motor of yours sounds downright nasty if you ask me. I know one thing, if you pulled up next to me loping away like that I'd behave myself...LOL! Very well done!

Kevin, thanks for the Kudo's. With as young as you are, you keep at it and I'm sure your car will kick mine's ass down the road. You sure seem to have a good solid starting point with that car. Like Frank has already said, it just needs to be woken up. A cam and some gears and I swear you'll think you have a new engine.

Hah, well I'm as domestic rice as can be, what can I say? I really wish I knew what cam I had in there, it'd be great cam to stick in that 350 crate. When I had it out, I couldn't find anything on the casting #'s though.

Exactly. A cam and some gears and you won't even remember what your car used to run like. :D

[Dunecune442]

Frankie what happened to that motor you were building? Did you ever finish it, last I checked it was still on the stand.

And 240s kick ASS with a small block (or big block :)) They are as american as you can get, without the handling like a boat thing :lol:.

[Frankie]

Frankie what happened to that motor you were building? Did you ever finish it, last I checked it was still on the stand.

Yup, still there. I had money set to buy my parts, and then I got tossed out of my house. I had to spent $2000 on moving costs instead. Fuckers.

[Suicidal Racing]

chevy internals can take some shit.my old 327 that i had built was a monster even when she was off the bottle.i had a stock 327 crank from 1969 with a set of reconditoned small journal rod that had 190psi arp rod bolts and some trw dome pistons,my car made around 610rwhp and ran a 6.58 at 108 and she was 3100#.yes i did have a killer set of heads that flowed almost 330cfm and i did run 13-1 compression and a .690 lift cam.yes i was on a 150 shot but i spun my engine to 7200rpms and my rev chip was set at 8k.no if parts that where over 35 years old can take that your engine could take some power.

[roracer70]

lol, well after everyone putting in their two cents, hows about some specific cams? and as frankie pointed out some rockers too.

[Suicidal Racing]

i would go with like a 550 lift cam,like a 108 lobe.it will give u a nice chopey idle but it wont give u the head ache like a 106 lobe would.duration i would say look for something in the 230 range.as for roller rockers,i would go with a roller set like comp cams,if i where u i would just do an all roller valve train setup.some will say thats over kill.but it will free up some hp and its better on your valve train and it will probley save u some money in the long run.if u want this thing to make good power one day.u will already have the roller stuff and u wont have to be buying all new stuff when u do a 500hp build or more.

[Frankie]

Ghost is right about duration, 230-240 is probably nice for street. 108 on the lobe? That's pretty serious, I was thinking more like a 110. He daily's this car, the 108 might actually get annoying.

I wouldn't waste the money on a roller lifter setup. That engine is still low compression with shitty heads, so it'd be overkill. Just whack a nice flat tappet cam in the thing for now, and if you really want balls, build something from the ground up later.

Ghost, could you recommend a nice flat tappet cam that we'd be able to pick up locally? Comp, Crane, Lunati, etc...

[Suicidal Racing]

whats the stall in the car right now,also how are the springs in them heads whats the lift it could take.i was just looking at the comp cams kit witch comes with cam,lifters,springs retainers and all the other shit.


if u want i can look for an whole top end for u,like heads,cam,rockers,lifters,push rods,intake and valve covers.i see them from 1000 and on up.shit i've sold top ends like that before.i know it is alot easier for the stuff to sell as a package then to try and part the stuff out.

[roracer70]

well, its really up to who is helping me, cause i know nothing about engines, i have an engine rebuilding book from haynes, and thats about it.as for the heads, really not sure. frank said he'd help me with rockers and a cam, if hes up to doing that and if the car will still be able to be my daily driver, then i'll think about it.

[roracer70]

and im really not sure what the stall is, is there an easy way of telling on an auto?

[Suicidal Racing]

with the stall. when u stomp in the brake and give it gas and your tires dont spin tell u hit a certian rpm that is your stall speed.

heres a top end deal i found.
http://www.racingjunk.com/exec/ca/view/602754/SBC-roller-motor-top-end-parts.html

[roracer70]

so just look at my tach when i power brake and when the tires start to spin is my stall/ and what two ponits on a carrier do i measure to find out if its a 7.5,8.2,8.5?

[Frankie]

I heard the car run, and with a high 2.something rear end, I'm pretty sure he's got a stock converter. I don't know how to change a converter, since I'm a manual transmission kinda guy, but I'm sure we could get someone in here to help. Like I told you this weekend, if we get too agressive with the cam, the engine is gonna stall when you put it in gear if you have the stock converter.

Don't worry, we'll keep the car totally streetable, so it can still be your daily driver.

[roracer70]

this is something i would do if i had money to spare, but right now if i get anothe car it has to be gas friendly.btw frankie, i know you said keep it american, but is this at least american enough? lol http://www.cardomain.com/ride/1725099

[Frankie]

Nah, I hate smallblock swaps into Japanese cars. Get yourself a bro-ham. I pulled 17 MPG out of that beast last tank.

[roracer70]

your kidding me! damn.just trying to remember, you had said if we do just the cam androckers that would take one day to do right? well when we do that is it going to be like when i first got this engine and had to break it in?

[Frankie]

your kidding me! damn.just trying to remember, you had said if we do just the cam androckers that would take one day to do right? well when we do that is it going to be like when i first got this engine and had to break it in?

Yeah, we can do a cam and rockers in a couple hours on a Saturday morning. It's pretty much a straight forward, simple job in a smallblock. I don't think romping on a new cam is going to cause any problems, so it should be pretty much instant fun. You know you can't wait to have a nice, choppy idle.

[Suicidal Racing]

i always take an easy on the cam,lifters and rockers at first.but if your just putting in the cam and switching out rockers u shouldn't have any problems.

i use high $ parts and am a poor white guy so i always will be easy at first like 30mins or and hour.after that its on and poping

[roracer70]

o i know. its killing me having to save up for a mere 200-300 dollars

[Suicidal Racing]

shit u think thats bad wait tell u start getting stuff custom made for u.i had 2 custom cams ground for me over a year and a half ago and it ran me close to a grand for them

[Frankie]

o i know. its killing me having to save up for a mere 200-300 dollars

I'm telling you, start suckin' dick somewhere. You'll have that money in no time! :lol: