View Full Version : Turbo cars are harder to drive than I thought.
Video (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTE0NTk1ODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)
In my defense, this was my first run on Kumho MX's and I think they need a little heat to be effective.
Maybe I should have bought that Miata. :oops:
Mars_302
12-03-2005, 06:56 PM
No, that car just wants to drift on its own ;) Isnt that Charles' old s13?
Yeah, I bought it from him a couple weeks ago.
Mars_302
12-03-2005, 07:03 PM
Nice car to buy. You'll have to get used to the spool up though. The few stock turbo SR cars ive driven and ridden, they spool up fast and will easily break most common tires away when it spools up.
His car was pretty quick too. Even on stock boost, him and I were almost even, making a run down the interstate.
Why did you hang it up after your first run? That was a nice car though, very clean looking.
Car was too low for the tires that I put on it. It was rubbing bad even driving at 25% after that spin. That surface has some nice size bumps in it. Charles had 205/45's in the front and I put on 225/50's. They don't work, I am going to have to raise the car up.
Loren let me drive his car instead. Thanks again Loren. I was disappointed that I didn't get to drive my car, but Loren's car was really fun as well.
RoadRacer
12-03-2005, 09:54 PM
yea, the same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago at Sebring. I was in 3rd gear coming out of the water tower turn, the car hit full boost as I was exiting the corner and the ass end rotated on me. I had 205's on the rear and they were useless. I recently purchased 225's to help plant the rear.....and will delay the depress movement of my right foot for a second or two. :lol:
mofugga
12-03-2005, 09:58 PM
Video (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTE0NTk1ODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)
In my defense, this was my first run on Kumho MX's and I think they need a little heat to be effective.
Maybe I should have bought that Miata. :oops:
they don't need "that" much heat to be effective, stop making excuses :lol: it's time for you to learn to steer with the throttle, quite a different car than a civic ;)
_Charles_
12-03-2005, 10:48 PM
You'd be surprised how well a nice set of 205's up front will work. 225's almost sound like a little overkill. Looks like you had a little fun on the run though. I miss her.
Charles
I was considering P315/35R17 on 17 x 10's... :) Well, maybe not that extreme.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/phoenixR34/CIMG1350.jpg
ImportLuv
12-04-2005, 12:49 AM
For sure, its not the car thats causing the problem. Turbo lag isn't the problem. The problem is the driver.
I watched the clip in slow motion, and it seems that you caused the car to understeer before the apex of the turn. You turned too late and too wide into it.
Tip: Use the Ebrake, it's the s-chassis best friend. Brake right before the turn, but don't keep braking through the turn, which will cause understeer.
PseudoRealityX
12-04-2005, 01:10 AM
hahahahaha. good joke.
the gray 240 picture was a pretty neat car in person. Damn thing is seriously fast, and will only get faster with some setup and dial-in time. By the way, a 10" wheel is NOT enough for 315s, you'll want at least 12".
mofugga
12-04-2005, 01:25 AM
For sure, its not the car thats causing the problem. Turbo lag isn't the problem. The problem is the driver.
I watched the clip in slow motion, and it seems that you caused the car to understeer before the apex of the turn. You turned too late and too wide into it.
Tip: Use the Ebrake, it's the s-chassis best friend. Brake right before the turn, but don't keep braking through the turn, which will cause understeer.
tip: ebrake is the sign of a poor driver of which wOrd is not
jaball77
12-04-2005, 05:56 PM
Video (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTE0NTk1ODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)
In my defense, this was my first run on Kumho MX's and I think they need a little heat to be effective.
Maybe I should have bought that Miata. :oops:
What a sissy spin! You didn't even get it all the way around! :lol:
Good thing you had an expert cameraman to catch it all on tape. ;-)
TIM TIM TIM
12-04-2005, 07:37 PM
while i have a mustang and that is a completely differant car. I have noticed that when hitting brakes through a corner actually causes the understeer, while hitting the brakes before and maybe a few light taps through the corner while on the gas is alot easier, it tends to be easier to fight over steer instead of understeer
ImportLuv
12-04-2005, 08:24 PM
tip: ebrake is the sign of a poor driver of which wOrd is not
Why would it be? According to who is it classified as "poor driver" technique?
I used the handbrake on the track many times, and it has helped me recover from understeering. It's not like im planing to ebrake every corner. I use it whenever i have no choice in a turn.
nunyo
12-04-2005, 10:31 PM
I used the handbrake on the track many times, and it has helped me recover from blowing my braking point. It's not like im planing to ebrake every corner. I just use it whenever i have screwed up in entering a turn.
The fact that it can be useful for recovering from mistakes does not make it a good technique. Using it many times means that you've made many mistakes, which isn't altogether a bad thing, so long as you learn from them.
RoadRacer
12-04-2005, 10:37 PM
In the 9 years that I have been going to Sebring to run track events, I have never seen anyone nor has anyone advised me to use the ebrake in a corner.... trail brake yes, ebrake no. They only place that I've seen the ebrake used is in drifting competitions at ocala and palmetto.
Tallgeese0721
12-05-2005, 04:38 AM
could you call it driving style? i know importluv's a drifter and maybe he's used to pulling the ebrake? however, i've read the books, and i haven't really heard of the ebrake to be used unless you're out of control... oh well, who am i to say anything
Loren
12-05-2005, 07:14 AM
This is not the drifting forum.
When racers want to settle the car in a turn or scrub off speed without lifting off of the throttle, they use left-foot braking.
Using the handbrake mid-turn is just asking for a spin... and I've seen it happen.
mofugga
12-05-2005, 07:35 AM
Why would it be? According to who is it classified as "poor driver" technique?
I used the handbrake on the track many times, and it has helped me recover from understeering. It's not like im planing to ebrake every corner. I use it whenever i have no choice in a turn.
what track was this?
you always should have a choice before and during a turn, the fact that you "have no choice" is due to overdriving into the corner. left foot braking, trail braking & lifting off the throttle are better methods of helping the car to rotate.
we're not talking about drifting here ;)
PseudoRealityX
12-05-2005, 10:18 AM
Why would it be? According to who is it classified as "poor driver" technique?
I used the handbrake on the track many times, and it has helped me recover from understeering. It's not like im planing to ebrake every corner. I use it whenever i have no choice in a turn.
According to racecar drivers. IE, not drifters.
If you're understeering, you've already made a mistake.
PseudoRealityX
12-05-2005, 10:22 AM
You'd be surprised how well a nice set of 205's up front will work. 225's almost sound like a little overkill. Looks like you had a little fun on the run though. I miss her.
Charles
Oh...this is just silly. I'd have 245s upfront and 265s or 275s in the rear.
Jeremey, I can't really tell the steering angle as you start hearing the slide, so I can't tell if it's terminal understeer, or the rear end starting coming around as boost came on.
One thing I saw a LOT of at a local event up in Georgia yesterday (Allies vs. Axis) was RWD guys (and FWD) getting a bit loose and dropping throttle completely. That's definately not going to fix the issue. Reducing throttle maybe, but a complete drop will likely make the problem worse.
Tallgeese0721
12-05-2005, 11:40 AM
that reminds me. i was told that with the hp output of my car (around 400), i'd be breaking traction just like whats-his-face (the one who started the thread. sorry, forgot) at the corner exit... will a 9" wide wheel in the back be alright for that? my style of driving (which should be correct), is moderated throttle right after the apex, slowly going to full throttle, using up as much of the track while unwinding the steering wheel. if i follow this, i shouldn't be breaking traction... cuz the boost won't have fully gone up just yet also... please let me know if i dont know what i'm talking about, but this is what i studied.
Loren
12-05-2005, 12:56 PM
That sounds basically correct. The more power you have, the more progressive your application of throttle will have to be. You might not be able to do more than half-throttle until you're completely straight. Where in a stock-powered Miata, I can be full-throttle long before then.
Your tires will tell you how far you can push it.
RoadRacer
12-05-2005, 01:22 PM
that reminds me. i was told that with the hp output of my car (around 400), i'd be breaking traction just like whats-his-face (the one who started the thread. sorry, forgot) at the corner exit... will a 9" wide wheel in the back be alright for that? my style of driving (which should be correct), is moderated throttle right after the apex, slowly going to full throttle, using up as much of the track while unwinding the steering wheel. if i follow this, i shouldn't be breaking traction... cuz the boost won't have fully gone up just yet also... please let me know if i dont know what i'm talking about, but this is what i studied.
Are you going to auto-x or track day the car?
yes, that is what I had to do, part throttle throught the apex and progressive throttle until I was straight. What type of tires are you running? The tires type is very important... it may be wide but if it can't handle the heat it will get greasy after 2 or 3 laps.... then all hell will break loose.
With 400 hp, brake pads and fluid will be just as important as tires.
I have 265 whp and my s13 is a handful at Sebring.
ImportLuv
12-05-2005, 02:41 PM
I ran at that ocala track, and ive done a few laps gripping the turns. Ive used my handbrake when i felt the car will go into understeer, and it helped to eliminate it. If i miss the turn completely, i missed it.
Yanking on the ebrake is going serves almost no purpose when theirs almost no tight turns on that Sebring track.
The kind of track that Word ran at is completely different than sebring.
All im saying is word shouldve prepared for that turn from the very beginning, and blaming turbo lag as the problem isnt right.
All im saying is word shouldve prepared for that turn from the very beginning, and blaming turbo lag as the problem isnt right.
Umm... There wasn't even a turn there. It was just a little offset to the left. I was supposed to go straight back, but was sent flying off to the left when the boost hit. I shortshifted before the first corner and boost hit in second right when I spun. Anyways I wasn't even asking for advice, this thread was just so people could laugh at me. If I need help driving (which I probably will), I will get it at a race, from people who actually know how to drive.
PseudoRealityX
12-05-2005, 05:23 PM
I ran at that ocala track, and ive done a few laps gripping the turns. Ive used my handbrake when i felt the car will go into understeer, and it helped to eliminate it. If i miss the turn completely, i missed it.
Yanking on the ebrake is going serves almost no purpose when theirs almost no tight turns on that Sebring track.
The kind of track that Word ran at is completely different than sebring.
All im saying is word shouldve prepared for that turn from the very beginning, and blaming turbo lag as the problem isnt right.
Please stop posting about how others should drive in THIS forum. Thank you.
ImportLuv
12-05-2005, 05:54 PM
Okie dokie
You guys are really nice, nice ppl here.
_Charles_
12-05-2005, 08:14 PM
Umm... There wasn't even a turn there. It was just a little offset to the left. I was supposed to go straight back, but was sent flying off to the left when the boost hit. I shortshifted before the first corner and boost hit in second right when I spun. Anyways I wasn't even asking for advice, this thread was just so people could laugh at me. If I need help driving (which I probably will), I will get it at a race, from people who actually know how to drive.
I'm not laughing...I hope you become 'one with the car' as I was...I loved her, and she showed me love in return. Treat her right, and she'll give you a nice ride ;)
Charles
mofugga
12-05-2005, 08:17 PM
i was laughing, i only wish i was there to see it in person. i'm also laughing at the drifter telling us to use the ebrake & him refering to not drifting as gripping a corner :lol:
Loren
12-05-2005, 08:19 PM
We are nice people. We just don't like newbs trying to trump experienced drivers with bogus driving tips. If you're absolutely sure that we're wrong, find us some references that suggest using the handbrake in an autocross or road racing environment. I don't expect you'll find such a reference.
Tallgeese0721
12-06-2005, 01:18 AM
Are you going to auto-x or track day the car?
yes, that is what I had to do, part throttle throught the apex and progressive throttle until I was straight. What type of tires are you running? The tires type is very important... it may be wide but if it can't handle the heat it will get greasy after 2 or 3 laps.... then all hell will break loose.
With 400 hp, brake pads and fluid will be just as important as tires.
I have 265 whp and my s13 is a handful at Sebring.
wow... so you pretty much mean i'm gonna be hatin life autoxing my car, eh? :( .... yes, i will try to take the car to the track at least once a month. honestly, that was my main goal (and drift every once in a while :D ) i plan on running kumho ecsta spt or mx. from what i read, they're the best bang for your buck... not only, the spt performs really well. not sure on the heat capacity though. brake pads and brake fluid def won't be looked over. i plan to use fusion brake fluid, not sure what pads yet. thanks...
BeQuietAndDrive
12-06-2005, 02:39 AM
wow... so you pretty much mean i'm gonna be hatin life autoxing my car, eh? :( .... yes, i will try to take the car to the track at least once a month. honestly, that was my main goal (and drift every once in a while :D ) i plan on running kumho ecsta spt or mx. from what i read, they're the best bang for your buck... not only, the spt performs really well. not sure on the heat capacity though. brake pads and brake fluid def won't be looked over. i plan to use fusion brake fluid, not sure what pads yet. thanks...
You could always turn the boost down a notch, right? That might help you out to start with the boost low and turn it higher as you get better with each increase in power.
Tallgeese0721
12-06-2005, 02:56 AM
that's right... didn't think about that. thanks physcomantis
RoadRacer
12-06-2005, 06:57 AM
The first time that I took this car to sebring, I turned down the boost. The mx's should be fine... not sure about the spt. It also depends on how hard you push the car.
I use Hawk HP plus brake pads... I went throught 3 different types to find a set that didn't fade. I prefer Ferodo DS3000, but they are 250! Here is some good info. http://www.splparts.com/Parts/NissanShared/Brakes/Pads/default.asp
What a sissy spin! You didn't even get it all the way around!
I don't think this has ever been posted before...VIDEO (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAzMjYyODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)
"Jason kinda changes the format of the operation"
Notice the tire smoke pouring from the headlights.
jaball77
12-06-2005, 06:37 PM
I don't think this has ever been posted before...VIDEO (http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wMTAzMjYyODZzNDEzZGZkMzF5NTQx)
"Jason kinda changes the format of the operation"
Notice the tire smoke pouring from the headlights.
So embarassing...
What you CAN'T see on the video is me crapping myself.
That right there is the best argument for SLOWING DOWN YOUR INPUTS, hahaha.
Mars_302
12-07-2005, 09:52 PM
wow that was hot, I could just imagine how much further you woulda went if you were in a faster car.
PseudoRealityX
12-07-2005, 10:19 PM
wow that was hot, I could just imagine how much further you woulda went if you were in a faster car.
Yes...but "going further" with a car isn't nearly as good as "going further" with a girl. ;)
Leonard
12-08-2005, 12:54 AM
I ran at that ocala track, and ive done a few laps gripping the turns. Ive used my handbrake when i felt the car will go into understeer, and it helped to eliminate it. If i miss the turn completely, i missed it.
Yanking on the ebrake is going serves almost no purpose when theirs almost no tight turns on that Sebring track.
The kind of track that Word ran at is completely different than sebring.
All im saying is word shouldve prepared for that turn from the very beginning, and blaming turbo lag as the problem isnt right.
Jerking around with the ebrake did not elminate your understeer. Did it upset the car causing the rear end to step out? Quite likely. Did it scrub off a little bit of speed and allow you to turn better? yes. Did you sacrifice control of the car unnecessarily? Yes. (Disagree? Try to convince me that you have as much control with one hand on the wheel as two.) Are there ways you could have accomplished a similar task without using the ebrake? Yes. trailbraking into the turn woudl help. Left foot braking could help. Lifting your foot off the throttle a touch could help. Giving it more gas in the right car can help as well. All of these are preferrable to the ebrake. It's crude. You don't have preceise control over the effect your input has on the car. Of course, if you're a fag who like to make big smokey red burnouts while you slide around the track the slow way, then go for it. Just don't try to sell it as a technice remotely related to racing. If ebrakes were good for racing, you'd see them on F1 cars, cart, irl and nascar. You don't.
BTW. Everyone else was nice to you. I'm the not so nice guy and even I'm being nice to you (for me). Just ask Loren. :-D
BeQuietAndDrive
12-08-2005, 01:11 AM
Leonard gave you practical advice; therefore, he is being quite nice.
Muddy
12-08-2005, 07:18 AM
Yes...but "going further" with a car isn't nearly as good as "going further" with a girl. ;)
How would you know? :lol:
PseudoRealityX
12-08-2005, 10:19 AM
How would you know? :lol:
Well I certainly wouldn't have been taught by you. ;)
Muddy
12-08-2005, 10:23 AM
The only thing I know about women is that they are all nuts! I know even less about cars. :lol:
Tallgeese0721
12-09-2005, 01:08 AM
The only thing I know about women is that they are all nuts! I know even less about cars. :lol:
i know even less about women! :P were you part of the 82nd? i see their patch as your avatar. they were here in kandahar for about 6 months and then left a few weeks ago...
Muddy
12-09-2005, 08:19 AM
i know even less about women! :P were you part of the 82nd? i see their patch as your avatar. they were here in kandahar for about 6 months and then left a few weeks ago...
I was in the 82nd many years ago. I went to the 82nd after finishing my tour with the 1st Armored Division, just after Desert Storm.
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