Soldering vs. Crimping

[Chris]

I have always soldered my leads on installations, unless I was in a big hurry. i thought you guys might find this interesting. Apparently via testing, etc... NASA only uses crimped connections based on their work standards for it's vibration resistance.

http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/201%20General%20Requirements.html

[jabtay]

Yeah but you are talking about the org that cannot properly launch a rocket :lol: Personally I like crimping, then I wrap them tight to hold them in place.

[TBSpyder]

Yeah but you are talking about the org that cannot properly launch a rocket :lol: Personally I like crimping, then I wrap them tight to hold them in place.


Yeah, those morons...it's not like it's rocket science or something...oh wait. :roll:


Crimping has always been good enough for me. Only time I ever solder is when doing something very intricate, or repair work.

[Notladstyle]

yes but those are secured crimps with secondary locks or screws to hold them, plus solder splits from pure metals at low temps, I dunno exactly what the temp is in space but its less than zero, here on earth you dont have to worry about subzero temps... permanent wiring in cars should be soldered.

[93ex]

Keep in mind the heat fluxuations of soldering itself can weaken the wires, and makes them prone to breakage in high vibration areas.

In reality it really doesnt matter, just personal preferance

[GradeA_TireFryer]

All The Factory Connections In The Wiring Harneses Are Crimped And The Snaped Into To The Plastic Adapters, For General Use Crimping Is Fine, Fast & Neat,- High Amperage Power Wires Like 4 Guage And Thicker I Like To Crimp Then Solder The Crimp Full Of Soder To Make A Secure Connection

[94EG_Hatch]

All The Factory Connections In The Wiring Harneses Are Crimped And The Snaped Into To The Plastic Adapters, For General Use Crimping Is Fine, Fast & Neat,- High Amperage Power Wires Like 4 Guage And Thicker I Like To Crimp Then Solder The Crimp Full Of Soder To Make A Secure Connection

No their not.


GM Standard is Soldering. Even have a procedure and cut length. It promots better continuity. Soldering is always Better. NASA Crimps because Solder will freeze and go brittle read that entire piece about WHY they Crimp.

[Notladstyle]

No their not.


GM Standard is Soldering. Even have a procedure and cut length. It promots better continuity. Soldering is always Better. NASA Crimps because Solder will freeze and go brittle read that entire piece about WHY they Crimp.

Crimps in cars are more for cost conrol than anything else. theres no arguing that properly soldered connections are superior in conductivity and last longer.

[Chris]

Interesting, so some of you think that Nasa doesn't need solid connections with perfect conduction.....

Does NASA use crimped connections for their strength and vibration resistance (and cars have vibration issues as well obviously) - of course - but do you think they would sacrifice performance in any way because of it?

:tard:

[TNathe]

interesting, good article. Its amazing how strict they are on some of their wires. Like if the crimp changes the twist in the wire in any way it does not pass inspection. But good article, should make my wiring a little neater next time.

[Notladstyle]

Interesting, so some of you think that Nasa doesn't need solid connections with perfect conduction.....

Does NASA use crimped connections for their strength and vibration resistance (and cars have vibration issues as well obviously) - of course - but do you think they would sacrifice performance in any way because of it?

:tard:

no you are missing the argument, here on earth, solder is hands down the best form of connection for vibration and longevity because it lasts the longest and performs the best - in above 0 degree temperatures

in space the temperatures are so low that solder would not bond the metals hence crimping is the bst alternative. THat also why the computers are soldstate and kept in regulated temperature environments... else the ICs would kinda break off the board and whatnot.

[Chris]

no you are missing the argument, here on earth, solder is hands down the best form of connection for vibration and longevity because it lasts the longest and performs the best - in above 0 degree temperatures

in space the temperatures are so low that solder would not bond the metals hence crimping is the bst alternative. THat also why the computers are soldstate and kept in regulated temperature environments... else the ICs would kinda break off the board and whatnot.


Nope - not missing anything, if anything you are failing to see my point. Forget the method of connection, forget the words crimp or solder, forget everything you have ever learned or read or heard from uncle bob's auto/stereo shop.

Now, imagine that your life depended on the connection of two wires. Imagine that no matter what - those wires had to be connected perfectly, without fail, and they had to have the cleanest electrical signal possible at the same time. WELCOME TO NASA!

Apparently (irregardless of environmental issues) CRIMPING the connections provides them with a solution for all of those, and SOLDERING has shown to weaken the connection, be prone to vibration, etc. Now personally....... my life doesn't depend on my stereo, BUT in other applications (marine, aviation, etc) it can.

And don't forget, not everything nasa operates flies into the great beyond in sub-zero temperatures.....

[TNathe]

The point is right here in plain text.

Crimping is an efficient and highly reliable method to assemble and terminate conductors, and typically provides a stronger, more reliable termination method than that achieved by soldering.

[Notladstyle]

after actually looking at the site, I found that nasa does lots of soldering.


http://workmanship.nasa.gov/wppr_wc_ss.jsp
http://nepp.nasa.gov/wirebond/
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/ws_8739_3.jsp

and soldering is still the best use for bonding wires as read here...

http://workmanship.nasa.gov/guidadv_recmeth.jsp

[TBSpyder]

The point is right here in plain text.


Bingo. As mentioned, soldering has negative effects on the wire itself..which I see first hand daily, but if you think it's so great, go right ahead and solder your little hearts out.

[Notladstyle]

Bingo. As mentioned, soldering has negative effects on the wire itself..which I see first hand daily, but if you think it's so great, go right ahead and solder your little hearts out.

only those skilled in the art of the 5 second rule shall solder, all other use plastic.

[94EG_Hatch]

You ever see the inside of an aviation mainframe ? Like on a C130 ? I have Two Very close friends both in the AF and they are BOTH crew Chiefs. And They Took a 2 week Course on Soldering and Micro Soldering to repair Boards and Connections in the avionics. I will NEVER Trust a Crimped Wire. Plus it looks ghetto. You Put a Properly Soldered and Heatshrinked Harness next to a crimped harness and then show it two 5 people who now nothing of the two and ask them Which would you prefer and 9 times out of ten They will pick the Soldered and Shrinked Wiring !

I do more Best Buy Crimp Job Repairs at work its not funny. If you wire your system with Butt Connectors and Crimp caps, You need to take a class on soldering !

[Notladstyle]

You ever see the inside of an aviation mainframe ? Like on a C130 ? I have Two Very close friends both in the AF and they are BOTH crew Chiefs. And They Took a 2 week Course on Soldering and Micro Soldering to repair Boards and Connections in the avionics. I will NEVER Trust a Crimped Wire. Plus it looks ghetto. You Put a Properly Soldered and Heatshrinked Harness next to a crimped harness and then show it two 5 people who now nothing of the two and ask them Which would you prefer and 9 times out of ten They will pick the Soldered and Shrinked Wiring !

I do more Best Buy Crimp Job Repairs at work its not funny. If you wire your system with Butt Connectors and Crimp caps, You need to take a class on soldering !

+1 soldering > crimping
heatshrink <pwns> tape

[Kirk]

it works either way but crimping looks ghetto.

[ItsGinn]

hehe this is a funny thread, im an Aircraft Electrical and Environmental Technician I laugh a the post about how crew cheifs taking courses on soldering and micro soldering... Not only do crew chiefs never solder the Air Force never solders components on the line that is all done at depot level never in the field or even in repair shops.

Back to the argument at hand, as for best conductivity, Soldering is the best if done properly. More solder isnt the best being the high lead content of most solders. (60/40 tin/lead) is the standard for most applications with copper connections.

Most regular applications in the majority of USAF aircraft is crimped connectors. There is strict rules on when and where stuff can be spliced but as for butt end connectors and cannon plugs with pin connectors. This is of course due to ease of installation and cost effectivness.

Using NASA as a reference for anything is kind of pointless being the complete polar opposites to automobile and spacecraft.

I'll just sum it up with saying, if its feasible to solder it, do it. Avoid Splices and Vampire clips in ANYTHING and just make sure your work is clean, a bad solder joint is worse then a crimp any day.

Btw 94EG Hatch dont take the comment about your friends too seriously there is always a chance they are flying crew chiefs with special dutys that require cut training and specially on those flying pieces that is the C130. But its not the norm for a crew chief to do any soldering :)

[Jordan Y.]

I prefer crimping because I suck at soldering and it takes me forever. Everything online says "heat the work, not the solder" but then I sit there with a soldering iron touching two wires for 5 minutes and not nearly hot enough to melt solder. The only way I can solder is to melt solder with the iron then get it on the wires, then let the solder transfer the heat and it will start to suck through when you add more solder. All in all it's a big pain in the ass, but I still do it in places you can see and in big harnesses just because it looks cleaner than the crimps.

[Notladstyle]

I prefer crimping because I suck at soldering and it takes me forever. Everything online says "heat the work, not the solder" but then I sit there with a soldering iron touching two wires for 5 minutes and not nearly hot enough to melt solder. The only way I can solder is to melt solder with the iron then get it on the wires, then let the solder transfer the heat and it will start to suck through when you add more solder. All in all it's a big pain in the ass, but I still do it in places you can see and in big harnesses just because it looks cleaner than the crimps.

looks like you had a walmart special solder... I heat everything for about 5 seconds and then hit it with solder, easiest way to tell is is the solder beads from the connection point, the wire/metal isnt hot enough yet. solder will bond to a hot connection points quickly... be carefull with LEDs though, Ive lost many a number of LEDs to the heat of solder

[kender]

all of the points so far are good but are we all forgetting the 1 line in armageddon that sums it all up. " .....a million moving parts all made by the lowest bidder."

[94EG_Hatch]

Btw 94EG Hatch dont take the comment about your friends too seriously there is always a chance they are flying crew chiefs with special dutys that require cut training and specially on those flying pieces that is the C130. But its not the norm for a crew chief to do any soldering :)

no offence taken, They both work in the avionics, They actaully are married and thats how they met. They Took the same school I did From General Dynamics. They Do like 75% of Military Electronics and testing.

Back to Topic at hand. Id rather Take the time and Solder and never have to worry about the Stuff Coming apart versus wiggling harness's to make them work after its all crimped. If you know how to solder then your straight. Like stated above you gotta be careful Heat is the #1 killer of electronics. I gotta many NoGo's from overheating Waffers and melting the Shit...Once i found my technuiqe (sp) Ill never crimp.

:thumbdwn: @melting waffer boards !! lol :tard:

[94EG_Hatch]

it works either way but crimping looks ghetto.


People who do this everyday, can atest. Companies with Strict Quality Control I can say can crimp and it will work, but it takes STRONG Standards. For the Common Person. A Soldered Connection will be 100x better. Most People will put 3 wires wrapped up in a crimp and call it a day ! Which Wont work. At GM and honda Bioth standards are to solder.

[Subsonic]

there are pros and cons for both... both have areas that one will shine and the other wont...a cold soldered joint will lose more voltage than a badly crimped wire...but a crimped wire is common to lose .03 volts... now a badly soldered joint may not even pass voltage or worse heatup and melt to another wire causing a short that could set fire to your beloved car rare case i know but it can happen... but anyways unless you know how to solder crimp away.... just my .02

[Notladstyle]

Thread Cliffnotes:

In space or anywhere you wouldnt be able to survive without help - Crimp

If you suck at soldering - Crimp (bastard)

If you would rather work on your ride than kick it with your lady... Solder

After I read those NASA specs on soldering, I tried it out while installing my new headunit install. Just fucking amazing.
0.00 volt loss
0.0001 (lowest my meter goes) ohm resistance
STRONG I tugged like a horny guy at a porno it just wont come loose.

For anyone who didnt read it, it generally says dont twist the wires together - just line them up, secure them, heat em, and melt the solder. I didnt use shrink because I was too impatient to go buy it before I installed the hu. The result is outstanding, I will never twist again.
http://notladstyle.com/d/sold.jpg
http://notladstyle.com/d/sold1.jpg

[TBSpyder]

Thread Cliffnotes:

In space or anywhere you wouldnt be able to survive without help - Crimp

If you suck at soldering - Crimp (bastard)

If you would rather work on your ride than kick it with your lady... Solder

After I read those NASA specs on soldering, I tried it out while installing my new headunit install. Just fucking amazing.
0.00 volt loss
0.0001 (lowest my meter goes) ohm resistance
STRONG I tugged like a horny guy at a porno it just wont come loose.

For anyone who didnt read it, it generally says dont twist the wires together - just line them up, secure them, heat em, and melt the solder. I didnt use shrink because I was too impatient to go buy it before I installed the hu. The result is outstanding, I will never twist again.
http://notladstyle.com/d/sold.jpg
http://notladstyle.com/d/sold1.jpg



Nice. And crimped wires look ghetto?? :lmao: So you spend all that time soldering away, and then you wrap a little piece of electrical tape around it? That should hold up great in the Florida heat, in the middle of the summer.

[Notladstyle]

Nice. And crimped wires look ghetto?? :lmao: So you spend all that time soldering away, and then you wrap a little piece of electrical tape around it? That should hold up great in the Florida heat, in the middle of the summer.

I know, impatience is a killer... but I used more than a little piece. after I caked the tape on I put it in a fat ass piece of wire loom. The wiring will probably outlast the stereo. which in my case should be about 4 months before i get bored and replace it.

[GradeA_TireFryer]

you may do all that work on soldiering - probably a better connection but..

then you use a wire harness with crimped ends stuck into a connection that will come apart...
like I said when this thread first started. most factory connections are crimped or a friction connection within every wire harness connector!

[Notladstyle]

you may do all that work on soldiering - probably a better connection but..

then you use a wire harness with crimped ends stuck into a connection that will come apart...
like I said when this thread first started. most factory connections are crimped or a friction connection within every wire harness connector!

no i pulled the 12v acc illum and gnd pins and soldered those too. I dont use the speaker wires so they are taped off. the only friction points are between the harnesses and the components they connect to. And those points are all locking by some mechanism. I couldnt get the pics on the kenwood side out.. but they are so fukin tight im not worried.

The point is not that everything is soldered. Its that because we are not electrical engineers who have a $10k budget to design a cable connector for a light bulb, soldering is the most fool proof way to get the most reliable and clean connection between two broken wires.

But if you know your crap isnt going to be in yoru ride in a year or so(or you'r selling it) crimp away.

[Subsonic]

STRONG I tugged like a horny guy at a porno it just wont come loose.

funny shit

[Jordan Y.]

Update- I killed my damn soldering gun. It was a cheap harbor freight 5 dollar thing, but I'm still annoyed. I was soldering two 10 gauge wires together, just kinda jammed them together because I couldn't do my usual twist hooks that I hook the wires together with. Put the soldering iron on the wires, got a dab of solder touching the wires and the gun, got a puddle of solder going on the gun, then waited for the wires to heat up so the solder would suck in and create a solid joint. Fast forward five minutes, the solder has only sucked in halfway through the wires and the heat doesn't seem to be spreading to the other side well enough for it to keep going, then the gun pops and burns out. Turns out after reading the manual you're only supposed to use it for 48 seconds initially then 12 seconds at a time after that. Whoops. Still, I was mighty pissed, because I the heat just didn't freakin transfer to the wires even with a glob of solder connecting the gun directly to them. I need to see somebody demostrate this process to me in person so I can see what stupid mistakes I am making.

[kpr10is]

Sounds to me like your problem isnt you, your problem is a shitty soldering gun. My Weller does 8 gauge without a problem in no time, just resting the wires on the gun and letting the wires soak up the solder. You get what you pay for, mine was $60 from sears and I couldnt ever go back to a shitty one.

[Notladstyle]

I bought my solder at walmart for 9.99, i usually leave it running for 3 or 4 hours at a time. I've only replaced a solder iron because its cheaper to buy the whole thing that the tips for it.

[94EG_Hatch]

I tourch shit that large !!

[Notladstyle]

I tourch shit that large !!


:wtf: