Scion shut off?

[xoxodani]

ok so the scion message board laughed at me for asking this...

"how come when i do a 180 (the whole e-brake thing) the car shuts off? is it a safety feature?"

they all laughed and said i probably stalled... ok how do u stall an automatic? DOES ANYONE KNOW???

[Nikon]

I'm not too familiar with the cars, but I do know they feature an electronic throttle - 'drive-by-wire'. That might have something to do with it.

:dunno:

[Slash]

Well, once your heading backwords.. I'd say the engine is having a problem being in "drive" at that point...

Sounds like a safety feature to avoid damage to the drivetrain.

[xoxodani]

thats gay- oh well i was just curious on what it was , thanks :)

[3tc power]

wow you pretty and that smile.....um um sorry. all those new cars have so many safety features that if anything out of the ordinary happens the computer would shut the car down.

[JimmyHat]

its becasue when you whip your car in the direction your throwing the fuel to one side of the fuel rail and stalling the motor because lack of fuel. this happened to my buddys ITR when we went tray sliding.



Try E-braking in the other direction and you should be good :naughty:

[xoxodani]

ok will do- ill let u know what happens :)

[Skittle]

:hitit: TWICE!...But yea,what they said...i swear ive seen you on some rating site :dunno:

[Slash]

its becasue when you whip your car in the direction your throwing the fuel to one side of the fuel rail and stalling the motor because lack of fuel. this happened to my buddys ITR when we went tray sliding.



Try E-braking in the other direction and you should be good :naughty:

Dude... the entire rail should always be filled... i mean there isnt air in there or open space.. It wouldnt be "under pressure" if there was open space for it to slosh around and the car would never run right.. Personally I can be almost POSITIVE that its because your buddies ITR was bogging down while trying to push the engine "against itself" during a slide. Fuel pressure does not become a problem with side loads unless the load is great enough and the fuel level low enough that nothing actually goes into the pump. But the only time ive EVER heard of this happening, is cars on slicks, going onto a circle track for the first time, without proper fuel tank modification, and under 2 gallons in the tank.

Seriously guys, where do you come up with this stuff sometimes. I mean sliding gives far less lateral G than the same car giving itself the best rate of turn it can provide at say 50mph. So who would buy an ITR if the engine shut off when it was providing .82 lateral G on a skidpad.. I mean the car would be complete junk if that happened.

I'm sorry, i'll stop ranting, but just use your heads sometimes guys.

</rant post that comes from answering tech calls at 9AM then seeing this>

[Mike431635]

^^^ I'm with him.

Sounds like some dumb safety feature they put on new cars nowadays.

[JimmyHat]

Dude... the entire rail should always be filled... i mean there isnt air in there or open space.. It wouldnt be "under pressure" if there was open space for it to slosh around and the car would never run right.. Personally I can be almost POSITIVE that its because your buddies ITR was bogging down while trying to push the engine "against itself" during a slide. Fuel pressure does not become a problem with side loads unless the load is great enough and the fuel level low enough that nothing actually goes into the pump. But the only time ive EVER heard of this happening, is cars on slicks, going onto a circle track for the first time, without proper fuel tank modification, and under 2 gallons in the tank.

Seriously guys, where do you come up with this stuff sometimes. I mean sliding gives far less lateral G than the same car giving itself the best rate of turn it can provide at say 50mph. So who would buy an ITR if the engine shut off when it was providing .82 lateral G on a skidpad.. I mean the car would be complete junk if that happened.

I'm sorry, i'll stop ranting, but just use your heads sometimes guys.

</rant post that comes from answering tech calls at 9AM then seeing this>
UH...Good explination Bill Nine! You stick with your theory and I stick with mine. So explain why when doing left "Side Load" will cause a engine to stall on a ITR and a Accord and not a Right "Side Load" Theoretically the load is the same but in opposite directions. But the fuel pressure is designed to stay consistant with no excessive pressure build up. Well if you hold a bucket of water 3 inches above the ground and your shift left, the weight shifts right and it requires more pressure to move the bucket of water back to the left, right? so where the fuel rale requires 20 psi to MAINTAIN fuel pressure you now require 25-30psi to keep the flow to equal in the fuel rale where the pump was only designed to provide 20Psi? so there fore your starving the engine of fuel under a side load and it is stalling out. This all assuming the fuel supply is feed from one side of the rail.

[Slash]

Once again, if there was this "open space" in the rail causing it to lean, then the system isnt under proper pressure. Therefore, you either have a fuel supply problem in the pump, a lack of fuel in the tank itself, or a leak in the system that is allowing air inside.

The idea about water in a bucket is great, except that water isnt pressurized in a bucket, and there also is AIR in the bucket above the water becasue water in a bucket is not a closed system. Last but not least, liquid has a definite volume, it cannot be compressed. If the system is full (as it should always be in a fuel system while the pump is turned on, since pumps are BUILT to supply far more fuel than can be expended through the injectors) then even under side loading the fuel has nowhere to go because it is within a limited volume container and has a definite volume itself.

With the fuel, the only thing coming in is fuel from the tank, that is put under pressure to fill the entire system (aka no air inside to allow movement). All space inside is fuel, when all space within a CLOSED area is filled, then it is always filled regardless of any side load or inerta placed upon it. The pump makes sure it can keep it filled even with injectors opening and closing, if your pump is weak or damaged then it is possible that it was NOT capable of keeping the system under pressure, or if the tank was low on fuel and side load was taking fuel away from the pump, becasue now you are affecting the SUPPLY.

To rest my point, skid pad testing is done by driving a car around in a circle for a minute, finding the average G the car can hold in a constant circle in both directions. Then the numbers from both left and right turns are averaged. For an ITR this is something over .80g. If a stock ITR was fuel starved from tray sliding (aka .6g or less for sure), then it would of not completed the test for any of the magazines, and would have been labeled as rubbish long ago. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN obviously to the ITR or the accord. Therefore I can only conclude one of these things has happened.

1. Lack of fuel supply in the tank (1-2 gallons max) being pushed to the sides of the tank and causing the car to stall because none is reaching the pump.
2. The pump itself is damaged and is not able to fill the rail (however in this case, the rail wouldnt be full under WOT either and the cars would have other symptoms).
3. The car got to be 180 degrees from its direction of travel and was not able to keep the moving forewards and not able to keep the wheels spinning.
4. The car has been modified incorrectly due to lack of proper pump or improper non stock FPR and FPR settings to fill the rail under WOT.

I just REALLY fail to see that this is the problem, I believe that if you guys were tray sliding, most likely it was #3. Because i doubt that the ITR, the accord, AND the scion all have problems in their fuel systems.....

P.S. For a container that has more liquid coming IN than it does coming OUT, it is still "full" but under pressure. Kind of like the pump to the injectors.

[Slash]

Oh yeah, for the left and right side load differences. I think for the ITR and the Accord, that the pumps may be on the right side of the car, that would make sense or a low fuel problem..

The other thing is that maybe you didnt get as sideways to the right as you did to the left

[JimmyHat]

Oh yeah, for the left and right side load differences. I think for the ITR and the Accord, that the pumps may be on the right side of the car, that would make sense or a low fuel problem..

The other thing is that maybe you didnt get as sideways to the right as you did to the left
I will have to go back to the Saturday Night Fun Archives to review the video to chek it out :haha:

[Slash]

I will have to go back to the Saturday Night Fun Archives to review the video to chek it out :haha:


Send me a PM with the link, its been a long time since ive seen tray sliding..... like... god a long time..

oh and BTW.

Major props for keeping a CLEAN arguement on here. I know we both took opposite sides, but THIS is the type of debate I like to see. We kept totally free of personal attacks, so I'm giving u some reputation points :)

Also, the whole more slide left from right, i think that couples with the pump location theory and also possible fuel supply issue.

[JimmyHat]

Yes, very good debate, thanks. Here is the video fom my site. www.w aruyoi.com/number1.mpg It has a few of us tray sliding, the rest is racing. you have to take the space out because TR blocks my site for some reason. I think its to keep competition down. This video has some footage of formula69 before the accident. :naughty:

The quality is low but im working on making it better.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

Here's an idea: stop trying to do 180's.

[ElSuperSpic]

Dude your theory about the fuel sliding to one side is so wrong. Its under pressure, not going to happen, especially when doing a 180, its not like the throttle would be wide open to use all the pressure. I usually bs around in my car, I do it in the rain in the parking lot and my car never shuts off. Your friends car is probably shutting off because he leaves it in gear while he does it. Its kinda like locking your brakes while in gear, by the time you come to a complete stop with the wheels locked, your car should be shut off.
Dani I would believe that the car is shutting off b/c of your auto drive train. Its probably a safety feature like someone stated earlier to protect the drive train. Your front wheels would end up going reverse while its in drive.

[dan]

lol automatic trans load cutoff or something.

my '93 camry did it when i e-brake drifted it YEARS ago hahaha.

[The Latin Spice]

my celica was able to do 180's... maybe its just a problem with the Tc and it being weak sauce.. :lmao: kidding haha

yes, most definitely a safety feature.

[ElSuperSpic]

Haha weak sauce thats a good one.