How come autocross didn't "catch on" like drifting?

[BeQuietAndDrive]

In recent years, I've watched drifting become elevated to insane heights in America. The drifting forum is constantly buzzing, and lots of people are jumping on to try it.

On the other hand, autocross has never really had a "surge" in popularity, but instead it's participants seem to have risen steadily over time. This makes me wonder why autcross is not the new hot thing to do that drifting is. Me being only 19, I'm sure I could have easily gone to that direction instead of being interested in auto-x like I am now.

[steve]

drifting is cheep

but i would rather grip

[kickslop]

Drifting is more "rock and roll". It's high speed and involves lots of smoking tires.

It came from Japan. So did Pokemon...

I wouldn't be fooled by the current state of drifting though. If you ask me, it's close to its peak as far as its history in the USA. I have nothing against it at all, respect the level skill involved, etc... but I give it another 2 years in the mainstream that surrounds it this year, max.

I will gladly eat my words if that turns out to be false.

Autocrossing isn't publicized. It has no marketing behind it whatsoever.

[Tits McGee]

Drifting is more "rock and roll". It's high speed and involves lots of smoking tires.

It came from Japan. So did Pokemon...

I wouldn't be fooled by the current state of drifting though. If you ask me, it's close to its peak as far as its history in the USA. I have nothing against it at all, respect the level skill involved, etc... but I give it another 2 years in the mainstream that surrounds it this year, max.

I will gladly eat my words if that turns out to be false.

Autocrossing isn't publicized. It has no marketing behind it whatsoever.

I concur.

Don't get me wrong though, "professional" drifting is very exciting and a blast to watch, and if I had a car that was easy to drift, I might try it a couple times. But as for drifting being cheaper.....not sure I agree with that very much.

[STSHatch]

I agree with yall. Drifting to me is like Syncronized Swimming, im sure its difficult, and it may be neat to watch, but its not really "swimming" like the 100 meter freestyle is. Ya know? Bassically drifting is dancing with a car, where as AutoX is a great way to get into racing. I think itll be dead in this country, along with the JDM CRAZEEE YO within 2 years. mark my words :)

[Mars_302]

drifting is more a spectator sport anyway. Thats the main reason, IMO.

[Muddy]

From what I heard, autox was much more popular in the 80s, with lots of corporate sponsorship. The SCCA fucked them all and they left.

[PseudoRealityX]

That is true, but it wasn't any bigger than it is now. Just more money being dumped into it.

[Loren]

drifting is more a spectator sport anyway. Thats the main reason, IMO.

There's your answer. Autox is fun to do, but not fun to watch. Drifting is fun to watch.

The downfall of drifting, in spite of its current popularity, is that the "kids" (teens and 20-somethings) who are so enamored with it won't pony up to pay entry fees to DO it. They're only willing ot pay their $5 entry fee to WATCH it. Grassroots level drifting doesn't appear to be thriving as a result.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

Another thing I find funny is that, many professional racers have gotten their start through autocross. However, I've never heard of anyone starting their career through drifting. It's usually the opposite way around, as people who have established motorsports careers (i.e JGTC) are the ones to enter drifting competitions.

I don't like to really come down on what someone else enjoys, as I have a few friends that do enjoy drifting. I do agree that within 2 years, drifting will be the underground thing it once was and no longer have the huge sponsorships and whatnot.


For what Leslie said, I don't agree with drifting being cheaper to do. Ever take a look at their forum? There are posts ALL the time about people breaking this control arm, that tie-rod, etc. And they wear out their tires on purpose!

[Laurentz]

Another thing I find funny is that, many professional racers have gotten their start through autocross. However, I've never heard of anyone starting their career through drifting. It's usually the opposite way around, as people who have established motorsports careers (i.e JGTC) are the ones to enter drifting competitions.

Wait.. are you talking about the United States or Japan? This doesn't make much sense.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

Either one. In Japan, Tsuichiya, Orido, Nobuteru..they all have or are participated in drifting competitions. However, none of them started their motorsports careers in drifting. Many race in the JGTC, as well.

Even here, guys like Rhys Millen started off through other forms of motorsport (rally, in his example) and now enter drifting competitions.

I do think drifting teaches car control, but mainly in one form :oversteer, and properly controlling it. I believe that autocross encompases all forms of car control, which is why I prefer it.

[Jordan Y.]

There's your answer. Autox is fun to do, but not fun to watch. Drifting is fun to watch.

The downfall of drifting, in spite of its current popularity, is that the "kids" (teens and 20-somethings) who are so enamored with it won't pony up to pay entry fees to DO it. They're only willing ot pay their $5 entry fee to WATCH it. Grassroots level drifting doesn't appear to be thriving as a result.

There's a hostile environment that doesn't welcome newcomers with open arms. The sport is by nature abusive to the car requiring more maintenance than other motorsports. The cost to spectate is 5 dollars but the cost to drift at a drift day is between 50 and 100 dollars, which is a lot of money for most of the young fans. The drift days only happen once a month at most. There's no ability to practice and learn on the track as a result, and the only other option is doing it on the street, which risks damage to the car in tight parking lots and attention from law enforcement. To drift you have to have a car with a specific drivetrain layout that many of the car enthusiasts' cars don't use. There are a lot of reasons why, but it's mostly that it's fun to watch and it attracts much bigger crowds of people who wouldn't participate in any motorsport, just for the spectacle of it.

[Chin]

Of course no one started in drifting, because its still new. Technically anyone who does on the limit driving will experiance cases of oversteer, so its really just praticing a certin type of car control loss. Where as autoX teachers you where that limit of adhessen is. Im sure in a few years a couple of people will say they got their start from street sliding down curvey roads.

[figment]

as for more popular, in what way. their are way more people doing auto-x on any given weekend then any drift event. if your willing to drive you can find an event almost any weekend. auto-x gets alot less attention in the media becouse drifting is the new thing.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

Of course no one started in drifting, because its still new.

...?

Last time I checked, drifting wasn't this magic thing invented two years ago. It's been happening ever since cars have existed.

[Leonard]

...?

Last time I checked, drifting wasn't this magic thing invented two years ago.

What are you talking about man... drifting is mystical and zenlike... you're just not enlightened enough to understand it...

[BeQuietAndDrive]

What are you talking about man... drifting is mystical and zenlike... you're just not enlightened enough to understand it...

haha..leanord, I know how you feel about drifting.

[Blueboost]

I'd much rather setup a 240 for autoX as apposed to drifting. Drifting may or may not be getting coverage in a few years, my guess is it will.

I'm still waiting for racing, on a track- with turns, to become popular. :nono:

[steve]

I'm still waiting for racing, on a track- with turns, to become popular. :nono:
this will never happen

the only way it will is if nascar some how just stopped

[kickslop]

I'd much rather setup a 240 for autoX as apposed to drifting. Drifting may or may not be getting coverage in a few years, my guess is it will.

I'm still waiting for racing, on a track- with turns, to become popular. :nono:
It is, you just live in the wrong country :)

[bob marley]

There are some people who are becoming pretty famous because of drifting rather than other motorsports. If I'm not mistaken, isn't Ken Gushi one of these? Granted, he's not as famous as others and US drifting competitions on a large scale are still somewhat new. I think there are a few others as well.

For the comments about "drifting is not racing" what do you all think about gymkhana? Not trying to cause trouble, just curious about your opinions.

Personally, I like all kinds of motorsports.

Johann

[steve]

gymkhana is the same as auto x just 50x harder

[PseudoRealityX]

There are some people who are becoming pretty famous because of drifting rather than other motorsports. If I'm not mistaken, isn't Ken Gushi one of these? Granted, he's not as famous as others and US drifting competitions on a large scale are still somewhat new. I think there are a few others as well.

For the comments about "drifting is not racing" what do you all think about gymkhana? Not trying to cause trouble, just curious about your opinions.

Personally, I like all kinds of motorsports.

Johann

I don't know for sure, but the feel that I get for Gymkhana is more like a novelty event for fun rather than a fierce competition. Do they hold region? National? events for gymkhana? Are there multiple classes and a complete structure and organization behind it?

[bob marley]

From what I gather, it originated as a novelty thing back int he mid 90's, mostly with people on military bases. Now, it is more competitive. It is pretty structured as they have classes based on cars/modifications. The competitions, though I don't think they are structured quite like scca, are there as well. They have local events as well as championship cups. I don't know if there is a unifying organization like scca for auto-x.

Gymkhana is similar to auto-x I guess, but the actual driving style in order to finish with a quick time is very different.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

There is an All Japan Gymkhana Championship. They have different classes and whatnot for various cars. I'm not sure how organized everything is, and if there are "regional" championships and whatnot.

[bob marley]

There is an All Japan Gymkhana Championship. They have different classes and whatnot for various cars. I'm not sure how organized everything is, and if there are "regional" championships and whatnot.

Thanks, that was the championship I was was thinking of. I forgot the name though.

[chi town brat]

I agree with a lot that has been said.

I like to spectate at drift events. I have been out drifting and the bug didn't bit me. Its fun to watch, it looks like a lot of coordination inside the car, and the smoking tires is an attention getter at the events. Hatchi Bill is great to watch.

Autocross from my experience has older participants. You can really learn a lot from these men and women. Plus I love watching cars lift and set thru the course. The S2000 has my <3 when it comes to this.

Driving the autocross course is a blast, it is very challenging and has really helped me learn some of the limits of my car which I only thought I knew after nearly 15 years of driving him. I haven't even really begun to push that car yet.

The abilities I've learned out there have now saved me from two accidents because I knew my car could handle what I needed to avoid the jackasses out there.

Another reason might be because at a drift event you don't have to work the course. :lol: ;)

[Matt Vassallo]

Nobuteru..they all have or are participated in drifting competitions. However, none of them started their motorsports careers in drifting. Many race in the JGTC, as well.


actually taniguchi nobuteru did start drifting first. ika ten in his corolla actually. he has since moved on to doing JGTC and what not.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

actually taniguchi nobuteru did start drifting first. ika ten in his corolla actually. he has since moved on to doing JGTC and what not.

really? that's pretty cool..you learn something new evey day.

I still think drifting is a good way to learn car control. I don't see it as being a bad thing. I think some kids elevate it to heights which I think is a tad ridiculous, but there are plenty of guys (like Matt) who are level headed and represent drifting well.

[Cronic]

I think drifting caught on so well because of the way it makes you feel as you're doing it. It's a little different then auto-x mentally. It's the whole, being in control while out of control. IE controled sliding. I guess it's difficult to explain.

[PseudoRealityX]

If you're really driving at 10/10ths autocrossing, it feels similar.

[mrf582]

autoxing takes skill. drifting takes skill. autoxing WHILE drifting and not hitting cones takes even more skill. of course, DeLand is a great place to drift since 85% of the course is a rallyX.

[infinite_redline]

I'll take a 40 second autoX run over a 40 second drift run anyday. Bottom line, stuff gets borken in drifting. RARELY do you see/hear reports of people getting injured, or cars getting destroyed because of autoX. Yeah, both are hard on cars, but for my money, it's autoX. I'd rather keep pumping the money into brakes, clutches, r-compounds, and entry fees, than into frame repairs, body kits, air dams, wings, suspension replacement... etc.

[Jreyenga]

turning takes skill, passing takes skill, turning WHILE passing and not hitting an event site gate takes even more skill. Of course, Gainesville is a great place to do this since 85% of the entrances have gates

[Leonard]

turning takes skill, passing takes skill, turning WHILE passing and not hitting an event site gate takes even more skill. Of course, Gainesville is a great place to do this since 85% of the entrances have gates


bwahahahhahahaahahhhahah that's fucking great. You're my new hero, Jim.

[nunyo]

Pretty awesome for a first ever post.

[Jreyenga]

I swear I've posted here before... dunno what's up, I'll return to lurking now

[_Charles_]

My turn....

I came from Auto-X'ing (since 1992), and now I pretty much just drift.

Misconception #1: Auto-X is more expensive than Drifting.
FALSE. Drifting is 20x's more expensive. Entry for 1 day at Ocala is $90. If you get good, you'll waste 2 new tires in 1 day (At a private event in Ocala, I wasted 4 new rear tires in one day....lot's of track time though).

Misconception #2: Drifting 'damages' cars.
FALSE. I've attended 6 Drift events so far, and I the only thing that I've HAD to replace is TC Rods Bushings....but it's a 125k mile chassis, and they were already going bad and they are common to fail.

Misconception #3: Hitting things (like walls) is normal in Drifting
PARTIALLY TRUE. At a grassroots level, a safe event is a safe event. There have been 4 events in Ocala, and I know of 2 'incidents'. Both involving drivers going off-course. 1 driver lost a rear sway bar, and another cracked a radiator. Considering the 'style' of driving, this speaks for itself.

Misconception #4: Drifting will die down in a year or 2.
FALSE. Hello, tractor pulls and swamp buggy races are still here, aren't they? I think that the 2006 season will start to pull a new crowd to drifting. Formula D (US Drifting Series) is starting to change the standard view of drifting, that of "you need a Nissan 240sx or Toyota Corolla to Drift." This year alone, several 2005 Mustang's have been added, and let's not forget the 'El Camino'. In 2006, expect to see Ryan Hampton (FD Driver) sporting a 1969 Camaro <---1969! I think this alone will draw a different crowd.

Misconception #5: 'Drifting isn't hard', or 'Drifting isn't Racing', or 'Drifting isn't new'
FALSE, SEMI-TRUE, FALSE.
#1 Drifting isn't hard: All forms of motorsports are Hard, and they all have there own unique challenges. You have to first understand what drifting is before you can make a judgement, and most people don't understand the concepts. Without going into too much details, 'POwer-sliding' and 'Fishtailing' IS NOT DRIFTING
#2 Drifitng isn't Racing: Depends on your definition of racing. Drifting is without a doubt a Motorsport though.
#3 Drifting isn't new: Actually, yes, it is. It's the first new motorsport to come to the USA since the 50's or 60's. It just needs acceptance, which will take time.

Now for my personal views. I like driving. My only competition is myself. I have auto-x'ed countless times, but I only did it becuase I enjoyed it....not for the competition. I Drift for the same reasons.

In Auto-X, you are taught to push the car to the edge of control, but not go over. You also learn the 'Racing Line', but in Drift, you learn that the 'EDGE' you learned in Auto-X is not actually the edge of control, but that the car can be pushed further, much further. Also, while drifting, you also learn that the DRIFT LINE is not always the same as the RACING LINE, and you learn to put more trust in yourself and your abilities to control the car more than you do in Auto-X.

I do not expect everybody to 'accept' my decision to Drift. I do not expect you to watch, or try it yourself. I have found Drifting to be a great oppurtunity to constantly challange myself to a new level and this is why I do it.

Chances are, when we are all old and grey, our kids will be looking back at this conversation and laugh....because DRIFTING will either die out and they will never understand it, or because it will become widely accepted and they will wonder how somebody could ever critique it the way some do.

I say, 'Remain open minded to new ideas, new challanges, and new concepts'
Charles

[mrf582]

turning takes skill, passing takes skill, turning WHILE passing and not hitting an event site gate takes even more skill. Of course, Gainesville is a great place to do this since 85% of the entrances have gates

excellent. that was pretty clever. however, it helps to know the full story so you can be even more clever.

hey, at least you've got leonard as your personal minion now.

[Loren]

I considered locking this after RiceRocket's post because it seemed like a good note to close on. All sides have been presented and the question has been answered as best it can be.

I'm not letting this thread turn into another off-topic flame war.