440cc -Vs- 540cc Injectors: MR2

[Love Doctor]

My 2nd gen MR2 T comes with the 440cc injectors and I believe that the fuel limit is around 275 rwhp. One of the differences from the 2 gen (US Spec) and 3rd gen (Jap Spec) is that they use the 540cc injectors along with the CT20b Turbo.

I haven't yet installed my CT20b, but when I do... I'm sure passing 275 rwhp will be easy. However, to be on the safe side... I should probrably get a hold of the 3 gen 540cc injectors.

My question is, how far can the 3rd gen injectors take you safely? Maybe 320 rwhp?? :dunno:

Also, does anyone know if theres a difference between the 2nd gen and 3rd gen fuel pump thats located inside of the gas tank? You know why I'm asking... :-D

PEACE-

[Slash]

riddlemr2 is running around 320ish whp on the stock gen 3's.

Chances are however you wont make more than 275whp.. especially if your tuning with an Safc. The GEN2 motors have really terrible flow in the heads and manifolds next to the gen 3, an MR2Driver isnt even over 300.

Most CT20B cars i see on Gen 2 motors are 240-260whp..

[gotime242]

yeah, i would keep the 440's for what you are intending on doing for two reasons, 1) as slash mentioned your really not going to *easily max them out with the ct20b, and 2) if you move up to the 540/550 then you are going to need to worry about much more as far as engine management. An safc alone wont do the trick, you would have to combine it with an afpr or something to get it to work well with the gen II, or spend a ton on a good stand alone.

[Mike431635]

Here is some good info pertaining to this subject taken from the Celicatech forums, it's probably worth your time to read over it:

http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1892

[Love Doctor]

Good thread thanks.

Has anyone tried accel injectors (540cc)?

PEACE-

[Love Doctor]

Has anyone actually used Supra TT injectors? Shouldnt these injectors simply drop into our 91-95 2gen MR2 T with no modifications necessary? :naughty:

I've herd this is true, but has anyone here actually done so? :dunno:

PEACE-

[williamb82]

if your stock injectors are side feed yes. if they are top feed, no. i know 1st gen 3sgte's were top feed and 3rd gen 3sgte's were side feed. not sure about 2nd gen. if you end up needing top feed injectors i have a set of top feed 550's f/s in the f/s section.
william

[Love Doctor]

How much do you want for your injectors? Are they clean?

PEACE-

[Cronic]

440cc injectors are good for about 300whp.
SAFC will tune up to 660cc injectors on your motor. You do not need a FPR.
Get a better turbo.

[Love Doctor]

My goal is 360hp total. I think I can hit this using my CT20B (Bigger than the stock CT26 turbo).

But I want to be safe with some clean flowing bigger injectors. Some one sell me some!

PEACE-

[Slash]

Not possible Love Doctor, you'll have problems making 360hp at the crank much less at the wheels. The CT20B just CANNOT push that sort of air. Sure its bigger and better than the CT26, but it is NO T3/T4

Also your on a gen2 engine.

just think of this. Daves Gen3 car with 550cc injectors, fpr, upgraded intercooler, T3-T4 50 trim... and blah blah blah.. makes like 320ish whp..

I highly doubt you will break 300 CRANK horsepower on a gen 2 with a CT20b. You'll prob end up at 270whp with a standalone and 240-260ish without (if your lucky)

[MR2driver]

I highly doubt you will break 300 CRANK horsepower on a gen 2 with a CT20b. You'll prob end up at 270whp with a standalone and 240-260ish without (if your lucky)

This here is true. If you are planning on 360whp on your stock engine, you will need an SC61, huge intercooler, 660cc injectors and a stand alone.

the supra 550cc injectors drop right in. But the rail doesn't flow enough to make it worth while.

[Love Doctor]

You guys are raining on my parade. :(

What do I have to do to get my gen2 into the 11sec? Also, I dont want to go with one of those stand-a-lone systems ($ 2,000). If I have to, I will buy a bigger Turbo and sell my CT20B. Maybe I overshot my HP requirements, I just want to get into the 11sec! HELP

PEACE-

[williamb82]

i am asking $100 for them. no, i havent had them cleaned, but they do work.

[Slash]

You guys are raining on my parade. :(

What do I have to do to get my gen2 into the 11sec? Also, I dont want to go with one of those stand-a-lone systems ($ 2,000). If I have to, I will buy a bigger Turbo and sell my CT20B. Maybe I overshot my HP requirements, I just want to get into the 11sec! HELP

PEACE-


We are breaking the hard truth to you.. You WILL need a standalone to break into the 11's on a gen2, you will need huge injectors, you will need LOTS of stuff.

You should be trying to get a high 12... thats a reasonable goal for a stock gen2 engine. Aka MR2Drivers 12.74 or whatever he made back then. Its still the record I believe for a gen2 engine and stock turbo.. With the CT 20b and some absolutely amazing driving you might make a 12.5

[Love Doctor]

:mad:

PEACE-

[MR2driver]

You should be trying to get a high 12... thats a reasonable goal for a stock gen2 engine. Aka MR2Drivers 12.74 or whatever he made back then. Its still the record I believe for a gen2 engine and stock turbo.. With the CT 20b and some absolutely amazing driving you might make a 12.5

That's not true, he can strip it down to a shell and breaking system and get into the 11's hahahahaha

Sure proof formula for 11's with no bs.

SC61 turbocharger, custom or greddy exhaust manifold, huge intercooler, 660cc injectors, rail, walbro 255 high flow pump, and a stand alone.

SC61 around $1k
greddy manny $400-800
wastegate $300
trunk mount ic kit $800
injectors $350
rail $300
walbro $125
stand alone $2k + install
dyno tuning $500

you can substitute the SC61 for a SM50 ($800) the manny for a bracket ($200) and then get drag radials ($300) to just barely get into the 11s.

[Slash]

:mad:

PEACE-


Why get mad at us over the truth? Any mr2 board you go to will give you the information we have provided here.

[Love Doctor]

Thanks for all the info,

I'm not mad at anyone here, no way.... just disappointed that the performance road for a 2 gen MR2 seems to end around the 12.7 1/4 with the here and there bolt on and general tickering...

Well, I'm going to try anyways and see if I can break that record. I'm going to the track tomorrow in Lakeland and see my starting point.

This time around I will be running:

CT26 @ 15lbs
HKS filter
Profec B II
2.75+ Exhaust
Stock 15" rims
Redline MT90 Gear lube

Any guesses as to what I should be running now if I want to keep in good pace of the 12.7sec record? :)

PEACE-

[Slash]

12.7 is faster than you think. Not a lot of cars go 12.7 from the factory. I'm pretty sure you'll be very impressed with those.

With your setup listed, i'm thinking a low 13. MR2 driver is one of the most amazing drag racers ive had the pleasure to know, he launches like none other with the SW20 chassis, part of the reason he had the record was that he was getting rock bottom 60' times. Most drivers will have difficulty getting into the 12 range. MR2Driver also had the G-Force ECU (U have SAFC so about the same there) and maybe some other mods, you'd have to ask him.

[gotime242]

Has anyone actually used Supra TT injectors? Shouldnt these injectors simply drop into our 91-95 2gen MR2 T with no modifications necessary? :naughty:

I've herd this is true, but has anyone here actually done so? :dunno:

PEACE-


-Yes, i am on supra TT injectors right now. They drop straight in, but as mrdriver mentioned, i had to upgrade the fuel rail as well. You "can" use the stock fuel rail with them...but i wouldnt want to test the stock rail with bigger injectors over 300rwhp or so, due to pressure drop on certain injectors.


440cc injectors are good for about 300whp.
SAFC will tune up to 660cc injectors on your motor. You do not need a FPR.
Get a better turbo.

-You do need a fpr with the gen II ecu. Unless you plan on making rediclously small adjustments. If the ecu finds out that fuel is being pulled by a piggyback, it will advance the timming. So say do you throw a safc on there...you will most likely lean it out a whole lot..and there goes the ignition advance, and poof...there goes your engine. What you have to do with the gen II's is use the afpr to LOWER the fuel pressure, then come back and use the safc to ADD fuel in. This way you get around it advancing the timming on you. No mr2 people have really ever tried to use over 550 cc injectors with an safc setup though.

..I highly doubt you will break 300 CRANK horsepower on a gen 2 with a CT20b. You'll prob end up at 270whp with a standalone and 240-260ish without (if your lucky)

- Our mr2s loss about 15-20% (more closer to 20% usually). Usually stock gen II's will dyno right around 160rwhp, and with 200 crank hp stock, that usually just about 20%. So he could definetly get 300 crank hp, because all here would need there is 240rwhp (at 20%, and even just 255rwhp @ 15%). My mr2 was doing 245-250*ish* to the wheels with just my cheap ebay intake, ct20b at like 17/18 psi, and just a open downpipe. Stock everything else (fuel/ecu/intercooler) So i imagine with a decent intercooler and maybe a could other little things here and there...it coudl of seen better.



Love Doctor- I say dont go crazy for now and start shooting for 11's right away. Take your time and enjoy the road along the way. A mid-12 second car is impressive to be driving around everyday on the streets. A select few..mayb even only ONE has touched 11's without a stand alone, and that was jecklandhyde on the mr2 boards, and his car is a freak. It shoudl of died by now..but whatever, plus hes a good driver, and set the rest of the car up well too.

But the bottom line is for any kind of real power you are going to need a stand alone. The 550's CAN get you into the 11's (again, there are a number who have done it), but you need the rest of the fuel system built to really max those 550's out (which with everything well-done (pump/rail/fpr) the limit is right around 360rwhp. I would say pick up a nice turbo kit (like the ko racing t3/t4 kit) or maybe something from atsracing, get some fuel on it, get a stand alone, and do ot properly the first time, so you dont have to save for an engine rebuild. Power is expensive.

Or, just put a bad-ass fuel pump in there and run a 150 shot of nitrous. :tard: :tard:


I personally am working to get into the 11's right now. Im doing 12.7's BUT with a F*ed up tune, and on about 16.5 psi on my tdo6 20g. Lol, im on a walbro/afpr/upgraded fuel rail/and 550 cc injectors all on the STOCK ECU (lmao) i dont even want to know my a/f ratio. I have to replace my plugs everyother month just to keep the car running.

My stand alone is all setup now though (SDR cost me 800 dollars by the way), and im going to see if i can have xat tune it this week or maybe weekend. So, when i plug the sdr back in (all sensors and everythign are connected, i just had a software issue that i just worked out, but while i was doing that i had to run around on the stock ecu because it wouldnt let me upload the basemap)..anyway, when i put that back it, ill seafoam the shit outa my engine (to get rid of all the buildup) and go have it tuned on about 19psi (os so, maybe 20 is things looks good), and see what i can do from there. My car does have a good bit of weight reduction though (approx 230lbs) so that will help me at the track)

Alright, thats my input. :)

[Mister2]

Hey what's up dylan,
This is robby that guy who recorded you and the viper going at it.
My friends with there supras and there friend are havig a big group dyno day at xat on june 4th for 30$, the only bad part is that you only get two runs with a wide band. That's not to good for tuning.
That would be really cool to see some mr2 dyno. I think i mite, just to get a base map before i put my t3/t4 on and everything else.
So let me know.

[gotime242]

Hey whats up man. Thanks for the heads up, i might be interested in that, but ill see in a week or so what my plans are. Also it depends on if im tuned or not yet, right now the more i drive the more spark plugs i go through, i need to get tuned before i waste another set, lol. I dont think my mr2 would match up to some supra #'s but maybe for fun, yeah ill def let you know.

[Mister2]

That would be bad ass.
Try to make it.
I watched some guy dyno his 240 that new you. Acually i think it was his friend. He said he grew up with you. He's darker with long hair and drives a civic si, really cool guy tho.

[MR2driver]

I predict a 14.0 flat if you can get a 2.0 60' or better. You still have the stock cat, stock clutch and street tires. Plus your car is full weight. If you get a faster time then 14.0, I will congratulate you, but to do it, you will need 1.8 60' for sure. My recommendation would be to launch high in the rpms, around 5500, let the clutch out slow, let the tires spin just a little. If they spin too much, just push the accelerater less until it grabs. Good luck!

I ran a 12.90 on a usdm gen 2 with 54 trim ct26, act stage 1 clutch, intake, gutted cat, stock exhaust, blitz ebc @16psi, and gforce ecu. I had a 1.82 60' and trapped 106. I estimate about 235-240rwhp. This was done in a 93 n/a ttop chassis. Only weight reduction was removal of spare tire.

Dylan is correct about the safc, it is useless on a gen 2 without the fpr or vpc. Also, when using this device, any small leak of air through an intercooler hose while going down the track and bye bye engine. Air is metered at the intake, and can be lost anywhere in the intercooler tract if you have worn hoses or pipes. This is why a stand alone is so necessary for a Gen 2.

11.8 was run on a ct20b, by Brian Moore. He had a completely built Gen 2, all the piggy backs, fat drag radials, dyno tuned to around 320rwhp, 91 n/a chassis. low 1.7 60'. Basically a perfect run down the track, trapped 115 mph.

[Mister2]

Sorry for going off topic.

[Love Doctor]

Will open another post later for Results. Thanks again for all of your input guys. Wish me luck.

//END POST HERE

PEACE-

[gotime242]

That would be bad ass.
Try to make it.
I watched some guy dyno his 240 that new you. Acually i think it was his friend. He said he grew up with you. He's darker with long hair and drives a civic si, really cool guy tho.

hmm...was his name "trini" by any chance?

Other than that i dont know who it could be..didnt get the name by any chance did you? Huh..small world

[Mister2]

I can't recall his name, I just saw him at a supra meet last week, he came with some homeboys if you now what i mean.