YOUR suspension geometry setup/discussion

[TNathe]

Saw a similar post over on Zilvia so I wanted to ask. What is YOUR suspension setup? Front and Rear (Toe in/toe out, camber +/-, sway bars) chassis reinforcement? Front/Rear tire pressures. When you made a change/addition what effects did you notice if any at all. I also came across this link for setting up you car to promote/demote oversteer. http://www.autornd.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=SUSPENSIONTUNE

I would think one would want to promote as much oversteer as possible when on the track but someone mentioned that its not necessarily true because when you begin to slide it becomes more difficult to keep from spinning out. Those who know what are your thoughts?

~Tyler

[REY]

i don't want to tell you cause then you'll duplicate my setup and then I won't be cool anymore and therefore I will put a dumb sarcastic comment instead that way the coolness of mine stays chillin........................................... .................
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J/K That is the reply I usually get when I ask that question .......

I'd like to know also to learn the tricks of the trade too !!!

[TNathe]

Well what works for one person may/may not work for another. Like those with lots of power may like the understeer so that when the car comes around under power its easier to control or vice versa. Cause after my engine gets put in Im gonna be slowly buying tunable suspension parts to play around with.

[Anthony Macaluso]

I'll tell you all what I run...

Up front: KYB Buzz Spec struts, GC coilovers (450lbs/in), SPL tension rods, Tein inner/outer tie rods, Tein Camber plates, ebay strut tower bar, Suspension Technique sway bar, Nismo Power brace, and whiteline LCA bushings. My struts are set at full stiff on drift days. My camber is set to full negative (roughly -2.7 degrees), my toe is 0, and my caster...hmph, I forgot. Currently I'm running AVS ES100's 215/45/17 mounted on 17x8" 5zigen FN01RC's at 36psi (cold).



Out back: KYB Buzz Spec struts, GC coilovers (350lbs/in), SPL RUCAs, SPL Traction rods, Hicas lock bar, SPL aluminum subframe spacers, Suspension Technique sway bar, ebay strut tower bar, whiteline RLCA bushings, and a S15 HLSD. On drift days the rear struts are set 1/2-way. I take whatever I can get in tires, but at the last DDay I was running 215/45/17" Falken ST115's on my 17x8" G35 wheels w/ around 38psi (cold). Alignment in the rear is -1.25 degrees of camber, as close to a 0 toe as I could get (I think it's about a .15 degree or less toe in).



I'm always trying new things with different results though...I'd say just experiment and figure out what you like best. And no, my car is not an oversteer machine...I try to make it handle as neutral as possible.

[dudocius240sx]

just go with what you like and try lots of set ups, at DDay i was running my rear tires at 1/2" toe out, and i had my Megan Coilovers set camber=2 degrees negative up front and -1.20-25 dont know yet on rear. Dampening was at 10 on front and 12 on rear, the car felt like it had a constant war against understeer, it actually felt like it was in love with oversteer hence why i spinned out so much, even Tony schulz commented of how easy my car was drifting. later on this week when i go practice i am going to try to set my dampening a bit lower (stiffer) and toe in the front just by a bit.

[_Charles_]

Here's my current setup:
Front Camber: -2
Front toe: 0
Front Caster: +7

Rear Camber: -1
Rear toe: 0

Suspension upgrades=
BAttle Version TC Rods
Battle Version RUCA's
GAB Coilovers
That's it.

Also, I ran bald tires in the morning, and it sucked. I had new tires mounted during lunch....much better. Tony Shultz drove the car with teh new tires and commented on 'how this car was one of a few that actually scare him'. For him, the car rotates way too easy. Oh well.

Charles

[TNathe]

anyone just ever go out one day and mess with suspension settings? Like go around this corner at this speed with this setting then mimic the same conditions with different settings?

[dudocius240sx]

Thats what i am plannign to do this upcoming weekend, at DDay the setting i was running induced too much oversteer, now i want to look for a balance between understeer and oversteer. so I am going to go practice and mess around with my suspension to see what do i get out of it.

[teddy]

Suspension Upgrades:
Front: Tein HE Coilovers (8k springs), SPL Tension Rods, Tein Inner/Outer Tie Rods, Cusco STB, Jspec.com Front Ladder Bar

Rear:
Tein HE Coilovers (6k springs), SPL Pro RUCA's, SPL Bumplink, SPL Toe Rods, Cusco Rear STB w/ Triangle Brace, Jspec.com Rear Ladder Bar

Tires:
Front = Kumho Ecsta 712's (40psi cold daily driving, 35psi cold drift days). 40psi gives MUCH more of a tighter feel driving, I love it for those curvy roads. Can really feel a difference between 35psi and 40psi up front. Although 35psi gives tons less understeer. My old set were Yoko ES100's and I loved them. Less of a difference between the tire pressures though.

Rear = Kumho Ecsta 711's (40psi cold daily driving + drift days). I love these tires w/ the KA. Break loose easy and very predictable, although if I had more power or higher entry speeds turns I'd want something that grips better. Never had them chunk on me yet and good wear even pass the wear bar until you hit the belts.

CURRENT SETUP -
Front:
Caster = +7.5
Camber = =2.5
Toe = 0
Wheels = 15x7" +0 (205/50 tires)

Rear:
Camber = -2.75 (wheel/tire fitment issues)
Toe = 0
Wheels = 15x7.5" -5 (205/50 tires)

OLD SETUP -
Front:
Caster = +8
Camber = -2
Toe = 0
Wheels = 15x7" +0 (205/50 tires)

Rear:
Camber = -1.5
Toe = 0
Wheels = 15x7" +0 (205/50 tires)

[teddy]

anyone just ever go out one day and mess with suspension settings? Like go around this corner at this speed with this setting then mimic the same conditions with different settings?

As in dampening settings?

Yeah.

Alignment settings?

No. I do too much daily/highway driving to be getting alignments every few weeks.

[marksaccord95]

suspension that will be on the SR86

front: T3 camber plates with roller bearing upgrade
GC coilovers 8 kg/mm
MR2 short strokes
1.8" shortened strut bodies
possible custom adjustable lower control arms

rear: T3 rear coilover conversion, elimating the leaf springs, 6.5kg/mm
T3 panhard and MAYBE 4 link

alignment will be:
0 toe
0 caster
-3.5 degrees camber

[hachibill]

hahahahahahahahahahahahah, if only yo could see how f-cked up my cars aligment is. i just compensate for the car, it doesn't matter what the aligment is like. i have 2.5 degree's of camber in the back and both tires are towed in like crazy. the front is alittle better. i neeed all the adjustable arms for the rear still and new bushings.

FRONT:
megan racing coilovers (supplied by XAT)
random used T/C rods and custom T/C rod brace
tein tie rods
strut tower brace
polly steering rack bushings
Full 6 point roll cage (supplied by XAT)

REAR:
megan racing coil overs
subframe spacers
HICAS rear sway bar


still need front and rear lower control arms.

[allh0pelost]

it appears that the general principle of oversteer/understeer is "soft will grip, stiff will slip." so to cancel out the general understeer of the s13 one would think of having the rear spring rate higher than the front. stiffer rear sway bars, and stiffer dampers in the rear.

i would want to create some sort of neutral balance or a very slight amount of oversteer on my car, but i'm not speaking on personal experience, just what i know. i'll have to wait til i can afford some nice coilovers. til then i'll be riding on STOCK!

[2Valve]

Stock with blown struts, gimme gimme gimme some good stufffss!! i need it

[aphxero]

I'm not sure if my settings apply since I drive an ae86 but. I've found a comfortable setiing to drive around and drift and lots of it has to do with the TIRE SELECTION. Every time I change tires it drastically affects my handling and I either adapt or change setting.

With such a light car (2231 with me in it!) I tune it for heavy understeer at low speed. Lately I've been drifting in the 40-60 mph range so the car starts to balance out when it gets faster. This is more fun to drift and safer driving on the highway.

Here's my alignment settings:
Toe: 0.3 degrees out
Camber: 2.88 degrees negative
Castor: +1.6 degrees

The rear is all 0.00 since I have a solid axle.

Anyhow, when I slow down or combo it's a different challenge to drift. And I have the most fun this way. I think the best thing to do at first is have a good neutral alignment and decent tires. being familiar with my car has helped me more than any suspension upgrades.

With that said here's my setup:

Tires: Front toyo 600f 195/50/15 36 psi, rear falken zeix 502 same size 40psi. Wheels are 15x7.5

front susp: Tein camber plates, battleversion tension rods, 40mm cut strut case with 6.25 kg/mm QA1 coilover, 4 way adjust short stroke AGX shock, T3 RCA.

rear susp: T3 lateral rod, TRD japan spring 4.7 kg/mm, 8 way adjust short stroke AGX shock, Ctune traction bracket.

I really wanna mention that I replaced all the bushing in the car with urethane and got new ball joints. This made my car feel 1000x more responsive. I think this shoudl be the first upgrade especially for those of us with older cars and worn out bushings. I also kept my stock sway bars but getting wider wheels has the same effect as stiffening them :) I've been thinking about getting adjustable ones but I don't really see a need for it yet.

Something simple like that will change your car completely. I've driven an s13 with a loose subframe from having worn bushings. It wasnt fun at all compared to an s13 with fresh bushings.

I hope this has helped someone. Sorry for the long post.

[hachibill]

the only time you need spot on alignhment settings is when you auto-x or road race. its not that important in drifting.

[ryojikaji143]

the only time you need spot on alignhment settings is when you auto-x or road race. its not that important in drifting.

Agreed, my alignment is always changing because I am always bouncing off of curbs. Too expensive to do all the time and it doesn't make a big difference anyway.

[_Charles_]

the only time you need spot on alignhment settings is when you auto-x or road race. its not that important in drifting.

and here is where I disagree with you. MY car previously (before alignment) handled ALOT differently before the newest 'alignment'. At the 'current' settings, I have found the car a little hard to handle. Ask Tony Shultz how my car handles...

now, If I change the numbers, the handling will change, and so will the drift (or the ability). So yes, alignments DO HELP.

and bill, I can here you right now.... "I would have no problem drifting your car charles...". You are probably 100% correct, you could do it, but finding the correct geometry for your driving style will only make it that much easier and that much better.

Charles

[marksaccord95]

the only time you need spot on alignhment settings is when you auto-x or road race. its not that important in drifting.

agreed, hell i never even aligned the white corolla when i owned it, that car had maybe -1 MAX camber

[_Charles_]

okay...define 'alignment'. Too me, alignment is nothing more than a set of setting's. Every car has 'settings', therefore EVERY car is 'aligned'. Whether or not the alignment settings are within spec is another question altogether, because who's specs are you using? The factories, or your own set?

So Bill and MArk....your cars have 'alignments', even though you may not want to admit it. Hell, listen to yourselves...

i just compensate for the car, it doesn't matter what the aligment is like.

imagine if you spent less time 'compensating'......

[paul kersey]

bills just saying it doesnt have to be dead on accurate at some number.
but im sure he appreciates the tips.

[Matt Vassallo]

ive found toe makes biggere differences in drifting and handling than camber

camber just helps you with evenly wearing out the tires

toe can dramatically change how violent or calm the car snaps out

[satanshatch]

Nomuken = 3 Degrees of toe from what I've been told. Theory on why his tires also smoke so much. :dunno: Fact or Myth ?

[paul kersey]

more toe will make more smoke.
but go through tires wayyyy faster.

[paul kersey]

also, three degrees of toe is a ton.
on a normal street car, if you toed each front or rear tire out to 3 degrees, the tire would be destroyed in about 1 day of normal driving.

[_Charles_]

Nomuken = 3 Degrees of toe from what I've been told. Theory on why his tires also smoke so much. :dunno: Fact or Myth ?

MYTH. You should read the 'article', but I'm not allowed to share it, but it's right. I proved it at the Private event.