Overheating cure?

[_Charles_]

I'm posting this in the Drift forum, because alot of us experienced this issue on saturday.

Although I loved the Advanced group 'hot lapping', after 3 runs, my car was pegged 'Hot'. I had to skip my fourth run. I have a stock Blacktop, running stock boost, with a JDM S13 radiator and Taurus SHO fan.

After teh car cooled, I had no further symptoms. The drive home was flawless.

I expect that hot-lapping will occur in July. What should I look at upgrading to handle the overheating issue?

Charles

[Matt Vassallo]

well, it's an issue that many many s13's face.

that's why we have the enjuku racing d-spec cooling system.. it's alot of money, but the car's wont overheat after even 8 laps in a complete row @ redline!

[Mars_302]

Id try some Water Wetter, and a bigger fan. have the fan on a switch so you can run low side for normal driving, flip it to the high side for drifting. A lincolm Mark VIII fan is awesome and pulls a whopping 5000 cfm of air. The down side is, it will kill your charging system unless there is an alternator upgrade for 240s

[TNathe]

Try engine ice as well? What radiator do you have? I think its rediculous that a car would overheat after running 4 laps at OGP. If it can sit in rush hour traffic on a 100 degree day for over an hour no reason it shouldnt be able to run a few laps around the track with decent airflow. :dunno:

[MaxType 240]

Water Wetter and runing the car w/ the heat running (vented from outside) are your cheap options.

Jesse

[steve]

single fan?

[Slash]

This is why there are no autocrosses in the summer... Drifting should also go on pause until the temps subside.

[Hoonta]

This is why there are no autocrosses in the summer... Drifting should also go on pause until the temps subside.

Or at least have some night events. (although it can still be 80degrees on a Florida summer night).

Speaking of weather though.. i'm really curious how events will be handeled with the summer rains.

[sidehappyside]

cut a hole in your hood, bumper, fenders, roof, hatch/trunk. Get one of those new intakes that look like a front mount for colder air=happy engine. Roof scoops help a lot with the cooling of air it recieves from the roof that trys to get away from the top, you want to get all the air around you, don't let that fucker get away. or do the sleepy eyes to allow air flow into the engine bay I heard that one somwhere. They all are wonderful! Don't forget to hook up a little mini fan inside so the driver stays nice and cool. good luck!("\(^_^)/")

[MaxType 240]

Or at least have some night events. (although it can still be 80degrees on a Florida summer night).

Speaking of weather though.. i'm really curious how events will be handeled with the summer rains.

Dude, he's lying. There's a ton of auto-x in the summer. Only 1-3 240s ever show up though from the Tampa area. Pretty sad. Less abuse on cars and you learn how to drive and it's competition against others/yourself. I'll never understand drifters :)

Regarding non-drastic cooling mods, you can always remove your headlights and duct some piping to needed areas.

Jesse

[Chin]

I have a larger radiator, with fal fans and im not cooling as good as I feel I should. The thing that made the biggest difference was ducting work I did with some thing aluminum. Makes all the difference in the world if you can direct all or most all of the air into the radiator. I might move my IC to do a Vmount kinda of style air induction system, but the ac condensor will still be in the radiator support.

[viper]

did you consider CO2 cooling system? I know the name brand ones are little pricey but you can make a homedepot one for less than 100$. talk to some paintballers they might help.

[MaxType 240]

Another close-to-free good practice: go to Home Depot's A/C & Filter section. Buy the spray that cleans outdoor A/C condensors tubes/fins. I use it quarterly to keep my IC, radiator and A/C condensor free from crud. I think XAT used to offer some professional strength A/C cond. cleaner but the home depot stuff is good for me. Perhaps brake/carb cleaner is just as effective, not sure.

Enthalpy works in HVAC systems, he probably knows something better.

Jesse

[The Kyle]

Or at least have some night events. (although it can still be 80degrees on a Florida summer night).

Speaking of weather though.. i'm really curious how events will be handeled with the summer rains.


Simple..if it rains...who cares? ;)

If its just your average summer shower, the only thing that changes is its easier to slide...but also easier to lose it and go offtrack, so gotta be more careful. Now...if its thundering and lightning, then I'll yell at everybody to get the F off the track and we'll all go inside and hang out for a while till the crazyness subsides.

[Hoonta]

awesome ;)

I think an event in the rain would be cool.. as long as it wasn't the 2ft/hr summer rain.

[cyanide]

back on topic...

C&R's new dual pass radiator?

[paul kersey]

i seriously cannot believe how many posts it took for someone to suggest a bigger radiator.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
do you think a single row stock radiator was made for hot lapping?
no. its not.

[paul kersey]

also, weak coolant, or more of a water to coolant ratio.
either way, get a bigger radiator, a block off plate.
and look at ways air could be escaping and not going through the radiator.
and address those issues.
and change to a earlier opening thermostat.

is your fan wired to come on with the ignition, or is it thermostaticly switched?

[Matt Vassallo]

we don't have overheating issues :)

[paul kersey]

running the same setup as the enjuku cars would be a ridiculous squandering of money in my opinion.

[Matt Vassallo]

even if you never overheated again, and everybody else kept pulling off to overheat? ;-)

yeah, it costs more money, but you have taht peace of mind knowing that your car will be fine.

[paul kersey]

i dont know.
im not saying its not worth it.

im just saying its overkill for charles' car, or cars set up similarly.

[_Charles_]

I wasn't the only one with the problem overheating during the hot-lapping. The fan has a thermostat switch. I probably should look into a dual core radiator, just sucks to have to invest extra $$$ for that few minutes of hot-lapping.

[paul kersey]

dual core radiator and a constant fan will help a bunch
i might want to buy your stock radiator if this will be in the near future.

[icantdrift]

i seriously cannot believe how many posts it took for someone to suggest a bigger radiator.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
do you think a single row stock radiator was made for hot lapping?
no. its not.


i was thinking the same thing....


but my suggestion that's not insanely high priced is something like my good old koyo radiator. i have koyo's S14 radiator in my car (they shipped the wrong one but it fits with some new screw holes) and at the trackday at OGP after 3 hard laps i was just getting over 200*F on the gauge, and that's with the wimpy little 14" fan i have on there right now (only ~1400cfm fan). i'm going to put my spare 16" on there instead (2850CFM) and see if it keeps me a good bit cooler). so my vote is bigger radiator because the stock ones both JDM and USDM are crappy in hot weather and a good sized electric fan.

[box240mod]

well i over heated on my first run, just 2 laps, before we did the hotlapping style. I let it cool and then added water. Once it fully cooled later, I added a crap load of water to the radiator. During the hotlapping, i didnt over heat at all.... funny isnt it.

not to bash you at all, but if you were spining out or having really high rpms to 'save' a slide it will obviously make u heat up more... if u using the motor too much to drift instead of some inertia that could overwork the engine...
when i was overheating (bubbling out and gurgling out of overflow) i didnt have a smooth line or error free run, the very next run, i was rockin that shit nice and i didnt overheat (some in overflow but no where near top)

these things may sound dumb but hey.... fixed my overheating problem

[craig_302]

Get a real aluminum radiator and fans NOT from a junkyard. Do you want junkyard shit cooling your expensive car? FAL fans aren't that expensive, neither are good radiators and certainly they are alot less pricey than a new motor.

You knew the answer to your dilemma before you posted this, you're not that daft.

[paul kersey]

the taurus fan actually flows more cfm than 2 fal's.
but do whatever.

[_Charles_]

The overheating started right after Tony Shultz took me for a spin in my car......and he took the first corner in 3rd gear.

[cyanide]

http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB9&Number=67953891&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

[dan]

i could make a paper chinese fan and wave it more cfm's than some FALs.

get a SPAL. a big one. just one. wire constant. get a real radiator. keep on keepin on.


or mount a big piece of aluminum flashing or some type of metal sticking straight out of the intercooler/grille area to divert air to the car while you're sideways. it seems to work. ducting.

[mendozasport]

just slapping on any fan at any cfm rating wont be the perfect fix... take this as an example ..if you have a lit candle and you pass your hand over it an inch away at a slow speed your palm will burn ..... now do it again but speed it up a bit and you feel no tempeture diference ....thats what happens when you give it more cfm's your just passing air faster through the radiator not transmiting temperture to the air.....
the cooling system is engineered for certain use , radiator size towards cfm , to B.T.U.'s (british thermal units) or how much heat is extracted from the water per each cubic foot per minute...to much math to much shit ...easy way out ... water squiter infront of radiator and intercooler ..the lower your charge temp the cooler your motor.. the cooler your water the less the motor sufers.... if you can drive in trafic and the car doesnt overheat your cooling system is about "balanced" so all you need is some thing to help on the hot laps....and the water wont affect the track cause it will evaporate once it hits the fins...

[Hoonta]

has anyone ever had a radiator made?
Like a 2 or 3 core custom jobber.

[satanshatch]

C&R is a slamming radiator. No doubt about that. But upwards of $499+ for a radiator ? Jesus.. thats steep.

Whats wrong with a Koyo/fluadine, and a decent fan (pref one that runs all the time), water wetter and a good thermostat ?

I wouldn't hot lap my car like that with out a decent set up anyway. But thats me being overly cautious.

Side note:

*Matt why are none of these "new" parts you guys are carrying on your site ?*

[Matt Vassallo]

there's not really a problem with them, they've just been proven to not be up to the standards of hot lapping in florida heat.

the radiator / intercooler sprayer is a very good idea, wrx's come with this from the factory (or is it STI's)

with C&R you are also paying for exclusivity

[satanshatch]

with C&R you are also paying for exclusivity

LOL Theres a HUGE understatement.. LOL

If you can afford it ! Still a nice ass radiator. Sooooo new products? Web site ? Prices ?

[Anthony Macaluso]

Just an FYI, my car was getting hot too and I have an aluminum Koyo, 50/50 mix, perma-cool (on all the time), and a Nismo Thermostat. First time my car's ever gotten hot at an event and it happened 2x. :dunno: I'm going to look into ways to maximize what I've got, but if the car getting hot after only a few runs becomes common, I wouldn't mind spending the extra dough on a better cooling system...it's cheaper than a motor and peace of mind is priceless.

Oh, and for people who don't know me, I've got the banged up green s13 hatch. :tard:

[Matt Vassallo]

Yeah.

Our cars put out close to twice the horsepower of everyone elses' out there. The efficiency of the internal combustion motor's is the same, so we're generating close to twice the amount of heat per combustion event as everyone elses. All this heat is going into our cooling system and we still don't have cooling issues.

So while it IS expensive, is THE no brainer solution worth it to some people? Actually it is. 15-20 laps in a row without going over 103 C

[Mars_302]

some of you guys with no a/c can always pull your condensor too, or make sure your front air damn is working

[TNathe]

What radiator do you have?
Step biznitches, a radiator was "suggested" on the 4th post. :lol:

[Anthony Macaluso]

some of you guys with no a/c can always pull your condensor too, or make sure your front air damn is working

This is a very good point. I still have mine sitting there...does nothing but add weight and restrict air flow. I've been too lazy to remove my mine.:doh:

[lunchbox]

Uhm Yeah You Do ... After The Last Hot Laps Yours Or Robs Car Was Pouring Coolant..or What Looked To Be Plain Water..out Of The Overflow Someone Fergot To Leave The Fan Switched On. I Heard Someone Say

[lunchbox]

And Everyone Has To Remember That When Your Turning 7500 Rpms For Extended Periods Of Time That Your Waterpump Is "cavatateing"sp Air Bubbles That Get Stuck Around The Impeller Part Of The Pump And Make It Useless. Electric Waterpumps Are Great For Fixing This Problem And Rather Cheap

[cyanide]

C&R is a slamming radiator. No doubt about that. But upwards of $499+ for a radiator ? Jesus.. thats steep.
c&r also includes a SPAL fan and mounting bracket with. so if you figure you spent $340 on a Koyo and another $150 on electric fans, then you're not too much far off from the price of the C&R. plus, on FA several people have broken the coolant overflow neck on the Koyo aluminum radiators. i don't know about you, but if i'm paying $300 for a radiator, shit better not break.

[Matt Vassallo]

Yeah, the car actually bubbled out coolant AFTER we were done running it, and let the car idle for about 10 minutes with the fan off :lol: silly rob!

Also, we have modified pumps on our cars, they work better.

[mendozasport]

matt the STI has the sprayer as an oppcion ....found that out this morning , didnt know it till you said something about it

[Chin]

Yeah there is a manuel switch, and I think a full throttle swich. Its cool stuff you can use the stock windsheild wiper system to spary water on the IC and the radiator, or be like rob and spray it on the rear tires lol

[paul kersey]

water spray wont do hardly anything to cool your engine.
it only cools the intake charge temp.

another issue is intercooler core design.
and how much air it will let pass.
i know apex'i cores let alot more air through, but dont make as much power.

i bet people with big radiators, good fans, proper coolant mix, good ducting, and a sidemount intercooler wouldnt have near the issues of people running a poor design fmic, a condensor they dont use, and poor air ducting letting the air go out the easiest way, and not forcing it to go one place.

this isnt all that complicated, and doesnt have to be expensive.

[DriftingDJ]

dual core radiator not single, flexalite fans not 1 ford fan, and replace the s13 waterpump with a much better s14 pump and some insulation like so....

[J-Dizzle]

KOYO.... and dual fans and probally replace thermo like he said^mine as well do nismo thermo too

jason

[J-Dizzle]

i meant water pump

[Matt Vassallo]

S14 water pump makes no differnece over S13 water pump. Don't believe the hype

[Anthony Macaluso]

water spray wont do hardly anything to cool your engine.

it only cools the intake charge temp.

I don’t think you understand how a heat exchanger works. If you did, you'd understand how a water spray system can be very beneficial to the efficiency of a radiator (or any heat exchanger for that matter).



another issue is intercooler core design.

and how much air it will let pass.

i know apex'i cores let alot more air through, but dont make as much power.



I have a Greddy RSPL which is a tube and fin design like the Apexi core. I fail to see how the Apexi cores let a lot more air through. Maybe when compared to a bar and plate this is true, but the differences between mine and an Apexi core should be marginal at best. Besides, a less efficient core would be a worse heat exchanger which would cause the air passing through to exit hotter. Hotter air passing through the radiator would cause a decrease in radiator efficiency. Speculations, speculations.



i bet people with big radiators, good fans, proper coolant mix, good ducting, and a sidemount intercooler wouldnt have near the issues of people running a poor design fmic, a condensor they dont use, and poor air ducting letting the air go out the easiest way, and not forcing it to go one place.



this isnt all that complicated, and doesnt have to be expensive.



My "condensor" is the only thing 'wrong' with my cooling system but I've never had a problem before which is what concerned me. I've done plenty of drift events in conditions equally as bad or worse than Saturday's and my heat's never risen that high. I'll take the condenser out this weekend, make sure my timing's OK, and flush the coolant system and see how she does at Atlanta (DGT, not FD). A side-mount I/C is great if you want to run stock boost and drive on the street. Ideally, a V-mount would be our best solution.

[paul kersey]

trust me, i know how a heat exchanger works.
but unless youre dumping gallons of water on it at a time, it wont run any cooler to notice. not to mention spraying water all over the place (which will evaperate in a little time, but its still not practical.) also, are you going to be able to be hitting a water spray button the whole time youre drifting? most likely no.

i didnt really mean to say ALOT as in "the apexi lets the most air through in the world.
just that that style lets more air through than different styles.
i just dont know every company that makes tube and fin, and apex'i came to mind first.

also, yeas a sidemount is ideal, for running stock boost, and not much outside of street driving.
but, it lets as much air through the radiator as possible.
and this isnt a thread about intercooler setup, its about overheating, and how to solve that.
a v mount would be best, and doing something similar to the sport compact car project would be best. and you wouldnt have to cut a hole in the hood.
heres a link to their solution.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0306scc_projsilvia/

[dori dori]

trust me, i know how a heat exchanger works.
but unless youre dumping gallons of water on it at a time, it wont run any cooler to notice. not to mention spraying water all over the place (which will evaperate in a little time, but its still not practical.) also, are you going to be able to be hitting a water spray button the whole time youre drifting? most likely no.


Drive down the highway with your hand out the window. Notice your hand being cooler...then sprinkle some water on your hands. You should notice your hand getting much cooler. That's what would happen over the entire core of the radiator w/ a proper waterspray system...it WILL make a difference. You can set them up w/ sensors or to just be on all the time so there is no reason to have to fuss w/ anything while drifting. Dave Coleman talked about this in one of his tech articles. :)

[paul kersey]

you people are seriously reaching pretty far, and are bordering on ridiculous.
someone brought up the sti's waterspray. which SPRAYS WATER ON THE INTERCOOLER. NOT ON THE RADIATOR.
i was simply saying, that spraying water on the intercooler will not cool the engine.

but do whatever, maybe rig up an ice machine in the trunk to shoot ice cubes at the engine block?
or put the engine in the passenger seat, so it can ride in the a/c?

[Ronald Mcdonald]

put the engine in the passenger seat, so it can ride in the a/c?

hahahaha best thing i have read all day....:lol::lol::lol:

[paul kersey]

Drive down the highway with your hand out the window. Notice your hand being cooler...then sprinkle some water on your hands. You should notice your hand getting much cooler. That's what would happen over the entire core of the radiator w/ a proper waterspray system...it WILL make a difference. You can set them up w/ sensors or to just be on all the time so there is no reason to have to fuss w/ anything while drifting. Dave Coleman talked about this in one of his tech articles. :)

im 100% aware of how evaparating water cools things.
but your hand isnt near the tempature that the radiator/intercooler/whatever other engine component is, and after the evaparation is over, in about 1 second, your hand is hot again.

[thoraxe]

The primary problem is airflow, not the actual radiator itself, and not just the amount of flow.

Yes, the stock radiator runs out of gas pretty fast, but a lot of it has to do with the fact that most of you guys are either not running OEM ducting, have intercoolers, still have A/C condensers, or some combination of the three.

Just putting together proper ducting to make sure that the air can flow smoothly from the cool front bumper (80 deg compared to 200deg coolant is cool.) and then get out the engine bay at the back is important.

Even my car with a Griffin, no condenser, and the FAL fans still overheats. Why? Because the airflow through the system is shit. Remember, when sideways, there's not a lot of airflow through your engine bay, so you have to assist the car.

I'll come up with a solution once I have the car back in my possession.

The Enjuku setup is great if you have tons of money to spend. They also have lots of other little modifications which aren't readily included in the "our radiators are so awesome" discussion, like, for example, modified water pumps.

Some creativity and some cheap parts from home depot will do a good job, too.

[icantdrift]

Some creativity and some cheap parts from home depot will do a good job, too.


i concur. some sheetmetal ducting can go a long way to helping cooling. i'm about to build some thin sheetmetal ducting to pull air from under the car up and behind the intercooler to help the radiator get cooler air... might be a waste of time but hey it could work too.