some one explain the vortech style supercharger

[kender]

I know how turbo's work, and I am a little familiar with the jackson racing supercharger. but the vortech units confuse me. the jackson racing sc gets 8psi at like 1500rpm and holds it till redline. but the max psi is 8, maybe 10 with the upgrade kit. but the vortech units offer a trim on the compressor that is with in the center island of efficiency ( on a compressor map) and put out up to 30psi. does this mean that since it is belt driven it gets full boost at the 1500 or 2000 rpms or does it start low and build to 30psi depending on rpms? also this would mean that if 5krpms meant 20psi then you wouldn't need wot like on a turbo cause the sc is rpm dependant where the turbo is load/throttle position and rpm dependant. am I on the right track or way off in left field?

please shed some light or a link to more info ( I have already read their website)

thanks

[Josiah]

thats pretty much the idea, a centrufigal sc is RPM dependent...meaning the faster its spun, the more boost it produces(pretty similar to a turbo actually) I have no idea why this is not the case with roots style blowers...but for some reason its instant with roots type(jr sc, or eaton)

[NChatch]

yeah vortech style blowers, can actually make boost at partial throttle, low speeds, and at very low rpms.

they rate them in "trim" in a very similar way to a turbo, along with sized pullies to get a HP rating.

they can add different wheels in them just like a turbo.


some blowers like powerdyne's and such have a gear reduction system that can get a blower to spin outrageous RPMs.

the only downfall to blowers are they usually fall off before redline, they stay hot, and they require power to make power.

but i do like them, because they are pretty efficient, sound cool, and make power fast

[kender]

I have a turbo setup right now but my car is a daily driver and on the street I don't feel any power increase unless I put my foot in it and then it has a little lag. If the vortech units work the way I think then even if I just give it %50 throttle while I'm at 4krpms then I will feel the power as opposed to a turbo that needs at least %75 throttle. also a 1.6 ltr needs an extreemly small turbine and a big compressor to make high boost, for the track it's great but for the street the response isn't there. I wouldn't do it for a jrsc but a vortech with 20-25psi......I am strongly thinking about it, also the aftercooler will be a must on it. and I will definately get an oil cooler to help out with the heat.

if anyone else has more to add, please do.

thanks

[Josiah]

"if you have lag son, you aint driving it right" no, but seriously, if you have bad lag then your turbo isnt sized right for your engine, personally my boost is instant(assuming I'm in the right gear to use it) I would seriously think about using a different sized turbo for daily driving

[John]

1f y0u'|23 c0|\|c3|2|\|3d 4b0u7 l4g, 7h3|235 |\|07h1|\|g 7h47 l4g5 \^/0|253 7h4|\| 4 c3|\|7|21fug4l 57yl3 bl0\^/3|2.

[kender]

if you're concerned about lag, theres nothing that lags worse than a centrifugal style blower.


how would it lag when all your waiting for is rpm and not rpm+spinning the turbine? the rate at which the rpm increases may not be instant but rpm increase is a lot faster than turbo lag. as for the size it is a t3/t4 .48hot .60cold 57 trim. it is the same size that others have used and isn't too big for street use. I really can't get too much smaller on the hot side and any smaller on the cold side and I won't get 20psi

[Josiah]

.48/.60 IS too big for street use for a 1.6L-1.8L engine, regardless of what you may have been told, a .42/.48 would be much better sized for your engine, providing much better response, as far as getting 20psi...no a t25 will not produce 20psi...but you yourself said this is for street driving...15psi is easily attainable on it, good throttle response...as far as centrufigal superchargers, it takes time to build RPM just as much as it does to build load, unless your launching at 5k RPMs and staying above that the whole time you will have lag with a centrufigal sc anyway, if you look at the cars they used .48/.60 turbos on stock you'll notice one thing...they are all larger than 2.0L, why? they didnt want turbo lag, I personally drive in the 4k-6k RPM range most of the time when driving agressively...therefore...no turbo lag, if I'm out of that range I do a little thing called downshifting....bam, instant boost

[kender]

well you may have just saved me a bundle on the centrifugal system. I normally stay within the same rpm range when driving as well, just nat neccessarily with full throttle, I also haven't downshifted for fear of popping it at too high of an rpm with a stock tranny and drive train, with the clutch at unknown condition. once I run a built motor/ and tranny then I don't think I'll worry about it as much. I also think some of the lag I felt may be caused my the lack of compression in the cylinders at the time ( 130 was my highest). but since I was reibuilding the motor I thought I would look into the centrifugal sc. from the sounds of it though I would be better off staying with the turbo setup, and maybe after the rebuild see if the lag is still as bad ( if it is then I may step the turbo down a notch), but I am also stepping up the displacement to a 1.8 so that may rid of some lag.

thanks fo the info,

[John]

\^/3ll 70 g0 fu|27h3|2 1|\|70 \^/h47 1 \^/45 54y1|\|g, 4 c3|\|7|21fug4l bl0\^/3|2 |\|3v3|2 fully '5p00l5'. 17'5 c0|\|574|\|7ly bu1ld1|\|g b0057, \^/h3|23 4 7u|2b0 \^/1ll bu1ld 4|\|d c0m3 70 4 pl4734u. V0|273ch5 4|\|d 7h3 l1k3 4|23 m0|23 f0|2 b1g, 70|2qu3y m070|25 7h47 |\|33d 70p 3|\|d. 7h3|\| 4g41|\|, 7u|2b05 4|23 g00d f0|2 7h3m 700 :D .

[Josiah]

that is another issue...generally a centrufigal charger is going to run upwards of $2000, whereas a t25 you could find in a junyard for $50 and rebuild it for $200 or less, or the cheapest alternative yet...keep your turbo and rebuild your motor for better compression

[kender]

I am doing the rebuild and will end up with the cr around 9.5:1.

[turbo-max]

if you don't like lag, spray it.. i do

[kender]

in my car I need room for a bottle......a baby bottle that is, I've got full audio system and the only place left for spray is on the rear floor board. but I need that for passengers.

[turbo-max]

make room

[Maite]

Roots style and centrifugal blowers are both just air pumps, but each does their job in a completley different way. The centrifugal blower is more RPM dependent, due to the fact that it relies a lot on inertia of the air, which obviously has more of an effect at higher RPM.

[Sneakin Deacon]

.48/.60 IS too big for street use for a 1.6L-1.8L engine, regardless of what you may have been told, a .42/.48 would be much better sized for your engine, providing much better response, as far as getting 20psi...no a t25 will not produce 20psi...but you yourself said this is for street driving...15psi is easily attainable on it, good throttle response...as far as centrufigal superchargers, it takes time to build RPM just as much as it does to build load, unless your launching at 5k RPMs and staying above that the whole time you will have lag with a centrufigal sc anyway, if you look at the cars they used .48/.60 turbos on stock you'll notice one thing...they are all larger than 2.0L, why? they didnt want turbo lag, I personally drive in the 4k-6k RPM range most of the time when driving agressively...therefore...no turbo lag, if I'm out of that range I do a little thing called downshifting....bam, instant boost

ok, i think we need to clarify what exactly "gauged boost" is. a T25 can achieve 20psi..just depends how restrictive the intake system is. for example, say kender was to put the vortech on his car with stock exhaust all the way back. at 5000rpm, with the same pulley combo, the blower will ALWAYS spin X rpm, and also flow X amount of air. this is the constant and lets say this makes 10psi. take that exhaust manifold off for a high flowing aftermarket one, port the head, and now you may only see 5psi at 5000rpm. you are still flowing the same amount of air, the blower is still turning the same rpm...but your engine has become more efficient and free flowing.

also, a vortech is basically never ending boost lag. if you want instantaneous boost, go with a roots blower. but both of these cause paracitic power loss due to extra rotational mass.

my final say is, go turbo...in a race, your most likely not going to be under 5000rpm, so lag isnt really an issue with a properly sized turbo(sizing can vary greatly, it all depends on cam selection, displacement, and the basic efficiency of the motor, just cause its 1.6L doesnt mean it is a bad idea to use a large turbo. its only a bad idea if the engine will not support it) other reason being is a turbo is IMO more efficient, as your not worried about aligning pullies, possibly crank vibrations causing premature wear, belt slippage, etc.

[Josiah]

pretty much sneakin put it more the way I was trying to, yes a t25 can make 20psi....but its just blowing hot air at that point, btw I was wrong, k cars have to4e turbos for the automatics....not yet sure what the 5 speeds use...but they are much less common I think they may be t25s or t3s