Potential of the LT1

[Jordan Y.]

Y'know, everybody on the board has jokingly talked the LT1 down so often that I started to buy into it. I was reading camaroz28.com today, and it seems that heads/cam 350/355's are good for ~425 to the wheels with the right heads, cam, and valvetrain to support the cam. Fess up, how many of you LT1 guys are putting down good power? Why is it the LS1 takes the lion's share of the attention when the LT1 is capable of numbers nearly as impressive while coming in older less expensive cars?

[ponchoV8]

Bolt-on vs. bolt-on an LS1 wins hands down.

An LT1 would need the following just to equal a dead-stock LS1, and I'm talking about '98-'00 models, the '01/'02s were blessed by God himself...LOL:

-cold air intake
-bigger throttle body
-1.6 roller rockers
-.500 lift cam
-shorty headers
-cat-back exhaust

All of the above components are already on an LS1 in stock form, on top of the fact that it has better flowing heads; it's stock air intake, bigger T.B., 1.7 R.R's, .500 lift cam, freer flowing manifolds, and better exhaust are superior to a dead-stock LT1. And by bolting on components onto an LS1 like a lid and LT's, the LT1 falls behind again by virtue of it's weaker flowing heads and Optispark ignition that isn't as good as the LS1's coil-per-plug design. Strength-wise the LT1 only has 2-bolt mains in F-bodies/4-bolt mains in Vettes, all LS-series blocks are 6-bolt mains. Some prefer the stronger iron block of the LT1 and it's easier to machine since it's based on the traditional SBC, but you can resleeve an aluminum LS block up to 455ci last I read, while an LT1 I've only read being taken as large as 401ci and that's maxing it. There are also iron-block LS-series engines as well. Plus the LT1 was only around from '92-'97 so as the years go by, some of it's more unique parts will be harder to find. The LS-series engines are the present and future, but dig into both the LT1 and LS1 and they are equally capable of putting serious #'s down.

Early LS1 cars are also getting to be within the reach of enthusiasts and are still in decent shape, while older LT1 cars, though even cheaper, have probably been beat to hell or are just falling apart due to it being a G.M. product.

My LT1 laid down 278rwhp and 302 rwtq with just a cutout and CAI on the former TuneTech Dynojet, then 2 years later it only put down 260rwhp and 281rwtq on the Hybrid Performance Dynojet with the addition of a T.B. foil and 160* thermostat, so I don't know which to believe. I'm still slow no matter which number I stick with...lol.

[formula69]

bla the ls1 is great and all but id take my caveman lt1 over it any day.

Congradulations you have a 6 bolt main block. if you really want you can get your 2 bolt lt1 block made into a 4 bolt which is plenty strong enough.. 6 bolt is overkill. OOO your ls1 has a bigger cam, rockers and intake manifold stock.. your most likely gonna get rid of that anyways so why waste your money on a motor that has larger stock parts?

as far as lt1s putting down serious power, im building a forged 355 with ported stock heads, supercharger cam and a roots style blower.. its gonna put down some serious power and be daily driven. The lt1 will be very powerful depending on how you mod it.. im telling you right now tho you dont need a bigger cam to beat ls1s.. the motor i have in my firebird right now has bolt ons (headers, exhaust, intake, electric water pump) and some weight reduction and i take down ls1s... i put over 320 hp and over 350 tq... thats more torqe than any stock ls1 comes with. if i were to put a cam and 1.6 roller rockers in id be duelin it with bpu zo6s not stock 02 ws6s

heres what you do. if you want a fast stock car, have the money to kill, and you are mechanically retarted and cant work on your own shit go buy an ls1. it comes stock very powerful, its a great motor and you will have a hard time breaking it.. put a lid and an exhaust on it and have fun..
if you want to make serious power on a budget, go buy an lt1, use the money you saved in difference from the big money ls1 you wouldve bought and mod the hell out of your lt1. lets say you pick up a high mileage lt1.. 5000 bucks.. you saved 10k over the 15,000 dollar ls1... 10gs can be spent like this:
ford 9in rear end and strong driveshaft= $2500
Stage 4 clutch and flywheel= $1000
nice ported stock heads and cam package=$1600
383 stroker kit assembled balanced and probably enough for install= $3000
bolt ons (exhaust intake etc)= $1000

and you have 900 bucks to do whatever with... that setup stated above with some sticky tires will put over 500 to the wheels with a good tune

now of course with the same mods, the ls1 will put down more power, but it will cost you triple what it costs for an lt1 so if your rich as hell go buy an ls1 but if your the average tamponricer.com person the lt1 is just more reasonable

[willie666]

I've had both, forged internal,supercharged full bolt on LT1, and mild bolt on nitrous LS1, I can tell you first hand.......LS1>LT1. With a lid and mass air sensor I can remember atleast 4-5 head cam LT1's that I beat. Ls1 is close to a full second faster from the factory and mod for mod, dollar for dollar, the LS1 is the LT1's daddy...not to mention way more reliable. I rate the LT1 in the same class as Fords 2V modular motor.......

[Half Fast]

LT1's have potential?

[ZDriver96]

Damn it Richard Stand up for your LT1 Vette.... may the lord have mercy if they run into yours :)

Basically if u can afford it get an LS1... Better intake system, better brakes, better engine design, better heads/cam stock.

As far as potential goes... when you add heads/cam to an LT1 it evens the playing field alittle more.. the gap closes some.
I have some heads on my LT1 from one of the notrious cz28.com head builders... I already put them on the engine but havent put the engine back in the car.

These heads/cam LT1's from AI or Lloyd routinely run high 11's-mid 12's depending on track conditions and trap 113-117 depending on supporting mods. were talking 93 octane, heads/cam/exhaust/TB/intake/decent tune. Some of those guys getting 400rwhp+ still used short tube headers or 91 california octane.

[Half Fast]

Well I think that high 10's are possible on the stock short block. We will see. :dunno:

[gator]

all an LT1 needs is a blower or nitrous. IMO with the design of the intake throwing boost into the LT1 = heaven.

yea Half Fast's LT1 moves out.

[DaTruth]

I've seen cat's stop in the middle of the street take a dump and get out of the way of a LT1 moving at a supposed G-Tech 100mph when the LT1 car was only two feet away. Just kidding.. I use to have a very potent 95 TA. I had a built 355ci with a small cam, CNC'd heads with a Procharger. With 12lbs of boost I put out 565rwhp. LT1's can be very potent when done right.

[Half Fast]

uhhh-oh there's that darned done right thing again. :doh:

[formula69]

anyone ever heard of a roots type blower goin on an f body? get ready for it and it will be exclusivly lt1 for now..

the long block is assembled but i havent even talked to the shop about fabbing the pulley setup yet.. couple more months and the kit will be done on my engine and shortly after that the kit will be available to everyone, and its a hell of a lot cheaper than the sts turbo or any centri superchargers out there... im looking for over 600 hp

[Half Fast]

Don't forget either a huge cowl or a mail box on your hood. :lol:

[formula69]

hood? who said anything about hood? :lol:

[ponchoV8]

Hood? You need to worry about stuffing the back part of that motor under the lovingly designed F-body cowl/windshield. Time to invest in some glass cutters. Neat set-up though, good luck with it. I say swap that Eaton off for a Kenne-Bell.

[formula69]

actually ill post another picture, the intake manifold positions the supercharger far enough forward so i dont have to cut into the glass or the cowl.. maybe just a little bit of the plastic, and since i have no a/c running intake tubing wont be a problem

[GTman85]

I make decent power but i get bs called on me so i wont say what im putting down

[Rolling Thundah]

LT1 can be ls1's daddys just ask Joe Overton, or pick up GM high tech and see the cover! Weak points for ls1 heads(flow restriction) and opti. Now you can get a coil conversion(thank F'ing God) and there are some porters than can do wonders with LT1 heads. Building a big NAWWWWWWZ motor or FI I would feel more comfortable with the lt1 , the ls1 ghey boys go lq4 (no names mentioned,LOL) block due to these concerns. In stock for the ls1 is like the lt4 and will whoop an lt1. Modded in depends on how fat that wallet is.

[ponchoV8]

You older guys remember 97ChameleonTA? One of the BADRAP founders. His '97, a strictly N/A bolt-on, original 6-speed T/A used to run mid-12's, full weight. I know he had Grot LT's, 1.6 RR's, Moroso CAI, 3.73's in a Moser 12-bolt, MSD ignition, and I believe a Hooker cat-back, that badboy was blessed. Plus Marty could drive the hell out of it. I have yet to see another local LT1 hit 12's with a strictly N/A bolt-on car. Last I heard he was in the midst of boosting it.

[Jordan Y.]

That's more like it, a few lt1 guys are willing to publicly admit they're not slow. :lol:

Stock for stock, yeah, the ls1 wins. I think the point could be argued, but the ls1 probably has more ultimate potential, through more efficient design and even if only because the ls engines are the new standard and will be for the forseeable future. I was thinking along the lines of formula69, that comparing a heads/cam lt1 ("done right", of course) to a heads/cam ls1, the power difference is not large enough to discount the lt1 considering the large premium you pay to get into an ls1 car. It's like the lt1 is the unwanted Chinese daughter of the GM world.

Good discussion on the topic, and good points on an argument going through my head as I worked helping my friend swap an engine into his lt1 firebird today.

[formula69]

You older guys remember 97ChameleonTA? One of the BADRAP founders. His '97, a strictly N/A bolt-on, original 6-speed T/A used to run mid-12's, full weight. I know he had Grot LT's, 1.6 RR's, Moroso CAI, 3.73's in a Moser 12-bolt, MSD ignition, and I believe a Hooker cat-back, that badboy was blessed. Plus Marty could drive the hell out of it. I have yet to see another local LT1 hit 12's with a strictly N/A bolt-on car. Last I heard he was in the midst of boosting it.im in the 12s with stock rear end and stock valvetrain and stock ignition??

[BlackZ28]

'96 LT1 here, put down 265hp 305tq at the wheels stock besides a cold air intake and a pcm tune. I usually had no problems with completely stock ls1's before i had the tune.

[Sneakin Deacon]

400+/400+ problem being, no knock on dyno, lotsa knock on street. but anyways, old numbers, old news.


the LT1 isnt a bad design, its the shit they tag along with it, like the opti.

like i try to tell people, the reason the ls1 is a better performer outta the box is head design, weight advantage, and cam design....its just a technologically advanced LT1.

ill stick behind an LT1, my goal (even though people will laugh at me when i say it) is 700rwhp on STOCK heads, possibly some porting, decent cam, properly selected turbo, and my bad boy bottom end.

the key to good times is getting out of the hole. get your 60' down, and utilize the power you already have. that is the key to going fast. harness ~400rwhp, and you could possibly be knocking on 10's door with a 3000lb car.

[JuicedSS262]

Formual69: While I admire your passion and your imgination, I must admit, your faith I lack. Sure it sounds good what your are planning, but untill it actually works, it's only theory, however well thought out. I understand you are a young man, and for that I am envious, I wish you the best of luck and will follow your progress.

Folks, dont be scared of building a powerful LT1, they are out there, and can be built with the kind of energy that young formula brings to the table. For me, the LS1 is my choice based on bang for the buck mods. 500rwhp with a simple 2 stage N20 setup, headers and lid/exhaust. Bingo - thats fast and easy. And think about Shalanes car, beuatiful in it's simplicity - ran 11.5 with stock heads and cam. A conveter, duals, lid and headers. Damn that was easy huh?

Yes an LT1 based car can be had for much less than an LS1, and can be made fast. Possibly just as fast as an LS1 with the money saved at purchase put towards modding, maybe faster. Both have their limitations, pluses and minus' but GM did get these engines right, and thank God for that. Look at these motor's predecassors and the argument goes moot!

[plan Z]

i've always wanted an ls1 but every time i think about selling, i just tell myself i'd rather try beating an ls1 with an lt1 than beating an lt1 with an ls1. it may be a little harder goal, especially with the 4L60e, but i like the challenge so far. plus i got my car paid off and i already know my car inside and out, what parts are new, and whats next on the list. i am anxious to see how much i knock off next time i go to the track though since my last tranny did slip. but anyway, as much as i'd love a 6spd LS1, i still love my car

[Rolling Thundah]

poncho I ran 12.9 with mild heads and a small cam with bald drag radials & bad tranny. My new setup will slaughter that!!!

[ponchoV8]

Formula, Rollin, 97Chameleon's car was a strictly N/A bolt-on car, no heads/cam, no N20, and full weight. The car is listed as one of the fastest bolt-on only LT1 cars on cz28.com, running 12.5's last I saw before he moved. He could have probably gone as quick on the stock 10-bolt, but he told me the reason for the 12-bolt and 3.73's was in preparation for the poweradder he had planned for. You guys are way quicker than me, but no 97Chameleon you ain't. Sorry to sound like his sack rider, but his shit was badass for what it had...or what it didn't have. And like I said, he drove it like he stole it.

[formula69]

Formual69: While I admire your passion and your imgination, I must admit, your faith I lack. Sure it sounds good what your are planning, but untill it actually works, it's only theory, however well thought out. I understand you are a young man, and for that I am envious, I wish you the best of luck and will follow your progress.

Folks, dont be scared of building a powerful LT1, they are out there, and can be built with the kind of energy that young formula brings to the table. For me, the LS1 is my choice based on bang for the buck mods. 500rwhp with a simple 2 stage N20 setup, headers and lid/exhaust. Bingo - thats fast and easy. And think about Shalanes car, beuatiful in it's simplicity - ran 11.5 with stock heads and cam. A conveter, duals, lid and headers. Damn that was easy huh?

Yes an LT1 based car can be had for much less than an LS1, and can be made fast. Possibly just as fast as an LS1 with the money saved at purchase put towards modding, maybe faster. Both have their limitations, pluses and minus' but GM did get these engines right, and thank God for that. Look at these motor's predecassors and the argument goes moot!dan it was nice to meet you at rolling thunder. as for the ls1 vs lt1 arguement, if i had had the extra cash to burn on an ls1 when i bought this car i would have, its just not there for me. I gotta work with what i have. so just like anyone else, im gonna try to make what i have as fast as i can... Shalane's car rocks, your car rocks.. i could only hope to get that fast, and the truth is its gonna take a bult lt1 with a supercharger on my half to even think about getting to the point you guys have reached with bolt ons and nitrous.. it sucks but us lt1 guys gotta stick up for our motors as best as we can.. ls1 = new technology= faster... lt1=oldskool=rappers delight of engines :lol:

and as for lt1s n/a being fast, i believe the record is a 12.03 bolt-ons stock weight stock heads, cam, no n20, stock bottom end on drag radials.. its posted somewhere on ls1tech.com

[Sneakin Deacon]

and for an LS1 being fast, i believe the record for fastest CAM ONLY! (minus bolt-ons, duh) is mid 10's.

[Zman]

its funny how some things will always be the same, one engine is better then the other. Now I remember guys were running 327's and thought 350's were junk and heaven forbid if you used a 400 with its steam hole heads and short rod design. They laughed at me also when I built my 400 but 10's and street tires (M&H's) became reality, no juice either. yes it was lots of work and money. But LS1 or LT1 can both run depending on mods. heck my friends class car has a 267 Wayne County motor (for you older guys) that runs mid 10's at 12000 RPM

[formula69]

there are all kinds of motors out there, the lt1 is one of them, and i will be the first to admit that it is no where near the best. i chose the car because i couldnt afford an ls1 and i refuse to make payments on a car. i will cut my losses and work with what i have. my car is slow as hell compared to a lot of the ls1s on this board, but that doesnt mean i cant hang with some of the BPU ls1s.. and my ONLY point is, it has cost me less money to make my lt1 hang with lets say an ss with lid, exhaust and maybe one or two other bolt ons than it did for that ls1 owner to buy his car and put those mods on it..

::prepares himself to be called out by every ls1 owner with BPU:: :lol:

like i said earlier, if you have the cash go buy an ls1.. 6 bolt mains, light as hell engine, stout as fuck stock, and all you need is lid, exhaust, and some NAWWWWZZZ and your near 500 hp.. nuf said

[Rolling Thundah]

While the ls1 motor is lighter than the lt1 , thew lt1 car is lighter than the ls1 car. Think I am bs'ing look it up! LT1 vs ls1 is a moot point, let's say man with biggest wallet has best motor. All the big dawgs in either cars have dropped 15k plus to get that way and then that depends on if they did the labor or paid for it.

[2NASSTY]

I didn't know LT1's were slow :dunno:

[Rolling Thundah]

Oh yes Chett they are, ls1/6/2/7 guys can tell you as can Cobra guys. Pshhhh you have an ls6 you know better!

[myltwon]

the L98/LB9/LG4 guys laugh at my sad engine choice

[Sneakin Deacon]

i heart my LC2.

[gator]

i think this vid proves teh LT1 is aight......

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311820

[Rolling Thundah]

BS it's an ls1 swap bro!

[shue97z28]

blah blah blah...the fastest F-body in the world is an LT1 and its running on a bored out stock block.


ls1s are awesome, but lt1s are just as good, just older. plus since most people look down upon lt1s, its easier to catch a race against an ignorant douche bag that thinks lt1s are trash.

[gator]

fastest fourth gen fbody is ronnie dukes C5r F2 procharged TA.

[myltwon]

fastest fourth gen fbody is ronnie dukes C5r F2 procharged TA.

I believe the 2 cars are within the tenths or hundred's of a second within each other...no?

[gator]

actually we are both right. ronnie ran 7.9 @ 170, both Harlan and Big Rick have gone faster at 172-173 mph but never broke the 7 second barrier.