Need some advice.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

I've found that in autocrossing, I often want to downshift to 1st gear around some corners, namely 90 degree tight turns. I have always just stayed in 2nd gear and pushed on, despite not haing much power out of the corner.

The problem is this. It is very,very, very hard to get back into 1st gear coming from second. I believe it's because my 1st gear isn't syncronyzed, which makes it a struggle to push it back in 1st.

Should I stay in 2nd then? I read in GRM that one should stay in second, despite having the urge to downshift, stating that the time saved by having some extra power on tap will be negated by the time taken to downshift.

thanks.

[mofugga]

unless you're good at heel toeing, leave it in 2nd

[BeQuietAndDrive]

I can heel toe pretty consistantly, especially with the right shoes.

However, the problem is that in order for me to downshift to 1st, I would literally have to shove it in.

[Loren]

It's almost always better to stay in 2nd if you can carry any speed at all through the turn.

Unless you're driving an old MGB or something, your transmission is fully synchronized, even first gear. FWIW, I've driven cars belonging to people who, like you, said "it's impossible to downshift this car into first gear". Never driven one yet that was a problem, you just have to give the throttle a good blip to match the revs.

A good way to practice this is to teach yourself to do a clutchless downshift. Usually a 4-to-3 or 3-to-2 is easiest. Not quite the same as grabbing first, but if you get good at that, you will have mastered the concept required to make a smooth downshift to first. Good luck!

(and if you need more info on how to do a clutchless downshift, lemme know)

[BeQuietAndDrive]

I guess I'll practice doing the downshift...I doubt it's worth it though as my first gear is so short, it's good to maybe 15 mph.

[Loren]

Originally posted by BeQuietAndDrive
I guess I'll practice doing the downshift...I doubt it's worth it though as my first gear is so short, it's good to maybe 15 mph.

Probably not worth it. And that short first gear is what makes that downshift seem so difficult. If you top out at 15 at, say 7k rpm, that puts you at about 3k at 7 mph. So, to execute a smooth downshift to first at 7 mph, you'd have to blip the throttle hard enough to get PAST 3k to synch up the shift.

[Tits McGee]

Leave it in 2nd, or try and rev match so it'll go into gear easier.

[Leonard]

The ONLY car I've ever driven where it was beneficial to downshift was my 2001 mustang cobra.

The 32valve motors are anemic below 4k rpms. That coupled with the fact that mustangs have to crawl through turns created a situation where downshifting didn't cost me any time. Essentially, I was going so slow, I had plenty of time to downshift in the turn before I would have been on the power if I hadn't downshifted.

You're probably going fast enough through the turn that the downshift is costing you time. I highly doubt that the power from teh additional revs will make up for the lost time from the downshift.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

I see...I'll have to see how things pan out at the next Sunriders event. Thanks for all the advice.

It's times like these I wish for an engine with some low end torque..haha.

[Durdan]

i say plan out you line a little sooner ahead of time so it will allow you to go through that turn in 2nd with a little more momemntum

[OversteerS2K]

The ONLY car I've ever driven where it was beneficial to downshift was my 2001 mustang cobra.

If you think a 32 valve Ford V-8 is anemic under 4K RPM, try driving one of these torque monster F20C's. Wow. I heeded the "stay in 2nd" advice for a long time. I know now that 1st is much quicker through a whole lot of tight stuff. I can't heel-toe worth a crap. I just try to make the shift in a, relitively, straight line. If you're not on the hot cam lobes you just feel like a jockey smacking the horse for more. I'm sure a lot of other cars with a pre-set VTEC, VVTi, Varios, etc., engagement point can benefit when done right. I know the Civic's I've driven felt the same way - downshift or wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait............................................

Not to say this will help a Scion (TC's have V.V.T.i. right?).

Your best bet would be to run a very short test & tune course, like on a Saturday in Ft. Myers, and try each way two or three times. You'd need to be a very consistant driver to make any sort of scienific comparison, though.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

I drive an xA actually, and it has VVTi.

VVTi is continuous though, and isn't on/off like VTEC. VVTL-i is like VTEC.

Luckily for you, you've got that 9000 rpm redline..I'm sure staying in 1st gear is no problem for you!

[PseudoRealityX]

It can be beneficial, but it's very rare.

To put it sorta rudely, if you're not in the top 10 in PAX and doing well at the Divisional level, leave it in 2nd and work on corner speed.

Beyond that, it's not worth the wear and tear on the synchros at a local.

[kickslop]

The WRX is damn near impossible to get into 1st gear unless you're doing about 3mph in 2nd, and it's synchro'd. Double-clutching, for some reason, works better, but who the hell has time to double-clutch in an autocross?

I always just stay in 2nd even though it bothers me (off boost, 2L). I've found that with AWD, I am simply being too shy for the car's abilities and could get on the throttle much earlier than I have in the past and it's far less of a problem, especially when "only" dealing with a 90 degree turn and a cleaner setup for it.

[PseudoRealityX]

hmm, one of the only times I've driven a WRX, I had to use 1st, and going down to first wasn't an issue....and I'm by no means a great heel & toe expert. Just have to be patient.