Ter-Tech 535 blew up

[FreeThinker]

Here it is almost 3am and the engine is being replaced. It blew during a demo at the Hialeah stock car races tonight, halfway through the first turn and BAM. Take a look at the pictures.

No time to post them. Just check my photobucket gallery.

http://photobucket.com/albums/v249/freethinker41


-Sean

[Cliff Huckstable]

I bet they were cleaning up oil for a while after that. Looks like its time to drop a 2JZ in that beast. :)

[Laurentz]

It was only a matter of time.

[paul kersey]

imagine that.

[FreeThinker]

Yea imagine that.....

And as far as '...only a matter of time' , Hrmmm, maybe you are alluding to the fact that the car burned oil at Ocala.

The reason it burned oil was because of a PCV valve that vents to the exhaust to create vacuum in the crankcase. Oil was sometimes able to get up the tube and then down into the hot exhaust and you know how it goes from there. Might explain how it magically blew an engine like 12 times at Ocala and then came back to life each time....

The failure turned out to be a broken piston. It's a pretty rare failure but I have seen pistons mysteriously let go. Once the piston went, the rod had a g--damn fiesta in there and you see what happened. I've got better pictures for later.
For now, off to the track!

-Sean

[paul kersey]

okay?

[Clifford]

I <3ed that car in Ocala.

[satanshatch]

Originally posted by dr. octogon
imagine that. Fuck I was going to say the SAME thing..

Hell, I wanted it to happen at DD4. That thing sounds HORRIBLE. Not to mention BMW engines DO NOT boost well, and last.

[Slash]

au contraire...

I think it sounds wonderful....

[buck19]

Originally posted by Slash
au contraire...

I think it sounds wonderful....

hell yeah that thing was badass. you can only beat on a motor with so much power for so long. even ask mattback. ask him what happened to the enjuku car a day before bristol. check out some of their videos. it seems like they really dont give a shit about the motor, which makes the show that much greater.

[Pineapple]

Originally posted by buck19
hell yeah that thing was badass. you can only beat on a motor with so much power for so long. even ask mattback. ask him what happened to the enjuku car a day before bristol. check out some of their videos. it seems like they really dont give a shit about the motor, which makes the show that much greater.
+1 so true

[sucio]

hey maybe it was the fact that it just sat at the rev limiter the whole time..what a concept..sit at rev limiter blow engine ..rinse repeat

[dan]

cheap, reliable, fast.....PICK ONLY TWO!

welcome to racing.

that car sounded pretty good when i saw it. inline 6's are so smooth. but its no surprise being balls to the wall at every event with a non-factory boosted motor thats not built to support it.

[Clifford]

Originally posted by dan
cheap, reliable, fast.....PICK ONLY TWO!



So true.

I loved the sound of that car, it was a beast! But if you know what you're doing, you know its going to give in sooner or later.

[teddy]

Originally posted by dan
cheap, reliable, fast.....PICK ONLY TWO!



haha

best qoute ever

[marksaccord95]

looks like it was over revved (imagine that) broke the rocker which stuck a valve, which the pistion didnt like and punched the rod thru the block

[Laurentz]

Originally posted by FreeThinker
And as far as '...only a matter of time' , Hrmmm, maybe you are alluding to the fact that the car burned oil at Ocala.

The reason it burned oil was because of a PCV valve that vents to the exhaust to create vacuum in the crankcase. Oil was sometimes able to get up the tube and then down into the hot exhaust and you know how it goes from there. Might explain how it magically blew an engine like 12 times at Ocala and then came back to life each time....

The car never stopped burning oil. It burnt oil at homestead a long ass time ago. And they couldn't fix the problem with all that time?

[drumma022]

Originally posted by Laurentz
The car never stopped burning oil. It burnt oil at homestead a long ass time ago. And they couldn't fix the problem with all that time?

it's alot easier to play sideline mechanic than it is to run your own business, and get more acquainted to the usa and what not, and organize drift events, and keep the car running. finding out what the problem was was probably half the battle.

the fact of the matter is, they had it back together and running again for sunday's event. that means that they were at least prepared for the inevitable.

lets keep the deragatory comments to a minimum if our own cars don't run.

[buck19]

Originally posted by drumma022
it's alot easier to play sideline mechanic than it is to run your own business, and get more acquainted to the usa and what not, and organize drift events, and keep the car running. finding out what the problem was was probably half the battle.

the fact of the matter is, they had it back together and running again for sunday's event. that means that they were at least prepared for the inevitable.

lets keep the deragatory comments to a minimum if our own cars don't run.

+1

look at a lot of the race teams out there that have a $500,000 car and spend $250,000 on a race and blow a $90,000 engine. It sure as hell is fast, but wasnt reliable that day, so i guess it was a cheap motor.

When you beat on something every god damn weekend sat and sun, and im sure just about every other weekday, something will break unless you rebuild the motor every damn week and put new rods, pistons, crank, etc. in it. seriously you cant build something and expect it to last forever even if you spent a lot of money and had and expensive setup. shit breaks. look at the space shuttle, look at top fuel drag cars. things taking to the extremes dont last.

[Laurentz]

8 months is a long time, business or not.

[shiny suit man]

First of the car engine had 248 000 miles on it being turbo charged about 70 000 miles out of it. So I would say that it lasted pretty well, with STOCK INTERNALS. We knew what the problem was all along but never had the time to fix it believe it or not. PCV valve sucking the oil in to the exhaust. That causes absolutely no problems with driveability or to the engine life, had we tought that it was a problem we would have fixed it. As we did the night the engine blew it wasn't smoking at all, because of the catch can. Also at the Dec. 5th did you see any smoke from the pipe?
Anyway we worked trough the night to rebuild the head and get the new block in and had the car running the next morning. Did it all in 10 hours including driving from Hialeah speedway to the shop and back. BMW engines don't work on boost HAHAHAHA thats funny check out these clips 1033 hp street legal BMW (http://www.vsmotor.no/filmer.html) Also Have a friend who runs the E-30 M3 motor on 2002 ti on the drag with 1400 hp out of 2.3 litre engine 7 sec quarter. I quess that doesn't work.

[satanshatch]

Oh I never said there arent BMW engines out there that arent boosted. Im a former BMW owner. I KNOW !~
However you cant slap a turbo kit on a fairly stock BMW and expect it to last. Especially while lifting the head ! :lol:
1400 Hp :eek: wow Impressive, however I dont always believe what I read on the internet either. Im almost willing to bet your buddy has a BUILT if not sleeved etc E30 M motor.
Then again that proves my point of a stock BMW motor NOT taking a beating like that.

[s14 powered]

Originally posted by shiny suit man
F Also Have a friend who runs the E-30 M3 motor on 2002 ti on the drag with 1400 hp out of 2.3 litre engine 7 sec quarter. I quess that doesn't work.

:serious: :bsflag:

I HIGHLY doubt that he's getting 1400hp out of an s14, espically one fitted in a 2002. The M12/M13 engine BMW used in formula 1, which is a close cousin to the s14, didn't even make that much power.

Engine: 4-cylinder, turbocharged M12/13 72 degree left
Valve linkage: DOHC
Displacement: 1499 cc
Bore x stroke: 89.2 mm x 60 mm
Power output: 800 horsepower at 10,500 rpm
The engine, when it was finally completed, ran 62.5psi of boost for races, and 85psi for qualifying. The racing fuel used a mixture of 84% toluene which has an octane rating of 114.

http://www.azbmw.org/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10011/m13.jpg


Maybe he has a boosted M10 in there, either way he's not making 1400hp. And even if he was doubt he could get it to the ground well enough, in a 2002, to make a 7sec quater mile pass...

[Matt Vassallo]

so what you're saying is a motor designed to run endurance Formula 1 engines made 800hp for hours on end, an engine couldn't make more than that for 7 secones at a time?

[s14 powered]

Originally posted by Ostrich
so what you're saying is a motor designed to run endurance Formula 1 engines made 800hp for hours on end, an engine couldn't make more than that for 7 secones at a time?

I'm not saying its impossible, just very very unlikely, and would cost more money that its worth. That engine didn't even make that much power in qualifying trim, when it only had to last a couple minutes. Which isn't even the engine claimed the be in that car.

Theres a guy running around with a 1000+hp 2002, but it doesn't have an s14(the egine out of an e30 m3), it has an M10 in it.

[Matt Vassallo]

more than likely they aren't sure what motor they have in it

[shiny suit man]

Originally posted by s14 powered
:serious: :bsflag:

I HIGHLY doubt that he's getting 1400hp out of an s14, espically one fitted in a 2002. The M12/M13 engine BMW used in formula 1, which is a close cousin to the s14, didn't even make that much power.

Engine: 4-cylinder, turbocharged M12/13 72 degree left
Valve linkage: DOHC
Displacement: 1499 cc
Bore x stroke: 89.2 mm x 60 mm
Power output: 800 horsepower at 10,500 rpm
The engine, when it was finally completed, ran 62.5psi of boost for races, and 85psi for qualifying. The racing fuel used a mixture of 84% toluene which has an octane rating of 114.

http://www.azbmw.org/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/10011/m13.jpg


Maybe he has a boosted M10 in there, either way he's not making 1400hp. And even if he was doubt he could get it to the ground well enough, in a 2002, to make a 7sec quater mile pass...
get your facts right
Currently the longest-serving BMW employee, Rosche has been called "the Motor Pope" in the German enthusiast press, "BMW's Engine Maestro" in this country, and "Nocken Paule, "or "Camshaft Paul," by his friends. The self-effacing Rosche has been responsible for the development of every M engine, the championship-winning Formula 2 and 3 motors, and touring car powerplants. His crowning achievement was the 1.4-liter, four-cylinder turbocharged engine (delivering 1,300 HP!) that powered Nelson Piquet to the 1983 World Driving Championship. Rosche's Vl2 creations have won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1995 (McLaren) and 1999-when the factory won first overall.

[s14 powered]

Originally posted by shiny suit man
get your facts right
Currently the longest-serving BMW employee, Rosche has been called "the Motor Pope" in the German enthusiast press, "BMW's Engine Maestro" in this country, and "Nocken Paule, "or "Camshaft Paul," by his friends. The self-effacing Rosche has been responsible for the development of every M engine, the championship-winning Formula 2 and 3 motors, and touring car powerplants. His crowning achievement was the 1.4-liter, four-cylinder turbocharged engine (delivering 1,300 HP!) that powered Nelson Piquet to the 1983 World Driving Championship. Rosche's Vl2 creations have won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 1995 (McLaren) and 1999-when the factory won first overall.

The specs for the engine i posted are correct, as is what you posted. I still doubt your friend has a 1400hp s14 though....

[FreeThinker]

So what if it is or isn't. The BMW M10 M12 M30 S14 and S38 motors are all based on the same architecture, and they clearly take boost very well. Your doubt means nothing. The car exists and somewhere in the overwhleming mass of files I have on this computer I have some videos of it or maybe it's another car very similar. The bottom line is these guys from northern Europe definitely know their shit. The unavailability of parts for them means they have to learn everything on their own, do their own reasearch and usually custom build their own parts (such as the pistons in the Ter-Tech car).

The BMW 4cyl F1 motor was based on the BMW 1602 M10 engine. A really interesting fact is that BMW went through junkyards in Germany looking for highly used 1602 (M10) engines in good condition and built the F1 motors with those blocks. In race useage the engines had from 600-800hp (drivers actually had a manual boost controller with a large dial knob in the cockpit). But in qualifying they apparently would turn the boost up to 1100hp or more. When the engine finally hit the dyno, Rosche decided to see what it would take and it quickly maxed out the dyno at reportedly 1300hp.


-Sean


The design was the basis for the S14 motor. The S14 engine actually looks very similar to the F1 engine except that the intake and exhaust are flipped.

[FreeThinker]

Here's some more info:

http://www.320i.com/turbocharging.htm

-Sean

[s14 powered]

Originally posted by FreeThinker

The BMW 4cyl F1 motor was based on the BMW 1602 M10 engine. A really interesting fact is that BMW went through junkyards in Germany looking for highly used 1602 (M10) engines in good condition and built the F1 motors with those blocks. In race useage the engines had from 600-800hp (drivers actually had a manual boost controller with a large dial knob in the cockpit). But in qualifying they apparently would turn the boost up to 1100hp or more. When the engine finally hit the dyno, Rosche decided to see what it would take and it quickly maxed out the dyno at reportedly 1300hp.


-Sean


The design was the basis for the S14 motor. The S14 engine actually looks very similar to the F1 engine except that the intake and exhaust are flipped.


From what I understand they tried to find engines with around 50,000 miles on them, and sometimes would even store them outside. They considered the blocks to be "seasoned". I'm not doubting that those engines can make that much power, or that BMW engines can handle boost. I just don't think an s14 is making it. I also think I misinterpreted what you said, when you said you had a friend with that car, I figured you meant state side, and thought they had an s14 in there car....sorry about the misunderstanding....

The s14 and all of its cousins are great engines I am in no way doubting that...

[FreeThinker]

No problem here. I'm pretty good friends with Harri from Ter-Tech. There are 2 or 3 people who post under 'shiny suit man' fro Ter-Tech.

He personally knows most of the people who have fast cars in those Nordic countries.

I think the car he is referring to actually has an M10 block with S14 head. Harri was under the impression it was totally S14 though. Either way the S14 alone can make over 800. The two cars I have seen are a yellow 2002 and a blue something with an engine that definitely has an S14 head but I have no idea on the block.

-Sean

[FreeThinker]

So I would say that it lasted pretty well, with STOCK INTERNALS.

Since I mentioned that it had custom pistons I should clarify a little, they were custom machined stock 535i pistons made in Finland, and they weren't done 100% properly either.

-Sean

[e30 gangsta]

man hanging out with the ter tech guys... i know they know there stuff.... but they do beat the shit out of that motor....