What's up with drifters at autocrosses?

[jaball77]

Why do drifters feel they have to show up at autocrosses? I thought they were all rebel NiGhT KiDz that did their thing on Da StReEtZ!

Don't get me wrong... I'm all for drifting. Watching Todd's S2k do a little dorifto through the loop was pretty damn cool... When done by skilled drivers it's cool to watch and all, but come on. If you can't control your drift to begin with, an autox course isn't a great place to learn... Especially at Gainesville, which isn't all that wide or grippy to begin with...

Nothing like cleaning up after a certain wannabe Iketani that wipes out a wall of cones and tracks dirt into the racing line to engender good will between drifters and autocrossers! Thanks, fella!

Did anyone get the boot? I had to leave after I worked the 2nd group...


Jason B (Not Minehart!)
#877 GS

[steve]

if the track wasn't so hot and slippery even the fwd guys were spinning out

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by jaball77
Why do drifters feel they have to show up at autocrosses? I thought they were all rebel NiGhT KiDz that did their thing on Da StReEtZ!

When done by skilled drivers it's cool to watch and all, but come on. If you can't control your drift to begin with, an autox course isn't a great place to learn... Especially at Gainesville, which isn't all that wide or grippy to begin with...

Nothing like cleaning up after a certain wannabe Iketani that wipes out a wall of cones and tracks dirt into the racing line to engender good will between drifters and autocrossers! Thanks, fella!

Did anyone get the boot? I had to leave after I worked the 2nd group...


Jason B (Not Minehart!)
#877 GS


how about you eat my ass. I tried to go grip autocross but gainesville has gotten so bad it was impossible in my corolla. I controlled every slide i had except for 2 times on the last gate, but when i spun those 2 times i didnt hit any cones, so dont talk about being "in control"... please. When i did hit cones it was pointless ass braking cones that shouldnt be there anyway. ALSO the other 5-6 times ive been to gainesville it was virtually all open road course, in which i was going to drift and not worry about cones, but since it was setup like a martins event, i didnt go all out, which is why you didnt see my whiping out gates and mini chicago boxes bc i was CONTROLLED SLIDING THRU THEM. All in all I hit less cones drifting the whole course then most people did trying to autocross it. Ive been autcrossing for about 5-6 years and finish no less then 4th in points for my class every year, with running less events then people finishing in front of me, so dont even try to get this into a 'you cant drive' matter, and if you want vouchers for my ability to drift, ill be more then happy to shut you up, so stop bitching, i wanted to autocross my car 1 time to see what its like, so next time you wont have to get your panties in a wad :roll: jesus....

[jaball77]

how about you eat my ass. I tried to go grip autocross but gainesville has gotten so bad it was impossible in my corolla. I controlled every slide i had except for 2 times on the last gate, but when i spun those 2 times i didnt hit any cones, so dont talk about being "in control"... please. When i did hit cones it was pointless ass braking cones that shouldnt be there anyway. ALSO the other 5-6 times ive been to gainesville it was virtually all open road course, in which i was going to drift and not worry about cones, but since it was setup like a martins event, i didnt go all out, which is why you didnt see my whiping out gates and mini chicago boxes bc i was CONTROLLED SLIDING THRU THEM. All in all I hit less cones drifting the whole course then most people did trying to autocross it. Ive been autcrossing for about 5-6 years and finish no less then 4th in points for my class every year, with running less events then people finishing in front of me, so dont even try to get this into a 'you cant drive' matter, and if you want vouchers for my ability to drift, ill be more then happy to shut you up, so stop bitching, i wanted to autocross my car 1 time to see what its like, so next time you wont have to get your panties in a wad jesus....

Wow, man. You need some Paxil or something.

I didn't say anything about you specifically. The Initial D reference was to Iketani, who drives an S13, not an 86.

I'm just saying that it's disrespectful to the Solo2 crowd to mess up the course just so a drifter can have fun.

And if I ever need you to shut me up, I'll let you know.

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
how about you eat my ass. I tried to go grip autocross but gainesville has gotten so bad it was impossible in my corolla.

Sounds like you need a novice instructor to show you how to "grip" drive. ;)


just playing around, but if you want someone to show you that it CAN be done, come find me next time.:)

[OversteerS2K]

Those "pointless" cones that "shouldn't even be there" were for people in RWD's who cooked their entry and couldn't hold the back end. It's a discourager for letting your rears dig into the dirt and bringing the crap back on the line. I figured once someone whacked a row of four the first time than just maybe you'd go into it a little slower the next....guess I was wrong. There is little grip to begin with and the extra dirt tracked out makes it a fucking nightmare. Sorry bub, it wasn't a drift course but I'm sure you found the few spots that were still driftable (I know I did on the rocks my car was wearing).

As for trying to "grip"...you know as well as we do that you have suspension and air-pressure adjustments that could have been made to keep the rear more planted. I don't care about people drifting the course - let 'em have fun but once you're off in the dirt, stay off in the dirt.

I was tring to stick in the chicane but it just didn't so I ended up doing a 1st-2nd drift all the way through. I think I got it right once and hopped it out about 45* on the 2nd gear clutch release. It was fun but definitely the slow way through. In the fun runs I looped it doing the same thing and stayed on the gas ending up backwards and spraying dirt - guess I'm guilty too but the day was done.

[Leonard]

Originally posted by jaball77
Wow, man. You need some Paxil or something.

I didn't say anything about you specifically. The Initial D reference was to Iketani, who drives an S13, not an 86.

I'm just saying that it's disrespectful to the Solo2 crowd to mess up the course just so a drifter can have fun.

And if I ever need you to shut me up, I'll let you know.


Don't pay too much attention to Mark. He's prone to temper tantrums. You should have seen him at FSF when I told him he couldn't have his NOS on site....

[neurovish]

'Cause they're disrespectful kids with no self-control?
There really aren't enough legal drift events, so an autox is the next best thing?
Most really aren't "rebel NiGhT KiDz that (do) their thing on Da StReEtZ", so an autox is their only venue most of the time?
Because they're "rebel NiGhT KiDz that (do) their thing on Da StReEtZ", so they have no skills on a course they didn't make up in an empty parking lot?
The ones who think they're "rebel NiGhT KiDz that (do) their thing on Da StReEtZ" are really powering over after making a right turn in the rain and hoping they don't hit something, so they're convinced they are a lot better drivers than they really are?
Why the hell not, seat time is seat time and I've already tanked this run cause of hitting that cone in the 1st slalom?
<see above>......cause of drifting the hell out of that first turn?
Holy crap! Who swapped my rear tires for New Folgers Crystals!?

[marksaccord95]

if u dont want me to blow up on you then dont start some stupid ass post trying to make people that drift look like tards. we dont have many venues to go to, LEGAL drift events are few and far between, so if i feel like i want to go to an autocross to drift, then i will go. bottom line, the car had azenis' up front and bald fentura supersports (440 treadwear) in the rear, so slick and hard tires plus a slick surface sucked. could i set it up a little better for grip? sure, but i wanted to have fun and I knew with my setup i had on i wasnt going to be competitive.

oversteerS2k- if i had my WRX, i would have had a blast at that course, but i wasnt, and thought it would be like most G'ville events are.... open course..... which i could drift without making people upset, it wasnt, oh well i wasnt going to let it ruin my $25. it would be cool if on the CFR site (or here) they could put the course maps up (like they use to) before the events day so things like this could be avoided, bc if i had the map before i went, i wouldnt have gone with my corolla, yet i would have with my WRX. then maybe on a more open course with larger turns, i would take my corolla, etc.

also i dropped 1 tire on 2 occasions, i never spun out in the dirt.

[jaball77]

if u dont want me to blow up on you then dont start some stupid ass post trying to make people that drift look like tards. we dont have many venues to go to, LEGAL drift events are few and far between, so if i feel like i want to go to an autocross to drift, then i will go. bottom line, the car had azenis' up front and bald fentura supersports (440 treadwear) in the rear, so slick and hard tires plus a slick surface sucked. could i set it up a little better for grip? sure, but i wanted to have fun and I knew with my setup i had on i wasnt going to be competitive.

Look, man. You're getting all bent out of shape here, and for what? Because I asked a question and posted my take on some things that happened on Sunday? Should I check with you before I post my opinion on something to make sure it's okay?

All I'm sayin' is that it's like entering a speed-skating event because you wanna get out there and do some ice dancing. :D

[Leonard]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
it would be cool if on the CFR site (or here) they could put the course maps up (like they use to) before the events day so things like this could be avoided, bc if i had the map before i... blah blah blah

step up and make it happen mark. if not, cut the blah blah blah. :jerkoff:

[steve]

Originally posted by jaball77
Wow, man. You need some Paxil or something.

I didn't say anything about you specifically. The Initial D reference was to Iketani, who drives an S13, not an 86.

I'm just saying that it's disrespectful to the Solo2 crowd to mess up the course just so a drifter can have fun.

And if I ever need you to shut me up, I'll let you know.

hey asshole i only hit 5 cones all day and from what i saw you hit cones to so shut the fuck up

[jaball77]

Originally posted by steve
hey asshole i only hit 5 cones all day and from what i saw you hit cones to so shut the fuck up

Jeez, what's with the drift rage? Are you guys all on 'roids or something?! :roll:

Yeah, I hit some cones. Several, in fact. But you know what? I hit them because I was trying to get fast times. Not because I was car-dancing on a tight autocross course.

[steve]

so your saying powering out of a turn isn't trying to get farster times?

[Loren]

Okay, okay... I don't mind the discussion just tone it down. There might be more to be said here, but if it continues with the current level of hostility I'll have to lock the thread.

My take as an autocross organizer is that some drifting is inherent in autocross. Depending on the course and what you drive, you might end up drifting as you explore the limits of your car. There may even be instances when a properly executed drift IS the fast way around... though that's not often.

I don't mind a driver "wasting" one or more of his runs in the pursuit of some fun drifts rather than a fast time as long as he can do so without wiping out the course, tearing up the facility (grass in this case), or putting anyone (including himself) in danger. Drifters need to be aware that an autocross course was designed with a certain style of driving in mind, it was designed to be safe when driven that way.

There may be situations (Neurovish fell victim to this once) where you could drift through a sequence and end up sliding sideways through a section of course that the designers (and safety stewards) intended/expected you to be on the brakes slowing down. Even though the driver may feel as if they are fully in control of the drift, the people running the event could see them sliding in a direction they never intended them to go! Safety being our primary concern, we're likely to talk to you about it. Depending on how scary it looked to us, we might even get upset about it.

So drifters, please remember that an autocross is NOT a drift event. Most of us will accept a little bit of drifting, but it really should be more "incidental" than "purposeful". The object of autocross is to finish with the fastest possible time. (why, some might even call it a... race) If that's not why you came, perhaps you should save your tires for the next drift event?

And autocrossers, recognize that there are a fair number of avid drifters who also enjoy "gripping it up" with us at an autocross. (and some of them are quite good at it) Try not to stereotype them all to their lowest level. Try to help the ones who take a little too much drift to an autocross find a better balance.

Look at it this way... we all have a love for getting out there and flogging our cars to the best of our ability. The difference is that autocrossers like to creep up on the limits of the car from the controlled side. Drifters like to creep down to the limits of the car from the out-of-control side!

Anyway, enough of the threats and name calling.

[OversteerS2K]

I should have had a course map on-line prior to the event but was in Topeka autocrossing. Sorry. All I'm saying is that even with rocks on the rear you could have made sway bar, shock?, and pressure adjustments...I could give a shit either way. I didn't have to chase any cones and had a fun day. But, yes a Rex would have been more fun on that course.

MSCC's "Mini-Prix" should be a good drift friendly course (for a 24' wide off camber asphalt suface, anyhow). The executive board is comprised of mainly Z06 drivers and they're afraid of any precision elements. I ran in 3rd gear in their 1st event there this year. I'd think any and all drifters would have fun there. As a matter of fact I don't care for the club at all so over run their asses :lol: .

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by Leonard
step up and make it happen mark. if not, cut the blah blah blah. :jerkoff:

the fuck am i suppose to do leonard? its like i design courses, if someone wants to email me a map they are using for an event to host, id be MORE THEN HAPPY TO.

[marksaccord95]

excellent put loren. the fact of the matter is, i could have drifted alot harder and comboed more areas if i wanted, but i kept it limited bc i didnt want to destroy the course and go spinning off in the grass..... and i didnt...... and niether did the other person that was drifting the event (steve)

Originally posted by Loren
Okay, okay... I don't mind the discussion just tone it down. There might be more to be said here, but if it continues with the current level of hostility I'll have to lock the thread.

My take as an autocross organizer is that some drifting is inherent in autocross. Depending on the course and what you drive, you might end up drifting as you explore the limits of your car. There may even be instances when a properly executed drift IS the fast way around... though that's not often.

I don't mind a driver "wasting" one or more of his runs in the pursuit of some fun drifts rather than a fast time as long as he can do so without wiping out the course, tearing up the facility (grass in this case), or putting anyone (including himself) in danger. Drifters need to be aware that an autocross course was designed with a certain style of driving in mind, it was designed to be safe when driven that way.

There may be situations (Neurovish fell victim to this once) where you could drift through a sequence and end up sliding sideways through a section of course that the designers (and safety stewards) intended/expected you to be on the brakes slowing down. Even though the driver may feel as if they are fully in control of the drift, the people running the event could see them sliding in a direction they never intended them to go! Safety being our primary concern, we're likely to talk to you about it. Depending on how scary it looked to us, we might even get upset about it.

So drifters, please remember that an autocross is NOT a drift event. Most of us will accept a little bit of drifting, but it really should be more "incidental" than "purposeful". The object of autocross is to finish with the fastest possible time. (why, some might even call it a... race) If that's not why you came, perhaps you should save your tires for the next drift event?

And autocrossers, recognize that there are a fair number of avid drifters who also enjoy "gripping it up" with us at an autocross. (and some of them are quite good at it) Try not to stereotype them all to their lowest level. Try to help the ones who take a little too much drift to an autocross find a better balance.

Look at it this way... we all have a love for getting out there and flogging our cars to the best of our ability. The difference is that autocrossers like to creep up on the limits of the car from the controlled side. Drifters like to creep down to the limits of the car from the out-of-control side!

Anyway, enough of the threats and name calling.

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by OversteerS2K
I should have had a course map on-line prior to the event but was in Topeka autocrossing. Sorry. All I'm saying is that even with rocks on the rear you could have made sway bar, shock?, and pressure adjustments...I could give a shit either way. I didn't have to chase any cones and had a fun day. But, yes a Rex would have been more fun on that course.

MSCC's "Mini-Prix" should be a good drift friendly course (for a 24' wide off camber asphalt suface, anyhow). The executive board is comprised of mainly Z06 drivers and they're afraid of any precision elements. I ran in 3rd gear in their 1st event there this year. I'd think any and all drifters would have fun there. As a matter of fact I don't care for the club at all so over run their asses :lol: .

never heard of the MSCC events? link?

[jaball77]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
excellent put loren. the fact of the matter is, i could have drifted alot harder and comboed more areas if i wanted, but i kept it limited bc i didnt want to destroy the course and go spinning off in the grass..... and i didnt...... and niether did the other person that was drifting the event (steve)

I guess you're right. It could have been worse... One little wall of cones isn't THAT big a deal. And I'm glad nobody ended up in the drink!

All I'm saying is that it's kind of annoying to the course workers at best, and could be damaging to our relationship with GIR at worst.

I'm sorry that there aren't many sanctioned drift events, but you have to have a little respect the events you're crashing. :-)

[Leonard]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
the fuck am i suppose to do leonard? its like i design courses, if someone wants to email me a map they are using for an event to host, id be MORE THEN HAPPY TO.


Mark, my point was that all you were doing was complaining about what you think everyone else (who is putting in more effort than you) isn't doing right when you are doing the minimum required to attend an event.

You want things to be different/better? Step up and volunteer.

You want autox events to be more drift friendly? Figure out how to get the lowest denomenator drifter to respect the site. That's not so simple because even sponsored drifters seem to think they're too good for the rules. (http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144337)

And if you guys don't want to play by the rules, that's fine too. Find your own sites and host your own events. I'm all for that. At least you (collective you referring to drifters that don't respect the rules of the site) won't fuck it up for everyone else.

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by jaball77
I guess you're right. It could have been worse... One little wall of cones isn't THAT big a deal. And I'm glad nobody ended up in the drink!

All I'm saying is that it's kind of annoying to the course workers at best, and could be damaging to our relationship with GIR at worst.

I'm sorry that there aren't many sanctioned drift events, but you have to have a little respect the events you're crashing. :-)


GIR wouldnt give a damn as long as ure not spinning out in their grass. i do have respect for the events, which is why i was taking it easy. i could have come on the back decreasing radius, lift throttle over steered, took out all those gates back there but would have had a bad ass drift, but i didnt do shit like that, i went thru the gates, some sideways, but without taking them out.

come out to DDAY3 if u wanna see me really drift, then ull realize what we were doing at the event was just trying to have fun, but respectful at the same time.

[Chin]

Some of you autoXers seem to think drifting is like a plauge, its simply a different driving style, seem out of control? Yes, but many of us got our roots at autoX, like me. I feel its required to learn how to drive at the limit, before you drive past it. On certin occations its the only safe option, otherwise we would understeer off the course, causing the whole timing process to slow down. One time I was at Sunriders for the "watercross" basicly 3 laps on a course in the rain, and well all I could manage was sliding. But I did it safely and they didnt have any problems with it.

So yes we are out there, but we are avid motorsports enthusist, like you guys. Not just some punks who try to distroy whatever venues come near us. And no most of us try and stay off the streets, there are to many cops around to try and do that sort of thing. As wreakless as drifting might seem we are careful (atleast the ones that are smart) where we do our sport. Autocrosses give us a safe venus to pratice our sports.

Drifters who come out to autocrosses know how much it means to have a safe place to go. And they spent good money on it, so they wont just tear the place down, aslong as its safe, which most drifters are (that come out to the autoX) the wreakless drifters dont waste there time or money to go to a safe place.

All im saying is just dont place all drifters in the same barn, just like I dont place all people with civics in the same bin.

[Loren]

I still wanna be like Chin when I grow up.

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by Chin180sx
Some of you autoXers seem to think drifting is like a plauge, its simply a different driving style, seem out of control? Yes, but many of us got our roots at autoX, like me. I feel its required to learn how to drive at the limit, before you drive past it. On certin occations its the only safe option, otherwise we would understeer off the course, causing the whole timing process to slow down. One time I was at Sunriders for the "watercross" basicly 3 laps on a course in the rain, and well all I could manage was sliding. But I did it safely and they didnt have any problems with it.

So yes we are out there, but we are avid motorsports enthusist, like you guys. Not just some punks who try to distroy whatever venues come near us. And no most of us try and stay off the streets, there are to many cops around to try and do that sort of thing. As wreakless as drifting might seem we are careful (atleast the ones that are smart) where we do our sport. Autocrosses give us a safe venus to pratice our sports.

Drifters who come out to autocrosses know how much it means to have a safe place to go. And they spent good money on it, so they wont just tear the place down, aslong as its safe, which most drifters are (that come out to the autoX) the wreakless drifters dont waste there time or money to go to a safe place.

All im saying is just dont place all drifters in the same barn, just like I dont place all people with civics in the same bin.

+1 million

[OversteerS2K]

www.martinsportscarclub.com (http://www.martinsportscarclub.com)

I think it's sometime in Oct. @ GIR and they generally have on-line registration for the GIR events. It's not cheap ($40 last time) but it seems like a drift course to me, at least as much as the surface allows. They'll probably have a course map posted on-line prior to the event - check their forum, there is a link on the home page.

[marksaccord95]

im a retard, i know about martins, just the abbreviation didnt click

[neurovish]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
oversteerS2k- if i had my WRX, i would have had a blast at that course, but i wasnt, and thought it would be like most G'ville events are.... open course..... which i could drift without making people upset, it wasnt,

When was the last time SCCA ran an event at GIR that was "open course"?
Whenever I've ran their events there (which would be a majority of them in the past year or so) it looked like somebody blew up a cone factory.

Originally posted by marksaccord95
GIR wouldnt give a damn as long as ure not spinning out in their grass.

Actually, they would...just ask Jay about that.

[marksaccord95]

that was my 1st autocross this season since ive been busy, but all last season was vurtually an open course with a few gates.

[OversteerS2K]

I don't know how many times I've had to go through this same speal....but here we go again: "blew up a cone factory", yada, yada - after several cars went in the water last year and one even into the trees, prior to that, there is an emphasis on safety for GIR courses. I like wide open. The funnest event I've had @ GIR was Martin's "Mini-Prix" where I hit 90+ on the back stretch. Even their State Championship course last fall was pretty quick. The problem there is that they answer to a constantly variable set of rules and can change them on a whim. We have to go by the SCCA's guidelines for course design and answer to a Safety Steward who does take at least one run with the course designer or event chair before approving the course. That S.S. is responsible for the safety of everyone at the site (while driving, working, or spectating) as well as the property. If Jesse, Jim, or myself went out there and set up a ten cone Mach 1 course it'd just be a huge delay as we added enough tight elements to make the course approvable. An autocross shouldn't go beyond normal highway speeds. Well, for me that's 95 but for most of the country that's 55-70. It's also not supposed to go beyond 45 in the corners. And this is all for the best prepared Stock and S.P. cars. I know I was hitting 65 on street tires in two spots and imagine that the FFR (AP) car was 80+. That's about as fast as it can safely be done there, at least under the SCCA's guidelines. Beyond the safety issue you have the fact that a Solo 2 course should NOT reward high horsepower over manuverability. From SS to HS there should be as level of a playing field as possible. You can't create drag strip starts and quick exit corners that just lead into an eigth mile straight and make it fair to anyone shy of 300 Hp.

What you guys are looking for is a Solo1 or Solo Trials event. CFR hosted one last year and only like 33 drivers showed up. I couldn't go w/o a $800 roll cage or a $2,700 hard top or I would have been there. It sounded like a blast. But, with the poor attendance that means there won't be one this year at all since they probably didn't break even for the site rental. Next year the Club Racing arm will take over the Solo 1's & Solo Trials and in this region that basically says that those events will die out.

Now I'm not trying to be a dick here (although with the attitudes and hostitlity on this board I'll, no doubt, get flamed) but the site isn't that much to rent and there is a genuine interest for higher speed and/or driftable courses. Round up ten to twenty of your buddies and have at it. You only need a stop watch - since cones on course are so heinous. I think I'd even go if we could get it down to less than $75 each. The S2000 wants to drift in every situation anyhow - now controlling it is the problem...

[marksaccord95]

why would u get flammed for that?

id be down for a GIR whatever day, i have already contacted them about a drift event and their only concern was the grass, so youd have to only invite people that are skilled enough not to do that.

[krekavhts]

just wanted to chime in on last years GIR events. I did all of them and none of them were wide open. GIR presents big design problems in the fact that it can allow for a lot of speed and huge off-camber/on-camber cornering changes. most people have never felt what that can do to a car at high speed.

GIR is definately the most speed friendly course I have ran in FL but never wide open through the corners and never is drifting the fastest or safest way around. i don't think Solo2 or autox people in general have a problem with drifting. i just think it doesn't really apply to bashing their course designs and placement of cones. we don't design to drift, we design to go fast in the most efficient use of all posible traction and variables. drifting is not that and never will be, its a skill sport that relies on incredible amounts of car control and is not better nor worse than autox or any other form of motor sport. but like all other forms of motor sport our design for tracks doesn't work for your sport. IE drag racing on a road coarse, doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

so there is no need for the attitude nor the explatives, that isn't going to get you anywhere with anyone who runs these events.

[marksaccord95]

mmm..... last season 4-5 of the events i went to just at GIR were 80% open turn road courses. all the radius turns were open and some straights, the other straights had like 1 or 2 gates and the slalom is always on the same place on the near side straight before the finish.

im not bashing the design, i said i just wish i knew about the design prior and would have brought my WRX instead since it was a more technical layout

[Mars_302]

off topic, my only complaint was lack of runs we got. 3rd run was my only clean run and I was ready to try adn work in some speed more and brake later, but it was over with.

I guess thats what happens we you start late and have 75 cars.

[Sam_I_am]

yea definately, i wish we had more runs esp since many people drove from far places to run at g ville.

[Mike]

Mark and steve still paid their money, i mean fuck we all go out to hav fun, lt thm have their fucking fun.

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by Sam_I_am
yea definately, i wish we had more runs esp since many people drove from far places to run at g ville.

hahahaha...


I just drove to Kansas for a week for 6 runs over 2 days.

[Lola56]

Mark and steve still paid their money, i mean fuck we all go out to hav fun, lt thm have their fucking fun.

Wow, what an intelligent statement.

[Leonard]

This entire thing is absurd.

A drifter goes to an autox and is angry because when they got there, they didn't find a course layed out for drifting.

It's simple.

You want to autox: go to an autox.
You want to drift: go to a drift event.

Going to the wrong one and being mad about what you found is like going into a womans restroom and being pissed off because there isn't a urinal.

[neurovish]

Originally posted by OversteerS2K
<insert rant>

I wasn't criticizing the course designs or complaining about the cones, just stating there's a lot and contrasting that with a more open layout ( the mscc event I did there used maybe 10 cones? ). I expect to see cones at an autox....so should everybody else, it's not a hpde.

[OversteerS2K]

1) The site personnel let us in 40 minutes late
2) A person in the registration line stepped on an extension cord junction (that shouldn't have been there to begin with) and killed the power to the computers. The hunk of crap laptop used for registration didn't have a charged battery in it and ALL the info. entered up until that point was lost. That info had to be re-entered and cost a lot of time.
3) The novice walkthough took too long.
4) Assinging work/run groups took too long.

I think through those circumstances that we all lost a run. But for those who stayed we did get four fun runs on a faster course (pulled one cone from the finish slalom).


A just a parting thought ("Insert Rant!") for all of you complaining fucks: if you don't like how something is being done - IT IS A VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION. Want changes? Get your asses out there and make them! Every fucking event that's done has issues. Some are small and some are large but that's all that ever gets discussed post-event. I've not yet heard a thank you for spending more hours than anyone else on this shit. You can make a difference by helping. If you don't help than you really don't have a voice (unless asked). It's very frustrating to hear so many negatives after every event and the same people complaining.

Did anyone thank Jim Bledsoe for only getting a few hours sleep after driving back from Topeka alone and then going out to make sure that registration was handled properly just to come across the huge CPU headache described above? Did you know he didn't even drive in the event? Did anyone thank Brian Meyers for driving that hunk of shit truck all the way from Brooksville and forgoing runs in his kart? How about storing the eye sore in his side-yard? Many of you take these things for granted. I spent, at least, twelve hours on the Brooksville course and one guy said thanks.

If we were all getting paid and this organization was making some money than you'd have some rights. Your only rights, as of now, are to deal with it or help make it better. If you choose to just deal with it than you've also choosen to silence your own voice.

[Loren]

Now y'all have done pissed off Todd.

But even if you pull the angst out of that last post, he's got a VALID POINT. Nobody is making money on these autocross events (unless you go to an Evo school...), they are all organized and staffed by volunteers who are doing the best they can.

If YOU have a suggestion, please make it... but be ready to HELP implement your suggestions.

If you don't have the time or don't want to bother with helping... just shut up and drive!

[Loren]

PS: Thank you to all of the unsung volunteers who get things done!

[OversteerS2K]

And I didn't even want to be there, especially on street tires. I volunteered because Jim & Jesse were still going to be on the way home from Kansas. I would have much rather been in bed with my girlfriend than waking up @ 4:30. Maybe someone else would have stepped up and did a course? Maybe with less cones? I dunno....why risk an event being cancelled for that.

And for consideration by some whiners...that course in Gainesville had 195 pylons and the course was about 65 seconds for a GS car on R's. Each of the National Championship courses were well over 200 pylons w/o counting pointers and they were both under 55 seconds. Those weren't complained about. Want to see some cone-hell? Head out to an MSCC event or a CFR event at IRCC - holy sea of orange.

And some misquotes from earlier - the straightaway speeds (in the BEST prepared stock and S.P. cars) should not exceed the low 60's. We were well over that. 45 MPH corners, again we were well over that just on the 1st two sweepers. Imagine an ASP Z06...Anyhow, every rule was followed. If it wasn't for you than you may want to take up Solo 1's & HPDE's. I'm done with this thankless job and wouldn't doubt if Jesse will have had enough of this crap by year's end, too.

[Sam_I_am]

Originally posted by Sam_I_am
yea definately, i wish we had more runs esp since many people drove from far places to run at g ville.

i also wish i had a s2000

i mean dont' get me wrong i appreciate all the people who work on making autocrossing events possible.;)

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by Leonard
This entire thing is absurd.

A drifter goes to an autox and is angry because when they got there, they didn't find a course layed out for drifting.

It's simple.

You want to autox: go to an autox.
You want to drift: go to a drift event.

Going to the wrong one and being mad about what you found is like going into a womans restroom and being pissed off because there isn't a urinal.

jesus christ leonard where the hell did i say i was pissed bc the course wasnt setup for drift? go assume wrong in some other post.....

[mofugga]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
also i dropped 1 tire on 2 occasions, i never spun out in the dirt.
hmm, looks like 2 tires to me

http://www.tamparacing.com/gallery/data/3145/9289P9190384.JPG

[Loren]

Originally posted by mofugga
hmm, looks like 2 tires to me


BUSTED!

Seriously... at a facility like this, that's not cool. Keep it on the pavement. Autocross sites have been lost over silly stuff like this.

[marksaccord95]

Originally posted by mofugga
hmm, looks like 2 tires to me

http://www.tamparacing.com/gallery/data/3145/9289P9190384.JPG

if u would pay more attention to the pic, u would see the right rear is still on the pavement and the little bit of dirt ure seeing is from the left tire. if would have dropped both tires i would have spun out, i didnt, gotta love LSDs

if GIR had a problem with me sliding they would have said something to me, no one said shit.

thank you and please drive thru

[mofugga]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
thank you and please drive thru
hmm, sounds familiar... you work at mcdonalds on kennedy?

while the picture may only show 1 tire off, the other is near & may have dropped off after the pic was taken;) just cuz you weren't called for 2 off doesn't mean the other didn't drop;)


the thing that annoys me most about this thread is the fact that you kids have todd so pissed of he's not gonna do anymore courses it sounds. thanks a lot! i enjoyed most of your courses todd, please ignore these fools.


if "drift events" are so few and far between get off your asses & organize some:roll:

[Mars_302]

Acutally if both had dropped he woulda spun out. Which he didnt.......

And thanks todd. I kinda gathered time wise of events was due to lack of runs, so not blaming anybody.

[steve]

ok everyone in her is acting like a little bitch i liked the lay out of the course thanks to who ever did it i know it suck's setting it up i've done it befor it was the couse it's self i had a problem with it was to slick
this is the last time i'm going to say this i went there to grip thats i was at an auto x

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by marksaccord95
if u would pay more attention to the pic, u would see the right rear is still on the pavement and the little bit of dirt ure seeing is from the left tire. if would have dropped both tires i would have spun out, i didnt, gotta love LSDs

if GIR had a problem with me sliding they would have said something to me, no one said shit.

thank you and please drive thru

Look, you're acting like an arogant fuck. Drop the attitude, and just back off next time.

[krekavhts]

TODD you are the man, your courses are great and don't let a few whiny F*&('s get you upset. Ignore them and there ways. You, Jesse, Jim, Brian and so on make the events fun for many many people. If these people want to continue to complain just ignore the posts.

I can no longer attend CFR events. I have moved to the Northeast (boston). There are very few SCCA Autox's up here. The ones that do happen via the BMW/Porsche Club of Boston well they are few and far between. You kids and you damn complaining don't know what it is like to not have people around that truly care about the sport and work to make it happen. If you truly cared about your "drifting" you would go out and do what they do and make it happen. Unitil you do that go pass notes at highschool and stay away from the people who work their ass's off for the rest of us.

[flmcoupe]

I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to Todd, Jesse, Jim, Brian and everyone else involved at CFR! Everyone else quit bitching and start helping!

[jaball77]

I'm done with this thankless job and wouldn't doubt if Jesse will have had enough of this crap by year's end, too.

Well, I certainly hope you don't mean that! You'd both be sorely missed!

The average casual autocrosser has no idea what it takes to put on an event... All the computer drama, the truck drama, the site drama, the course drama, and all the effort and time it takes to set up a course that's both fun AND legal for SCCA rules...

All they know is they kept hitting cones and they only got 3 runs... :rolleyes:

Those of us that have been around for a while know appreciate what ALL of you do for us! Thanks!

[Leonard]

Everyone....

Just ignore Mark. Sometimes he can be cool, but sometimes he has these sand in the mangina fits. EXAMPLE: A year and a half ago, I was doing tech at the fairgrounds and he had a NOS bottle in his trunk. I told him he couldn't have it per SCCA rules. He got all bitchy and told me I was full of shit and that the event chair had told him at a prior event that his bottle wouldn't be an issue. I humored Mark and walked across the site to speak with the aforementioned event chair (who is also a safety steward) and they said that it is absolutely not permitted and that he had absolutely never made any sort of arrangement with Mark. To avoid him not being able to run, we came to the agreement that Mark could run so long as he removed the bottle from the car and placed it in the shade under a tree far away from from grid/scoring/spectators and covered it with something like a blanket so that it was inconspicuous. I went back and told Mark the conditions. He started off into a typical 3 year old tantrum telling me how stupid the rule was because NOS isn't explosive yada yad yada. Then he informed me that I was stupid for believing the rule and enforcing it and that it was a bunch of stupid bullshit. And to top it off, so EVERYONE within line of sight knew he was thowing a temper tantrum, he opened the valve on his disconnected bottle and gave everyone on site a beautiful nitrous cloud to look at. I'm thankful that FSF event staff wasn't around for it because it's exactly the type of bullshit that can lead to us losing a site.


Todd,

I really hope that you don't let people's criticism stop you from autoxing. I'll be the first to admit that I was critical of some of your early courses. It wasn't because they were bad designs so much as because of how many cones you used. I think that in an effort to make the courses easy to read for novices, you tend to use far more cones to define the line that cars take than you should. The lines you defined tended to be great for your car, but often times, not so great for other cars. It's easy to zip aroud on those lines in something that can turn like a miata or s2000, but in something like a mustang or a lightning, when your only hope of turning is power oversteer, your courses tend to have to restrictive of a path giving the driver a choice of slowing down or taking out a wall of cones with the back end. I also think there's something to be said for letting people find the line. It rewards those who really think about the line as they walk the course. You also tend to put 3 kicker cones in critical locations you don't want people to go rather than just 1. The reality is that anyone who is really pushing the limits is going to overcook it from time to time and it doesn't matter whether there is 1 cone or 3. For anyone driving that competatively, 2 seconds is an eternity... The extra 4 seconds don't make the run any crappier. Here comes the bigger problem with it....When you hit 3 cones at once, there's a lot more mass and force involved. One small cone isn't likely to do any damage. One big cone can do a litte and so can 3 small ones. I had run over dozens of cones (sequentially) in the mustang without any issues. One day at an event (lakeland i think. dunno if the course was yours or not), I got out of shape going into the finish and hit a wall of cones just before the finish and clipped three cones at the same time with the front right of my bumper. I drove home with it held in place with zip ties. My fault? Yes. Do I think the finish needs lots of cones like that? Yes. Do I think that somebody's bumper needs to be knocked loose because they missed a normal gate? No.

Anyway, I hope you understand I'm trying to give you meaningful feedback rather than just saying 'i don't like your courses'. I haven't seen one of your courses recently, so maybe you've already figured out what I'm talking about and I'm wasting my time. I'm just hoping that you'll still be making courses next year when I'm back to autoxing.... I know they'll be fun in the FFR. :-D Still, cones can't be good for fiberglass shells.

[marksaccord95]

leonard- you make it seem like i was fucking jumping around and crying about it. also i never said i arranged anything with anyone, i said the other 15 times ive been to an autocross with my wrx, i just took my bottle out and put it next to my shit and there were no problems, i didnt want to put my $200 stainless steel nitrous bottle over where i couldnt see it, so i simply emptied it.

whats all this 'kids' talk? how old do you think we are? im be 24 next month, far from a 'kid'

bottom line, u all are blowing shit out of proportion and miscontruing what i am saying.

a) i said if i knew of the course design prior, i would have brought the suitable car for the track, my WRX, not my corolla, i NEVER said it was shitty or that I didnt appreciate what people were doing for the event

b) i got people telling me how many tires i am dropping in the grass, though they werent even there? grow up.

c) All i was doing was trying to have fun since my setup with the slick surface made my car virtually impossible to grip, so i drifted, i hit minimal cones for the event, maybe like 8-9 max, in which (im about 99%) sure were not gates, just braking markers, nor did i ever go off course. also since my car isnt high powered, it doesnt leave huge ass tire marks all over the pavement, therefor i didnt cause anymore damage than anyone else out there. You make it seem like we were out there taking out all the cones, spinning out in the dirt and leaving big tire patches everywhere, that was NOT the case at ALL.

i think its just sad how fellow friends and autocrossers bitch about someone that is controlled sliding and not damaging the course more then anyone else is. Come out to a drift event, and grip race, u wont see people bitching about that.

[Loren]

You know, I was thinking seriously about editing out the first half of Leonard's last post. Before I did, Mark replied. I expected Mark's reply would be over the top and I'd have to delete it AND the first half of Leonard's post.

Mark's reply turned out to be fairly calm, and I appreciate that, so I'm leaving things alone.

But I am locking the thread. It has outlived what little usefulness it might have had.