SunRiders Autox - 8/22 - wrap up

[Loren]

Daaaaaaamn it was hot!

Somehow we channeled enough positive energy to chase the rain away, though we REALLY enjoyed the temporary cooling that the clouds brought with them.

51 drivers, gobs of newbs (kept me, Paul and a few others busy) and a lot of fun.

I've got a party to go to this evening, so I snuck out early (how often does THAT happen?). Since I did, I might not have the results tonight, so who knows when they'll get posted. Be patient.

[hangten93]

ya it was awesome im one of those newbs in my wrx ill post pics later if i get any good ones

[Geoffrie]

ya it was fun. A nice FAST track! It sucks to beat your friend driving his car though :lol: (sorry I had to...) I guess this means I need to buy tires so I can drive my own car at the next event huh?

[neurovish]

nah, you just need to take off next weekend and come to brooksville for a rematch :)

[4wdFury]

fun day, glad it didn't rain, though I was tempted to see what a watercross would be like.

[Loren]

Results are up on SunRidersAutocross.com (http://www.sunridersautocross.com).

Here are direct links:
8/22 by Time (http://www.sunridersautocross.com/srfiles/22Aug04_ByTime.pdf)
8/22 by Class (http://www.sunridersautocross.com/srfiles/22Aug04_ByClass.pdf)

[Muddy]

The mustang was on victoracers, not street tires. He was fast, but way too fast for street tires. I had a good time and I really enjoyed driving your car, Loren. It is very well balanced. If you had better tires you would have beaten me by more than a few tenths. ;)

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
The mustang was on victoracers, not street tires. He was fast, but way too fast for street tires. I had a good time and I really enjoyed driving your car, Loren. It is very well balanced. If you had better tires you would have beaten me by more than a few tenths. ;)

Yes, I've come to the conclusion that Toyo T1-S are great street tires (once you get used to them), but they aren't that great for autocrossing. Gonna have to get something better.

Of course, even with the tires I had, if I'd DRIVEN BETTER, I know I could have finished at least a half-second better. I was braking way too early in a couple places.

I'll check the Mustang.

EDIT: Checked. His form says "street". And Brian finished ahead of him on Azenis... so it's possible. Good thing it doesn't really matter, huh? :)

[robofunc]

Hey, i'm proud of my brother. It looks like he's getting faster. Guess he's not afraid to drive after rolling his '03 Si. I don't know if i'm going to be able to beat him now that he has good tires.

[Loren]

Originally posted by robofunc
Hey, i'm proud of my brother. It looks like he's getting faster. Guess he's not afraid to drive after rolling his '03 Si. I don't know if i'm going to be able to beat him now that he has good tires.

Not sure who yer bro is, but you used to TEAR UP the course in that Escort! Where ya been?

[robofunc]

My brother is Chris. He was driving a black (debadged, i think) 99 Si at the last event, and he had a silver 03 Si before that.

I'm still around, just been a little short on funds and had conflicts the last, like, 4 months. For every event. Been watching the boards, but not able to do much else. Things are about to change for the better financially, though, so i'm probably going to get some 205-50 15" Azenis and start running way more often. That's the plan, at least.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Loren
I'll check the Mustang.

EDIT: Checked. His form says "street". And Brian finished ahead of him on Azenis... so it's possible. Good thing it doesn't really matter, huh? :)
I know it doesn't matter, but he did have victoracers mounted. I checked the car after he ran. I just couldn't believe the mustang was that fast on street tires without squeeling the tires, and I was right. ;)

cheater, cheater, cheater!!!! :lol:

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
I know it doesn't matter, but he did have victoracers mounted. I checked the car after he ran. I just couldn't believe the mustang was that fast on street tires without squeeling the tires, and I was right. ;)

cheater, cheater, cheater!!!! :lol:

Since you actually verified what they were and I trust you, I'll take it as a reg form error and correct it. He did write "Kumho" in for tires, but he checked "street".

I'll fix it tonight. Maybe more corrections will come up before then. (I hate it when I make a correction and then 20 minutes later have to make another one!)

Maybe I can correct a few seconds off of my times?

[oilleak]

Well then, I might have been fastest on streets last month too. Not that I really care though. I think I could have had the overall FTD with one more run. I too never got that last left hander right.
Fun event. I hadn't run that course before 'cause of the Tour. It was a good couse. Good turn out too. There are times when I think I learn more at an SR event than at a GCAC event. I think that bodes well for the club.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Loren
Since you actually verified what they were and I trust you, I'll take it as a reg form error and correct it. He did write "Kumho" in for tires, but he checked "street".

I'll fix it tonight. Maybe more corrections will come up before then. (I hate it when I make a correction and then 20 minutes later have to make another one!)

Maybe I can correct a few seconds off of my times?
:lol: Maybe he uses them as street tires? No big deal, but I was shocked when I heard Brian announce that the mustang was on street tires! :lol:

[4wdFury]

ya that mustang was very very fast. Not something you expect from a 5.0 at autox. Though when I heard him drive by and all the gravel he was picking up, I pretty much figured he was on race rubber. Then I heard he was on street tires, I didn't believe it.

[oilleak]

I thought he was on Streets. Glad I did - I'd have probabley been slower if I'd known...

[Loren]

Originally posted by oilleak
I thought he was on Streets. Glad I did - I'd have probabley been slower if I'd known...

I need to start watching other people's times closer. All I really was aiming for was improving on my best time of 39.2. If I'd been paying attention, I might have realized that low 38's were within my grasp if I'd just REACH for them.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Loren
I need to start watching other people's times closer. All I really was aiming for was improving on my best time of 39.2. If I'd been paying attention, I might have realized that low 38's were within my grasp if I'd just REACH for them.
I swear you told me you were running 38s during our heat. LIAR! :lol: I felt I was pushing the limits of my abilities (I think my spins proved that), but I did drop a half second on my last run.

[OversteerS2K]

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I could've taken street FTD if it wasn't for that 13 pack Saturday night! Oh tires too...better to pass out at 8 then get a DUI on the way I guess.
Good to see Jorge did well in the black M3. He needs to drive hard more often. No cones and no O/C's tells me he wasn't pushing hard enough, though.



Damn, cheating @ Sunriders....That's gotta' be the lowest. Think I'll run HS this weekend and see if I get protested.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by OversteerS2K
Damn, cheating @ Sunriders....That's gotta' be the lowest. Think I'll run HS this weekend and see if I get protested.
I was kidding about the cheating part, I am sure it was an honest mistake. :) Next time, maybe you won't let your alcoholism get the best of you before an event! :lol:

[neurovish]

Originally posted by Loren
Yes, I've come to the conclusion that Toyo T1-S are great street tires (once you get used to them), but they aren't that great for autocrossing. Gonna have to get something better.


Do you change tires after every autox?
Seems like you're running something different each time.

How were people braking for the right hander where you double back into the pretzel? I don't think I ever came close to getting that right, either hit the brakes too early, ended up in a wide spin-drift taking the course with me, or didn't brake hard enough for a good line coming out of the corner.

[OversteerS2K]

Next time, maybe you won't let your alcoholism get the best of you before an event!
I resemeble that remark. I only drink once in a blue moon. Unfortunately the timing is always poor and the people I'm hanging with don't have to get up at 7 to go drive.

[OversteerS2K]

Except in South Carolina - there it was because I hadn't slept in two days and was in 9th place.

I'll be at the Oct. event. I've had it with MSCC's rat mazes and if I have to drive on a little asphalt postage stamp then St. Pete's alot closer.

[hangten93]

do any suby guys know what wheels the white 04 wrx was running, the wrc like wheels...

[4wdFury]

oz rally wheels

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Loren
Yes, I've come to the conclusion that Toyo T1-S are great street tires (once you get used to them), but they aren't that great for autocrossing. Gonna have to get something better.

I was surprised how easily they broke loose on me in the first right hander, but your car is so well balanced that I just let it drift. What are you using for suspension these days?

[Nole99]

Here's a link to some cool S2000 pics...I have no comment on the last pic!
link (http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=230657)

[OversteerS2K]

Nice pics., Scott.

A little drifty on that last one or was that in the middle of a spin?

[4wdFury]

is that where you almost took out the timing equipment but instead severed the lines and did take it out?

[Nole99]

uh...no comment...

[4wdFury]

ya that is the one...;)

[Lola56]

With regards to "The Mustang"


Tod Byram has been autocrossing since the 80's, and was a national level competitor in the late 80's. Could it be that the driver is a major component in achieveing low times?

It still amazes me at all the effort people go thru to improve the performance of their car, and do very little in attempting to improve their own driving skills.

Loren

Does the name Steve Brollier ring a bell with you? Steve is a several time National Champion in HS.

Steve never drove the same car for more than a year. It was guarranteed that after the SOLO Nationals, there would be an outcry to reclassify the car that Steve had just won in to a faster class. The SOLO Board was smart enough to take into account that Steve is an extrodinary driver. If other cars that were the same make and model as Steve's and finished high in the class, there was merit in considering reclassification.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Lola56
With regards to "The Mustang"

Tod Byram has been autocrossing since the 80's, and was a national level competitor in the late 80's. Could it be that the driver is a major component in achieveing low times?


I agree completely. I don't "know" Tod, but I did know that he was an old-school autocrosser and I've talked to him a little. (btw, the suspension on his Mustang is stock except for cut springs) I'm pretty sure he was on Kumho autox tires, but still... it's the driver that makes it happen.

Nobody's trying to take anything away from Tod, we just want him to be "classed" (we use the term very loosely) appropriately. If he's on R tires, he should be classed with the other R tire guys and not the Street Tire guys. (even though he comes out on top in EITHER class)

Loren

Does the name Steve Brollier ring a bell with you? Steve is a several time National Champion in HS.

Yes, the name does ring a bell. There have been several drivers in recent years of that caliber. I used to run with Russell Blume back in Wichita. He used to run Nationals in a beater Honda Civic. He would almost always finish in the top 3... and get protested for something stupid. People couldn't accept that he was just that good.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
I swear you told me you were running 38s during our heat. LIAR! :lol: I felt I was pushing the limits of my abilities (I think my spins proved that), but I did drop a half second on my last run.

Nah, 39.2 was what I set on my 2nd run, so I was saying that high 38's were my goal. Low 38's should have been my goal... and I should have gotten there, dammit!

[Loren]

Originally posted by neurovish
Do you change tires after every autox?
Seems like you're running something different each time.

How were people braking for the right hander where you double back into the pretzel? I don't think I ever came close to getting that right, either hit the brakes too early, ended up in a wide spin-drift taking the course with me, or didn't brake hard enough for a good line coming out of the corner.

My Miata has had 4 sets of tires on it in the past 2 years. A set of Azenis when I moved down here that were worn out. Replaced them with S-03's and ran those for a year. Then went to F1's and sold those after a few months when I bought the 14" Volks. Now I'm on Toyo T1-S. I guess I've been on 4 different sets of tires THIS YEAR, but before that, I had the S-03's for about a year.

I was braking too early for the turn you're talking about. That's where I could have made up well over half a second by braking later and/or less.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
I was surprised how easily they broke loose on me in the first right hander, but your car is so well balanced that I just let it drift. What are you using for suspension these days?

I switched my Flyin Miata suspension for a Ground Control kit (375/250 rates) set to nearly stock ride height (about 1/2 lower). Then I removed the swaybars. (completely. No bars at all.) I've got Koni Sport shocks. The alignment isn't quite right because I haven't had it realigned since I raised it. (so not enough camber and the toe is a little off)

I'm thinking seriously about putting 450 springs on the front to plant the back end a little more and eliminate just a little more body roll. (could do the same thing with a swaybar, but I'm being eccentric and trying to save the weight) I've got FM rear shock mounts on order that will allow me to drop the rear a tad more and give me back my suspension travel to keep me off the bump stops. After all that, I'll get an alignment!

Then maybe I'll get some Azenis...

[Muddy]

I didn't notice much body roll, but then I used to autox a stock cavalier. :lol:

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
I didn't notice much body roll, but then I used to autox a stock cavalier. :lol:

It rolls a whole lot less than a stock Miata (or Cavalier!), but still more than it did when I had that 25mm swaybar on the front and a 14mm on the rear. The roll doesn't bother me, it just feels like the balance isn't quite right. The fact that you spun it right away is a good indication that it could use more front spring!

My driving style is similar to yours, I like to power out of a turn, that takes a bias toward slight understeer.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Lola56
With regards to "The Mustang"


Tod Byram has been autocrossing since the 80's, and was a national level competitor in the late 80's. Could it be that the driver is a major component in achieveing low times?

There is no doubt that he is fast. I was quite impressed, but it was also quite obvious that he wasn't on street tires. I am also surprised to hear that the mustang has a stock suspension with cut springs, it handled quite well, but I suppose part of that is due to the smooth driving.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Loren
It rolls a whole lot less than a stock Miata (or Cavalier!), but still more than it did when I had that 25mm swaybar on the front and a 14mm on the rear. The roll doesn't bother me, it just feels like the balance isn't quite right. The fact that you spun it right away is a good indication that it could use more front spring!

My driving style is similar to yours, I like to power out of a turn, that takes a bias toward slight understeer.
I think I may have lifted when I spun, I don't remember. Besides, I spin everything, so that probably isn't a good indication of how your car handles. I still like to drive as if I am in a front wheel drive car. I like to lift for oversteer, accelerate for understeer.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
I think I may have lifted when I spun, I don't remember. Besides, I spin everything, so that probably isn't a good indication of how your car handles. I still like to drive as if I am in a front wheel drive car. I like to lift for oversteer, accelerate for understeer.

Lift for oversteer? In a FWD? Why? Vehicle dynamics are still the same for FWD. Lifting shifts weight off the rear, which isn't going to help. (yeah, I don't remember that shit when I'm driving, either)

I used to floor it for oversteer in my Saturn. I had it set up so that it was on the verge of oversteer when it was going straight. (fun was watching someone who hadn't driven it before dive into a slalom!) When the back end stepped out, I floored it and often got a nice 4-wheel drift out of it. Lifting would result in a spin every time.

[Muddy]

Originally posted by Loren
Lift for oversteer? In a FWD? Why? Vehicle dynamics are still the same for FWD. Lifting shifts weight off the rear, which isn't going to help. (yeah, I don't remember that shit when I'm driving, either)
Right, lifting shifts weight to the front of the car, giving the front tires more grip than the rear, thus inducing oversteer. ;) This was the only way I could get the cavalier to oversteer.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Muddy
Right, lifting shifts weight to the front of the car, giving the front tires more grip than the rear, thus inducing oversteer. ;) This was the only way I could get the cavalier to oversteer.

Oh, I misunderstood you. When you said "for", I thought you meant "in the case of", you meant "to induce". Gotcha.