750rwhp/830rwtq LS1 on STOCK Engine

[Silverchickn]

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131736

Who was saying that turboing an LS1 is not a wise decision?? :D

Discuss.

[TheShow50h]

It still isn't a wise decision unless you have bottumless pockets. We all knew a turbocharged ls1 could go fast, but who is willing to fork out the money to find out has been the problem.

I hope your setup turns out like this taws6 :D

[HybridSS]

That thing will be lucky to make one full pass at the track...lol.
But put that kit on built motor...and now we are talking. Of course that is the shop car. Many people with that kit AND built motors have had a hard time making anything near that HP.

[93supra]

Very impressive :o Look foward to seeing more set up's like that. nice!!;)

[Country Boy]

Originally posted by HybridSS
That thing will be lucky to make one full pass at the track...lol.
But put that kit on built motor...and now we are talking. Of course that is the shop car. Many people with that kit AND built motors have had a hard time making anything near that HP.

EXACTLY!!! Its nice when you have practically unlimited cash and a shop to make it all happen. Theres been plenty of people selling their turbo kits because they just dont perform on a LS1 unless you have very deep pockets. Ill slap on a 500 N2O kit and see who wins out over your $10k+ turbo kit :D :nerd:

[TheShow50h]

Originally posted by Country Boy
EXACTLY!!! Its nice when you have practically unlimited cash and a shop to make it all happen. Theres been plenty of people selling their turbo kits because they just dont perform on a LS1 unless you have very deep pockets. Ill slap on a 500 N2O kit and see who wins out over your $10k+ turbo kit :D :nerd:

This is definately a step foward in the turbo ls1 market though. Let these companies and businesses do the R&D and spend the money to get a successful turbo LS1 and then it will trickle down to the aspiring ls1 owner.

[Mars_302]

Why dont they turbo well? Is the engine specicually or the ECM?

[ZDriver96]

Reason 1 -10.2:1 compression
Reason 2 -Internals are not forged so the first time the engine detonates the pistons will start to shatter. The pistons are actually fairly strong, u just cant make that kind of mistake with them.
Reason 3 -Piston rings arent set for a boost application

I'd like to see how long that car lasts while driving it on the street.

[HybridSS]

Originally posted by ZDriver96
Reason 1 -10.2:1 compression
Reason 2 -Internals are not forged so the first time the engine detonates the pistons will start to shatter. The pistons are actually fairly strong, u just cant make that kind of mistake with them.
Reason 3 -Piston rings arent set for a boost application

I'd like to see how long that car lasts while driving it on the street.

Exactly...but once you go forged and lower the compression. Its the same as any motor. Skys the limit. Its just that (as Scott just posted in Ford tech) it always cost ALOT more than you think. You must be ready to shell out some cash to get it done right.

And to get a good turbo setup to meet or exceed a similarly built nitrous application (at 1/3 the cost)...you will have to spend BIG money.

[gator]

stock no way it will survive long. built motor? still the ls1 has a major problem not lifting the heads. o-ring/head studs help out but that is still a problem. i believe the ls1 has only 10 head bolts. we need more! guys in the 700+ rwhp are lifting heads big time. that is when things get expensive.

[Country Boy]

Some are solving it by drilling and retapping larger studs head studs. Thats major $$$$.

[Scott]

Ahh the beauty of having forged internals from the factory. :D

Now if my block was as strong as your GM blocks from the factory I would be dangerous.

[Scott]

Originally posted by HybridSS
Exactly...but once you go forged and lower the compression. Its the same as any motor. Skys the limit. Its just that (as Scott just posted in Ford tech) it always cost ALOT more than you think. You must be ready to shell out some cash to get it done right.

And to get a good turbo setup to meet or exceed a similarly built nitrous application (at 1/3 the cost)...you will have to spend BIG money.


Yep it costs some serious dough to do it right the first time. I have put high end parts in from front to back knowing a stout shortblock is going in later on. Everything I have on the car now is massive overkill for the power I am looking to put out on this shortblock.

[MugenR]

10.2:1 is bad?? ha. Compression and boost love each other just not as much room for error. I know its not exactly the same thing but I boosted my stock motor with its 10.6:1 compression for over a year at 12psi and never had a problem at all. I had all the right components to go with it though.

scott

[Just Dave]

That's a Honda, which is a small, efficient, high revving motor. Because of that, they can handle higher running compression (effective compression ratio while running) than a typical V8. I will have to disagree that high compression and boost "love" each other. Tests have been done showing that lower compression and more boost is a more reliable way to make more HP. The only people running high compression and high boost are racing applications limited by the rules.

[DaTruth]

There are many variables that come into play on a LS1/LS6/LQ4. First the compression. Even when you drop the compression you run into the next two problems. Keeping the heads from lifting and tuning. Both go hand and hand, but I think one of our biggest issues is tuning. If you read the post about QMP's setup closely you will realize that he uses Race gas and Alchy if I remember correctly. Plus, he is a sponsor who has unlimited funds when it comes to this project. Most of us do not have unlimited funds and CANNOT justify spending that much money on a possibility. Notice how he already has a backup motor ready to go in. How many of us have a backup motor? Now lets do the math. His base kit with a T-74 cost 6999. He has upgraded it to a T-76. So let's say it would cost you around 7200. Now add QMP installing the kit for you. Thats's 1500. You ask why let them install it? Well no one has been able to install his setup correctly and get the #'s he has yet. Now his base kit comes with the fuel for the T-74. Lets add another 600 for a real fuel setup and thats on the low side. Now you know you want to be safe right? Lets put a built motor in the car that can handle 750rwhp of boost plus. 348ci shortblock will run you 3500 with the goodies to take the pounding with a compression of 8.5:1. A good set of heads 2500 for some Judson's. You have to add studs and all that. Say 300. Assembling of longblock I would guess 200. Installing of the engine yourself free or you can pay someone 750. Most of us pay someone to install it. Alchy injection is 450. If you are a M6 you will need a high dollar clutch. Thats 750. If you are a A4 you will need a built tranny. Say 1500 minimum. There is also install for that. Say 200. I know I am missing some things and I am sure someone would fill in the holes. Also, not to mention the initial hit of the car itself. Lets say you got lucky and found a 98 Formula for 8000.

Total for M6 is 25950
Total for A4 is 26700

The above prices are on the low side. The very low side. I have a 01 SS so I would be at 50k for that project. My buddy just picked up a 99 FRC for less than 24k and it has only 20k miles. If I was using my car as an example and 50k was the total. I could purchase a 99 FRC and put a H/C package from TEA on the car for less than 3k. That leaves me 23k left. I could purchase that same 98 Formula for 8k. Put in a 383ci Iron Block like Al's for 8k. Add a direct port system for 1500. Built tranny for 2k. Rear end for 2k. Install, tuning, and draglite wheels would cover the rest. Can you say I have a pimp ride for cruising and a monster for some bruising? Now thats if I take the F-body route. I could go on the cheap side and get a Mustang LX shell and for less than 15k build something even faster.

Basically my point is most of us cant afford to do what QMP can do. Who wants to shell out that kind of money and can break the very next day? No guarantee's in this business buddy.

P.S. I did miss the rear in the initial project build price. Add 2500 to both A4 and M6 totals.

[Country Boy]

Very well said Vince... has anyone ever seen QMPs "project" vehicles? That will tell you something there :)

https://www.quartermileperformance.com/projectcars.asp

[DaTruth]

QMP is obviously making some money..

[DaTruth]

I farted around with the idea of going boost for a long time. That was over a year ago when I made more money obviously. I made a bad move and now I am paying for it, but I will recover with a 408ci setup this year. I just have to juggle not increasing debt at the same time I save for the build.

[TurboLs1]

Ok, who is willing to fork over the money...hehehe :D

I love n2o but love boost as well, and the "what now bizotch" factor is cool plus I dont have to refill my turbo with boost every weekend...I was bringing 2 10lb bottles and spending $40 every Saturday night with my n2o setup. I dont know if you meant 10k for the turbo kit or the whole motor minus the turbo kit (more realistic) Carl? It is better to put together a custom turbo kit if you know physics and turbos than go blowing money on a complete kit. I know this from experience...

Stock pistons shatter? Is that why 2 pistons were missing (and in the oil pan) when I pulled my heads...lol. Correct, these pistons, ring lands, and rings are sure as hell not meant for boost.

I never lifted my heads? From what I hear I am about the only one who ran 9+psi without doing so, but then again I was only running a P-trim wheel.

Strong as our GM blocks? Ummm....mine has about an 8" crack down the passenger side...

MugenR, I agree that boost and high compression is a plus. You must however run a well selected cam to help control the compression (overlap) and have a really good tuner. My father is running a little under 13:1 n/a on 93 octane (air cooled Harley Davidson turning about 8k rpm) and there is plently of guys running better fuel seeing 12.5:1 with boost at the track in V-8's. One of the guys I know is currently building a weekend street car that is a twin turbo '69 Camaro 427BBC on alcohol and is going like 13:1 and boost. Pay to play right?

Just my $.02, thanks guys.
-Mike Chapman

[WHY_NOT???]

hopefully TAWS6 will pull those numbers off