SunRiders PDS wrap-up

[Loren]

Results and skidpad data are on the website:
SunRiders Autocross (http://www.sunridersautocross.com)

Heckuva day. Lots o' fun.

[obrien2]

I don't adobe acrobat. is there anyway to post the numbers on here?

[Loren]

Originally posted by obrien2
I don't adobe acrobat. is there anyway to post the numbers on here?

Acrobat is becoming one of those things that it's hard to do without. I resisted using it for posting stuff to the web for a very long time, but now it's finally become such a "standard" that it's hard to resist.

Unless you have some reason not to, I'd recommend that you go ahead and download and install the Acrobat Reader (http://http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html). It's free and easy to install.

If that is not an option, send me a personal email and I can send you the results as an RTF document (won't be pretty) and the skidpad data as an Excel spreadsheet.

[Chin]

Yes, it was a good time! I was glad to see an improvment in everyones time. But as you can see by lorens single run at the end, you all have room for improvment! hahaha give you more reasons to go to more autoX's! Loren, that was a fun trip threw st. pete yesterday! hahaha crazy streeet racers!

[Loren]

Originally posted by Chin180sx
Yes, it was a good time! I was glad to see an improvment in everyones time. But as you can see by lorens single run at the end, you all have room for improvment! hahaha give you more reasons to go to more autoX's!

I did toss in my, Brian Hollands and Jonathan Skinners times just for reference. I'm not even that good. Compare me to someone like Jesse, I'm a very conservative driver. But several of our newbie drivers were within 2-3 seconds of my time, and that's damned good considering that my car is set up for autocross and I've been doing this for about 8 years now.

That test course turned out to be surprisingly fun, though!

Loren, that was a fun trip threw st. pete yesterday! hahaha crazy streeet racers!

That was fun, too. I don't take that route often (as if that wasn't obvious by my constantly being in an exit only lane), so I usually try to have a little fun with it. But there's a big difference between "street racing" and playing a little friendly cat and mouse.

Er... um... I mean... I have no idea what you're talking about, Matt. ;)

[0HP930]

Damn, my student Jeff ended kicking some major ass. :evil2:

Thats great, and in a truck with a solid rear axle and leaf springs none the less.

[obrien2]

Thanks for the compliment. I had a great time, and really appreciated your help. I hope to make it next sunday to the event at the fair grounds to see how I can do in a real event.

[S1M0N]

Thanks to Loren, Jonathan, and all of the instructors and support personnel for a GREAT Event! I truly enjoyed myself and I might even have learned something too. :) I dropped a big review on the school on the ProbeTalk site in the FLAPOC forum for anyone who is interested. It was such a great time and really helpful (at least I learned a lot -- your milage may vary). I want all my car buddies to come check it out, but then I think . . . wait . . . that means less seat time for me. Hmmm.

Forget it, don't come, you probably wouldn't like it. :)

Serious fun! Thanks again to all who made it possible.

[obrien2]

I think I would like to try the autox in a good handling car, with traction, just to see how good I really am. I think I was pretty much at the limits of my truck. Oh well. Mabey I should just improve it. lol

[Chin]

go rent a car at like Enterprise (one of my favs in the cavaliar) Burniatate it to death at the autoX and have fun at the beinging (warming up) the tires! hahahah just make sure to get the insruance!

[robofunc]

Yeah, thanks for having the school - it was fun and educational, and the food was really good!

Next weekend i'll remember to put enough gas in my car.

[S1M0N]

I took a few pics at the event. They're nothing great, but you can click on my gallery button below to see them. L8R.

[Loren]

Originally posted by obrien2
I think I would like to try the autox in a good handling car, with traction, just to see how good I really am. I think I was pretty much at the limits of my truck. Oh well. Mabey I should just improve it. lol

Anytime you feel that your driving is as good as it can be, have a driver you respect take a run in your vehicle to compare. Unless your vehicle is really quirky, you'll probably be surprised.

I did that in my Saturn a few years ago. Was pretty sure I'd reached a plateu after autoxing in that car for 3-4 years. Had a hot-shoe (Russell Blume, National H-Stock champion and/or contender for several of the past 5 years or so) take a single run in the car with me in the passenger seat and he beat my best time by a second. Damn!

So, yes you can improve your truck. I've seen some trucks properly set up that would out-handle a lot of cars and do things that trucks just plain shouldn't be able to do. (and I'm talking about a full-size Chevy!) But, there's likely room for driver improvement, too.

I'd let you take a run or two in my Miata when the opportunity presents itself. Just let me know. (I probably won't be doing another autocross until the next SunRiders event in November... unless you want to drive my car bad enough to pay my entry fee at FSF next Sunday!)

[Loren]

Originally posted by Chin180sx
go rent a car at like Enterprise (one of my favs in the cavaliar) Burniatate it to death at the autoX and have fun at the beinging (warming up) the tires! hahahah just make sure to get the insruance!

Damn, Matt. Doing a little speed-typing today? A fit of dyslexia?

[Chin]

Speed typing!

[Loren]

For you driving school grads (and everyone else, too): At the end of the day I was supposed to hand out this sheet that I had dutifully printed 35 copies of the day before. Of course, I forgot about it until after I got home. (that's okay, it was the only mistake I've made all month) Anyway, here it is. Good stuff. Read it, learn it, live it.


Top 10 Zen Autocross Driving tips by Randy Chase
(National Champion and Evolution School instructor)

If you’re not interested in autocrossing, read this anyway. Some of these tips can be applied to daily driving, especially the ones regarding visual perception and looking ahead.

1) Position first, then speed. Positioning the car perfectly is more important than trying to attain the highest potential speed. For example, you will drop more time by correctly positioning the car nearer to slalom cones than you will by adding 1 or 2 MPH in speed. Same with sweepers (tight line). Same with 90-degree turns (use all of the track). Also, position is a prerequisite for speed. If you are not in the correct place, you will not be able go faster. Or at least not for very long!
2) Turn earlier...and less. To go faster, the arc you are running must be bigger. A bigger arc requires less steering. To make a bigger arc that is centered in the same place, the arc must start sooner (turn earlier).
3) Brake earlier...and less. Waiting until the last possible second approaching a turn and then dropping anchor at precisely the correct place so that the desired entry speed is reached exactly as you come to the turn-in point is quite difficult to execute consistently. Especially when you consider that you get no practice runs on the course, and the surface changes on every run, and you aren't likely to be in exactly the same position with the same approach speed on every run, etc. Better to start braking a little earlier to give some margin of error. And by braking less you can either add or subtract braking effort as you close in on the turn-in point. This will make you consistent and smooth.
4) Lift early instead of braking later. Continuing with the philosophy of #3, when you need to reduce speed only a moderate amount, try an early lift of the throttle instead of a later push of the brake. This is less upsetting to the car, is easier to do and thus more consistent, and allows for more precise placement entering the maneuver (remember #1 above).
5) Easier to add speed in a turn than to get rid of it. If you are under the limit, a slight push of the right foot will get you more speed with no additional side effects. On the other hand, if you are too fast and the tires have begun slipping, you can only reduce throttle and wait until the tires turn enough of that excess energy into smoke and heat. Don't use your tires as brakes!
6) Use your right foot to modulate car position in constant radius turns, not the steering wheel. In a steady state turn, once you have established the correct steering input to maintain that arc, lifting the throttle slightly will let the car tuck in closer to the inside cones. Conversely, slightly increasing the throttle will push the car out a bit farther to avoid inside cones. It is much easier to make small corrections in position with slight variations in the tires' slip angle (that's what you are doing with the throttle) than with the steering wheel.
7) Unwind the wheel, then add power. If the car is using all of the tire's tractive capacity to corner, there is none left for additional acceleration. At corner exit, as you unwind the wheel, you make some available. If you do not unwind the wheel, the tire will start to slide and the car will push out (see #6 above).
8) Attack the back. For slaloms (also applicable to most offsets), getting close to the cones is critical for quick times (see #1). To get close, we must move the car less, which means bigger arcs. Bigger arcs come from less steering and require earlier turning (see #2). Now for the fun part... When you go by a slalom cone and start turning the steering wheel back the other way, when does the car start to actually change direction? Answer: When the wheel crosses the center point (Not when you first start turning back!) How long does that take? If you are smooth, it takes .25 - .5 seconds. Now, how long is a typical person's reaction time? Answer: about .5 seconds. Finally, how long does it take to go between slalom cones? Answer: Typically on the order of 1 second. Given all of that, your brain must make the decision to begin turning the steering wheel back the other way just *before* you go by the previous cone!! Since this is a mental issue, a good visualization technique to get used to this is to think about trying to run over the back side of each slalom cone with the inside rear tire of the car. To hit it with the rear tire (and not the front), the car must be arcing well before the cone and the arc must be shallow. Attack the back!
9) Hands follow the eyes, car follows the hands. 'Nuf said.
10) Scan ahead, don't stare. Keep the eyes moving. Looking ahead does not mean staring ahead. Your eyes must be constantly moving forward and back, and sometimes left and right. Glance forward, glance back. Your brain can only operate on the information you give it.

Bonus Tip: Don't forget the stuff in between the marked maneuvers! Too often we think of a course as series of discrete maneuvers. There is typically more to be gained or lost in the areas that are in between. Pay special attention to the places where there are no cones.

[0HP930]

Originally posted by obrien2
I think I would like to try the autox in a good handling car, with traction, just to see how good I really am. I think I was pretty much at the limits of my truck. Oh well. Mabey I should just improve it. lol
Man, you beat out a bunch of Miatas and other small sports cars with that truck. You are also intimately familiar with the vehicle and its quirks so stick with it.

Running your truck at an auto-x - $20 to $30
Beating a bunch of sports cars at an auto-x with a truck - Priceless

[Chin]

Drifting inbetween/during lunch - priceless! :D

[Altima NOS]

I had a good time there and learned alot as well as finding out I had a lot to learn.

[obrien2]

Originally posted by 400HP930
Man, you beat out a bunch of Miatas and other small sports cars with that truck. You are also intimately familiar with the vehicle and its quirks so stick with it.

Running your truck at an auto-x - $20 to $30
Beating a bunch of sports cars at an auto-x with a truck - Priceless

I certainly have to agree with you on that. Loren mabey one day I can take you up on your offer. But I doubt I will be able to come too close to you. lol I love my truck, but it needs some serious traction help. mabey a new diff and possi unit will help

[Muddy]

Too bad I couldn't make it. I am having a lot of fun blasting through some English country roads out here in Oxford in a rented Saab 93 Vector, though. ;)

[Muddy]

I found it quite ironic that I thought the skidpad was useless and should be replaced with something you see more often at an autox, such as an increasing/decreasing radius turn, then I flew to England and went zipping through round-a-bouts. :lol: