Primus Racing track

[Loren]

Some folks from the SunRiders club did a recon mission on the track today. Things are coming together with us and the owner. We have dates that have been reserved for us and we are close to finalizing the costs.

Here's a rough sketch of the track from my feeble memory. Scale is probably way off, but it will give you the general idea. The yellow lines indicate the configuration that the SunRiders will be running, obviously there are other configurations and the course can be run in either direction. (we found clockwise to be a little more fun) The full course that we played on today was about 90 seconds from a standing start. The pavement is 26 feet wide all around with concrete curbing adding another foot on the inside/outside of most of the tighter turns.

We will likely be insuring and running our events here as more of a "track event" than an "autocross". This will preclude the need to put out a bunch of cones, and we will likely only add a slalom to the longest straight to slow things down a bit. (besides, we like a good slalom) We'll still be running one car at a time, of course. This track won't support wheel-to-wheel for anything bigger than a kart.

Keep your eye on the sticky "schedule" thread for more info on these events. (I just put a note on there with proposed dates)

Neal, Leonard, somebody... get with me off-list, I have contact info for you. They're looking to fill out their schedule for next year. (the more dates that get filled, the better rate he'll be able to offer to everyone) They have lots of groups interested. Karts, sport bikes, car clubs, etc. Opportunity is knocking.

Lastly... how much would you experienced autocrossers (we don't feel comfortable putting novices out on this track) be willing to pay for about a dozen runs on this track? And how many of you are there??? It's looking like if we keep the entry at a comfortable 40-50, we can get costs down to somewhere between $60 and $80 per driver. Including lunch, of course.

Hmmm... let's see if I can figure out how to do a poll...

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/shad/Temp/Primus%20Sketch.gif

[Loren]

Just noticed a path that I'd left off of the map (going to the left from the pit area). It completes the "short course" that was intended for kart racing.

[Leonard]

Oh yeah. I wanna run there. :-D I haven't seen the site, but I see no reason SCCA can't swing novices.

Loren, Where is the access to/from the track at? Is there a paved area (or gravel) nearby that can serve as a paddock? (I presume these guys won't want people changing tires on their nice asphalt.

[Loren]

Hey, Leonard.

There's not much there right now. There is a building (which will eventually be the owner's manufacturing facility) and parking around it, but really not that much parking. The plan is to build garages just South of the pit road, don't know if that will add more parking options or not.

There is no gravel. Everything is asphalt, what's not asphalt is either grass or lake. The lake is on the inside of the big sweeper.

This is one of the reasons I'd like to keep entry down to 40-50 drivers.

You guys definitely need to get with the track owner and go check the place out.

The entry point is to the East of the pit road area. The building is in the open corner on the map, parking is on the North side of the building. I wasn't paying enough attention, but I would guess that there aren't more than 30, maybe 40 spaces... if that.

BTW, if you want to look up the location, the address is:
10101 Us Highway 41 N
Palmetto, FL

[Slash]

How do i prove i'm not a novice? bring my GCAC tokens with me?

I also forgot to check the 6+ events tag as well

[Loren]

Originally posted by Slash
How do i prove i'm not a novice? bring my GCAC tokens with me?

I also forgot to check the 6+ events tag as well

Good question. No really good answer. Most people who have been around the local autox scene for a while we (the SunRiders organizers) will either know or they will show up with someone that we know. On the odd chance that an unknown face shows up, I think we could determine whether or not they were a novice in a fairly short conversation.

Our Primus events will be pre-registered, so we should know who the drivers are well before the event and "check up on them" if we feel the need.

The main thing we're after is a level of driving experience that will keep the driver from making a newbie mistake and wrecking. Unlike the typical autox where overdriving normally can't get you into too much trouble, overdriving on this track could send you spinning off into the grass at speeds of up to 70 mph. Even though there aren't many obstacles around the course to hit, this presents the risk of hooking a wheel in some of that good ol' Florida sand and tossing you on your roof.

[obrien2]

Since I am wanting to get into this kind of thing, I need to start participating in some events. That track looks like it would be a blast. My auto-x experience isn't that extensive, but I have done a few of them. However these were in electric cars that we built in a high school program, and we ran on a fairly small course. The highest speeds I ever remeber seeing were about 45 or so. Track times were in the 35-60 second range just depending on the track that year. Either way, I need to get together with you guys and start having some fun

[Slash]

Yeah ive been doing events down with GCAC (I lived in Fort Myers) for a couple years now.. however I am new to the sunriders, ive only seen some of ya'll down at GCAC with us a few times thats about it..

[perdition79]

i gotta get some more autocross experience. that course looks fun. and i can see what you mean about not letting novices on the course.

i wouldn't try that for at least another year. i'll stick to the police training course on the southside until i gain some experience.

[Loren]

C'mon guys, 159 views and only 15 responses to the poll?

Help me out here. If we can't demonstrate the potential for 40+ entries, we'll be forced to budget for what we KNOW we can attract and that will drive the price up.

If we know we'll hit our current 48 car limit every time, then we can budget for that and the cost will be very reasonable. My gut tells me that we'd get our 48 if we can keep the cost below $60... but it's hard to bet my club's autocross budget on that.

With that in mind... please, do the poll, give me some feedback.

Thanks!

[Chin]

Dude, im totally in with my blue 240sx! HOA!!!

[w0rd]

Originally posted by Loren
If we know we'll hit our current 48 car limit every time, then we can budget for that and the cost will be very reasonable.
Don't you think a lot of the GCAC crew would come up for this track? If so, you would definitely hit your 48 car limit.

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by w0rd
Don't you think a lot of the GCAC crew would come up for this track? If so, you would definitely hit your 48 car limit.

They usually don't go ANYWHERE... sad but true.

[Loren]

Originally posted by w0rd
Don't you think a lot of the GCAC crew would come up for this track? If so, you would definitely hit your 48 car limit.

Yes, I do. I think we'll draw from all over the area because it's a great facility and there is nothing else like it anywhere near us. Closest thing is Sebring, which is better... but more costly and 3 hours away.

I'm just reaching for a good solid "warm fuzzy" from this group, especially regarding the cost issue. Insurance, actual site rental fees and possible EMT coverage (which the site owner didn't say he was requiring, but hinted that he is very much in favor of) are all still in the air at this point, so we don't know exactly where we're going to end up with total costs.

I think there's a good sample of drivers who are likely to attend these events right here on TR. Knowing what this group is thinking will be a big plus.

[mofugga]

better be really good for $60!

[w0rd]

Originally posted by Loren
there is nothing else like it anywhere near us. Closest thing is Sebring
Gainesville????
Sounds similar from your description.
I don't think you have been there, so there is no way to compare.
Gainesville is 24 foot wide asphalt.
It's only 60-70 sec long (with cones) but then again it doesn't have as many first gear sections as your description of Primus.

This upcoming event in G-ville would probably be a good place for the newbies to wet their feet before Primus also.

[w0rd]

Originally posted by mofugga
better be really good for $60!

I am all for it.
If we get 12 runs, that's $5 a run on a 90 sec course.
Sounds ABOVE average to me.
Not saying that I want to pay a penny over $60 though. :)

[Loren]

Originally posted by w0rd
Gainesville????
Sounds similar from your description.
I don't think you have been there, so there is no way to compare.
Gainesville is 24 foot wide asphalt.
It's only 60-70 sec long (with cones) but then again it doesn't have as many first gear sections as your description of Primus.

This upcoming event in G-ville would probably be a good place for the newbies to wet their feet before Primus also.

I don't consider Gainesville to be "in this area". It's a good 2.5 hours from my house. I'm talking about the Bay area and up to maybe an hour outside of the city limits of Tampa or St. Pete. There's not much available to us "right here". Primus is 45 minutes from my door... and I live way over in Safety Harbor.

I've only done about 6 laps of Primus, and one of them was in someone else's car. I was downshifting for some turns that I *might* not have needed to downshift for. You know, better line, carry more speed, etc. Remember, there were no cones out there to key on for apex markers and I was on street tires. A driver who was familiar enough with the track to know the line and who was on R-tires would probably dip into first a lot less often than I did.

But what's wrong with first gear? As long as you get to shift OUT of it! (being stuck in first gear most of the time is what sucks about the SPCC site) Shifting is part of driving.

I'm toying with the idea of doing the G'ville practice day. It sounds like an awful lot of fun, and would surely give me some ideas on how to proceed with our events at Primus.

[w0rd]

Originally posted by Loren
But what's wrong with first gear?
Nothing, I was just saying that it might be the reason for the longer lap times. But, Primus is probably just bigger overall.

[Loren]

Originally posted by w0rd
Nothing, I was just saying that it might be the reason for the longer lap times. But, Primus is probably just bigger overall.

I'm guessing it is. To meet the Solo II safety guidelines, the fastest part of the course would have to be slowed WAY down (80 mph in an underpowered Miata on street tires is way too fast for by-the-book Solo II), which would make the 90 second lap time a good 10 seconds longer.

I didn't mention this before, but I only scared myself once on the track Sunday. :) Running CW, even with a 3-cone slalom slowing down the longest straight, that big wide sweeper gets more speed than you can actually carry on street tires. Couldn't stay on it in 3rd, had to let up at about 70 when the car started drifting out. Damn, that was fun! I really enjoyed that course going clockwise. It was fun the other way, too... but CW rules!

[Leonard]

Loren,

Before you decide you can't run this course with novices, you REALLY need to come to an SCCA event in Gainesville. You would be surprised how much you can slow stuff down with a few properly placed gates.

[Loren]

Originally posted by MinGreyCobra
Loren,

Before you decide you can't run this course with novices, you REALLY need to come to an SCCA event in Gainesville. You would be surprised how much you can slow stuff down with a few properly placed gates.

I don't doubt that at all. But if there are enough experienced drivers to support it, I think we'd all like to run the track WITHOUT those restrictions. Such is my goal. And maybe we could allot a certain number of our entries to novices and pair them up with an instructor? Nothing is set in stone yet.

For what we're going to have to pay for this site, I want to get the most we can get out of it. Seems to me that everyone is always wanting to go "faster". This site will allow that... but the risks are greater if we do.

Which brings up another sub-topic that I was avoiding for now, but I'll bring it up, anyway. Our insurance will cover an "event" for up to 3 days. We could get more value out of what we're paying for insurance by renting the track for two days instead of one. I think we could pretty easily do a 2-day event for under $100/driver.

Compare this to $250ish for a 2-day Sebring event. Of course there is potential for a lot more seat time at Sebring... but you'd get close to 40 minutes over two days at Primus. The big difference would be that it would be one lap at a time, autocross style.

I'm not gonna try anything that ambitious for a while, probably not until 2005... unless there's a lot of interest. Y'all lemme know.

[Leonard]

Originally posted by Loren
I don't doubt that at all. But if there are enough experienced drivers to support it, I think we'd all like to run the track WITHOUT those restrictions.


There is a venue for this this already. It's called Solo1.


I went to the solo trials last year. You run multiple laps at a time (warmup lap, 2-5 hot laps, cooldown lap). Speeds are higher. EMS is onsite. Safety reqs are far more stringent. Competition licenses are required (i had a novice solo1 license).

The mindset required to safely do highspeed events is VASTLY different from that of Solo2. To be competative in Solo2, you have to attack the course and drive very agressively. Speeds are slow enough that mistakes don't have dire consequences (ok, you can flat spot a tire... ). For higher speed events you have to have a much calmer demeanor or you will get hurt.

My experience at the trials was this: Going into the bustop (120* hairpin) @ FSF going 90+mph. Pressing the brakes and having almost NOTHING left. Thankfully, the course layout was such that I could run over some cones and coast around a nice long turn only to be waved around for another lap by the starter.

I guess the real lesson I learned that day is that in Solo2, you can take every ounce of braking, cornering and acceleration your car has to go faster, but when the speeds increase, if you don't leave something on the table you can really get into trouble quickly.

Just something for everyone to think about.

[Loren]

Yes, this would be similar to a Solo I style of event. You talk as if this "venue" is one that is all too common in this area. If it is, I haven't seen it. (what I have seen is people complain about slow autox courses and applaud really fast ones) I think there is a "market" for it, the problem is that there aren't too many sites that can support it. (it's hard enough to just find a decent low-speed autox site)

I do appreciate your insight into the differences between this type of event and a typical autocross. You verbalized what I was feeling and thinking while driving the track this weekend. For instance, when running CCW down the back straight watching the speedo reach 80... the thought of "pushing it" and waiting until the last second to brake was the last thing I wanted to do! Quite the contrary, I "tested" the brakes well ahead of that hairpin and hauled the car down to first-gear speeds in a controlled fashion.

Reflecting on it... were it not for my paranoia about blowing that hairpin (there's a nice little berm off the end of it that we theorized one could use to launch themselves out onto US41 with enough speed ;) ), it's possible that it could be a 2nd gear turn.

It's going to take more than 6 laps to fully understand this track!

FYI, we've already talked about making our first event out there strictly a "practice session". No times, no pressure to "compete", just go out and have some fun SAFELY. Sort of what we were doing out there Sunday, only with structure.

[w0rd]

Having done both Solo I and II at Gainesville, I say forget the Solo I. Just do a Solo II on the track.

To me, solo II is way more fun, and our cars are better prepared for it.

For example, my brake fluid couldn't handle 3 laps at Gainesville (93 sec).
I had to crawl around the track on the warmup lap, barely touching the brakes if I wanted them to last for the 2 timed laps.

My experience at the trials was this: Going into the bustop (120* hairpin) @ FSF going 90+mph.
I think he means GIR. And that is exactly what happend to me also. On my third lap heading toward the entrance to the first skidpad (120*), I hit the brake pedal and it went straight to the floor. I pumped my brakes and prepared for impact with the cone wall they had setup. Luckily they came back after pumping.

Hmmm. Even if you do a Solo I or Solo II style course. People are still going to be boiling brake fluid, unless their system is top-notch.

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by Loren
I'm guessing it is. To meet the Solo II safety guidelines, the fastest part of the course would have to be slowed WAY down (80 mph in an underpowered Miata on street tires is way too fast for by-the-book Solo II), which would make the 90 second lap time a good 10 seconds longer.



At Gainesville, my MR2, on street tires, which is SLOWER than your miata, can easily hit 80, depending on how you set the course up. FWIW, at a SOLO2, I've been in 4th gear, at GIR.

(props to me for having the most commas in two sentences:))

Saturday's course for GIR is already drawn up. Leonard and a few others have seen it. There *might* be one first gear corner, and it's not the usual "really tight corner". There is also a section where 3rd gear will probably be used by the lower geared cars, NOT leonard:)

Loren, come out to the GIR event, either day. As of late, the West Coast events have been running well, and we're hoping GIR can maintain that. Hopefully we can do 4+ laps. On the other hand, it would also be great to have 90 people instead of the 40 we had at FSF last time.

[Loren]

You guys are going straight from black (Solo II) to white (Solo I) without considering the grey in-between.

I'm still talking about doing SINGLE LAPS of the course. Yes, parts of the course may be faster than the typical Solo II course, but with only one lap and plenty of cool-down time, overheating brakes (and tires and engines, etc) shouldn't be a big issue.

I ran most of my Primus test laps in two-lap sets, and I did indeed get my brakes hot enough to smell them on my 4th lap. (not a common occurence on my Miata) So, I'm sure that doing multiple laps could be a heat management problem for a lot of cars.

But, again, I'm not planning to do multi-laps for SunRiders events.

One big reason for NOT doing that is that I can get more people more seat time by doing single laps. If we tried to do multi-laps, we could maybe run two cars at once... but in 3 or more laps, the chances of driver B catching up with driver A increase greatly. I wouldn't want to try it. Running one lap, I can start a car every 30-45 seconds all day long, this is how I came up with the idea that it was possible to do a dozen runs with as many as 48 drivers in an 8-hour day.

Multiple laps kills efficiency as well as brakes.

[PseudoRealityX]

brakes should NEVER be an issue in a one lap event, which is what, at least I, am talking about...


doing 7 consecutive hotlaps at GIR's open course running Victoracers on the other hand... that'll kill some brakes in a hurry.

[Leonard]

Originally posted by w0rd
I think he means GIR. And that is exactly what happend to me also. On my third lap heading toward the entrance to the first skidpad (120*), I hit the brake pedal and it went straight to the floor. I pumped my brakes and prepared for impact with the cone wall they had setup. Luckily they came back after pumping.


This is exactly where I had my issue. I, however didn't have enough brakes to avoid the cone wall. I had full synthetic fluid, so that wasn't as much of an issues as the OEM pads not being up to the task. I suspected that would be the case and had brought a spare set of rotors and a set of hawk HP+ pads. I'm a little more imbalanced when it comes to competative motorsports than most around here, so I changed them and bled the brakes between heats. The HP+ pads only showed a touch of fade after three laps and with a little compression braking, that was negligeble.

[flmcoupe]

You can count me in! $60 sounds reasonable for 12 runs. I've done a few track events at Sebring (it's only 80 miles from Brandon, 1.5 hour for me), and you DO get more track time (not to mention higher speeds! :D), 2-3 hours a day (~2:45 a lap), depending on the club, but it doesn't necessarily cost more to go to an event there, $200-300/day or weekend. If you average 3min. a lap that's 20 laps an hour, about 40-60 laps a day, maybe even more, depends on how long you want to stay out on the track. 300/60= ~$5/lap, 60/12=$5/lap, you get the idea...

Solo2 and Track are totally different, I think events at Primus would be a mixture of both, a real test of autox/track talent. I will let some of the other BMW track freaks know about this events, they'll probably be very interested. Is there a web site for Primus?

Jamal

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by MinGreyCobra
This is exactly where I had my issue. I, however didn't have enough brakes to avoid the cone wall. I had full synthetic fluid, so that wasn't as much of an issues as the OEM pads not being up to the task. I suspected that would be the case and had brought a spare set of rotors and a set of hawk HP+ pads. I'm a little more imbalanced when it comes to competative motorsports than most around here, so I changed them and bled the brakes between heats. The HP+ pads only showed a touch of fade after three laps and with a little compression braking, that was negligeble.

if your pedal went to the floor, then its fluid. If its the pads, brake will feel the same, you just won't stop. Fluid boils = pedal to floor...

[Imperial TSi AWD]

Holy crap is that place hard to find...

After numerous trips up and down US 41, asking the locals for directions...

I narrowed the prescribed Mapquest 1.31 mile distance from the 275 exit.

From the looks of it, it's a big, newly built blue-ish building next to some kind of Verizon Wireless shack, with a port-a-potty out by the driveway. I couldn't really see the track, but I think I saw the berm that Loren was talking about...

Interesting enough, only "No Trespassing" was posted! :(

Is this the place... Or am I horribly off with my sense of direction...?

[Loren]

Originally posted by Imperial TSi AWD
Is this the place... Or am I horribly off with my sense of direction...?

That's the place, right in the shadow of that cell tower. Not real visible from the road. Signage is on their list of things to do.

The basic track is finished, but the building is not. Primus has not yet moved into the facility.

They have a website, but it's an "under construction" place-holder.

http://primusracing.com/

[OversteerS2K]

Maybe do like the PCA drivers ed. and require a recent inspection by a tech. along with Motul SuperBlue or ATE 600. Never having been, I can't say for certain what all is involved, but I'd spend the dough on pads, fluid, and an inspection to be able to run hotlaps.

[w0rd]

Originally posted by OversteerS2K
Maybe do like the PCA drivers ed. and require a recent inspection by a tech. along with Motul SuperBlue or ATE 600.
I think it deserves some attention. I had 30,000 miles on my OEM fluid when I boiled it after 90 secs on the G-ville track. Now that I have synthetic (Valvoline), I think I could make it around a 90+ sec Primus track without issue. Heavier cars might need the Motul or Superblue to make it around a 90+ sec course.

[Loren]

Originally posted by OversteerS2K
Maybe do like the PCA drivers ed. and require a recent inspection by a tech. along with Motul SuperBlue or ATE 600. Never having been, I can't say for certain what all is involved, but I'd spend the dough on pads, fluid, and an inspection to be able to run hotlaps.

The problem with hot laps at this site as compared to a place like Sebring is that we'd have to run one, maybe two cars at a time. I don't think passing would be an option as it is at a big track.

So it would have to limit the number of drivers to way less than our target of 40-50, which would drive costs WAY up. It would be fun, though. :)

Another option would be to go ahead and attempt to run a mini "track event" with one designated passing area. (the back straight) Maybe (big huge maybe) we can look at doing something like this after we've all got some experience there. I think 20 guys who are familiar with the track could probably split into several groups and alternate 15-20 minute sessions all day long. (if a person got 15 minutes per hour... 8 hours... that's 2 hours of track time in a day... for about $100... Hmmm...)

Gotta start simple though. Very few people have even driven on this track, we've got a lot to learn about it.

I'm diggin' the level of interest I'm seeing here, and the varied ideas of things we might want to do.

[b16aRacer]

I'd definetly be interested.

I've driven in about 6 of your SPC events, 3 other autocrosses and a HPDE at Sebring, so hopefully that would be enough to qualify me to drive with you guys at this track.

[Loren]

Finally got around to pulling some pictures off of the camera. I took these while someone else was taking a lap in my car. They should help you visualize what's there.

Primus Track Pix (http://web.tampabay.rr.com/shad/Temp/PrimusPix/)

[0HP930]

Damn, I would certainly pay to attend an event there and its close.

That place is the best thing to happen to the region since the Gainesville Raceway.

[w0rd]

Looks pretty nice.
Not as big as I thought, so brake fluid shouldn't be an issue.
That's good.

What's up with the tree and the ditch in the last pic?

Other than that, looks fun.
Too bad we have to wait until March for the first event.
If you need anymore "test" runs on the track let me know.
I am available for that.

[Loren]

Originally posted by w0rd
Looks pretty nice.
Not as big as I thought, so brake fluid shouldn't be an issue.
That's good.

What's up with the tree and the ditch in the last pic?

Other than that, looks fun.
Too bad we have to wait until March for the first event.
If you need anymore "test" runs on the track let me know.
I am available for that.

The angle of the picture is probably not the best. The tree is in the middle of the hairpin at the end of the long straight. Can't imagine anyone getting over there to hit it. The area between the S and the end of the back straight is supposed to be flat and drain toward the lake. Contractor screwed that up, so it's all a swamp at present. It's on the list of things to be fixed.

Oh, wait. Just looked at the picture and I see the tree you're talking about. Didn't even notice it when I was driving. What caught my eye is that the end of the S is headed straight for the pit area. The S is a lot longer than it appears in that photo.

There are places were a person could go off-track and get into BIG trouble. That's just one of them. Remember, I said I wanted to limit the SunRiders events to experienced drivers.

To make that turn Solo II compliant might require making a 90 out of it well before the tree and pinching the course over to the right side of the pavement to maintain a legal 25' parallel distance. I'm sure it could pass safety with something like that.

I missed a couple pictures, the track is bigger than that. From picture 08, you go around a 90 into a short straight and the big sweeper, then the long back straight. I should have had 2-3 more pictures in there to cover all of that. Then there's another U-turn after the S-sequence to point you back to the east.

[0HP930]

Where are the pictures you guys are talking about, and what exactly is Pr1mus racing?

[Loren]

Originally posted by 400HP930
Where are the pictures you guys are talking about, and what exactly is Pr1mus racing?

Scroll up a few posts, I posted a link to some pictures.

Primus Racing is an outfit that builds Formula Ford race cars over in St. Pete. (they'll be moving to the trackside facility this spring)

[Loren]

Hey, guys. Got a copy of a construction print, thought you might want to see it.

http://web.tampabay.rr.com/shad/Temp/Primus.gif

[Lola56]

As a former Solo Safety Steward, I really like all the run off room this site has!!!!

Going CW, at the upper left there is only 27 feet from the edge of the track to the barbed wire fence. At the upper right, there is an existing tree at the edge of the track. The raised viewing area is at the edge of the track.

Going CCW, at the end of the straight at the bottom, the barbed wire fence is less than 30 feet from the track.

I wouldn't want to drive my car on this track at speed.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Lola56
As a former Solo Safety Steward, I really like all the run off room this site has!!!!

Sarcasm?

Going CW, at the upper left there is only 27 feet from the edge of the track to the barbed wire fence.

Yup. I believe I heard John (the track owner) state that he had clearance from the adjacent land owner to clear as much of the brush in that area as he wanted to. Improvements will be made there in time. Clearing the land and moving the fence will surely be among the improvements.

At the upper right, there is an existing tree at the edge of the track.

It's hard to read on this reduced size copy of the print, but on the original you can see that tree is marked as "To Be Removed". It was removed, it ain't there.

The raised viewing area is at the edge of the track.

After working the kart race there last weekend, I'm not really fond of the viewing area, either. There was a kart that somehow didn't brake or braked too late or something at the end of that straight (the kart course uses the straight North of the pit lane and only runs the North half of the track), sort of made the turn, but ended up blowing through a wall of haybales and going half-way up that hill.

It wouldn't be bad running in the CW direction, though.

Going CCW, at the end of the straight at the bottom, the barbed wire fence is less than 30 feet from the track.

UuuuuHuh. That's why I kept telling people that I don't want to let inexperienced drivers on the course. It's NOT an autocross.

I wouldn't want to drive my car on this track at speed.

Define "at speed". We all drive on highways with steel and concrete guard rails 2 feet from our door "at speed" every day.

Would I be comfortable driving at 10/10 (or even 9/10) around all this track in a vehicle that I couldn't afford to walk away from? No. (just like I didn't drive that hard at GIR for similar reasons)

Would I have a shitload of fun driving around this track at speeds I'm comfortable with? Hell yeah!

Drivers who run with the SunRiders at this track will be briefed extensively on the hazards. Our "off course" policy will be strict. And we'll do what we feel we need to do to limit speeds and maybe control driving lines where we feel it is necessary.

Our plan at this point is to run Clockwise, so the biggest hazard is the NE corner that you mentioned. Having driven the course, I think the sweeper before it is even more of a concern, however. Trying to carry too much speed through it could send you off course in a hurry.

Our initial ideas (which we will test before we commit to) are to put a 7-cone 60' slalom at the beginning of the South straight to reduce entry speed into the sweeper. On the 90 following it, we're planning to put "gates" (off the edge of the pavement) marking 50, 100, 150 and 200 feet for braking reference. Strictly for a visual effect, a wall of cones on the outside of the 90 may also be used. Sort of a "this is the end of the world" marker.

I'm babbling again. Sorry.

[OversteerS2K]

I'll risk it. My deductible is only $500. Nothing on that print gives me the fear of death, so we're only talking about money and inconvenience - worst case scenario...

[PseudoRealityX]

I have no money....nor another car.

[Loren]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
I have no money....nor another car.

Shit, you spend more time driving other people's cars than your own, anyway!

[PseudoRealityX]

Originally posted by Loren
Shit, you spend more time driving other people's cars than your own, anyway!

I don't put them in the drink though;)

[Formula KZ1000]

Originally posted by PseudoRealityX
I have no money....nor another car.

Does this mean that you would not race at Primus??

I thought I heard you say you plan to do the ITMO events at the circle track I think there is a greater chance of destroying your car there, but am not sure, as I have not raced at either track.

Eddie

[PseudoRealityX]

Ocala:

Speeds in my car, on race tires never reach above 60mph. Not to mention that it's banked, so gravity is TRYING to keep you away from the wall. If you spin on a banking, you normally spin down the banking, not up. The "Fast line" is also nowhere near the wall, which helps keep idiots away from it.

[0HP930]

Hmm, it must suck to not be able to control your car well enough to trust yourself around hazzards. ;) :P

[PseudoRealityX]

But it comes to the point that I'm paying money to be able to RACE/PUSH my car to it's limits. If you never spin and you're never fighting for control of the car, you're slow and not pushing hard enough. I can easily drive around hazards here in Gainesville for free. They're called college girls....and they move in traffic randomly.

[OversteerS2K]

At least they're awake (even if not alert) at that age. Hillsborough, Pinellas, and Pasco drivers get the Q-Tip woman on 13 different scrips and in a 4500 pound car, to boot.

[PseudoRealityX]

I know...I grew up in Naples, home of old people....old rich people.

[fastforward]

Loren, I just wanted to thank you and tell you that I (we) appreciate your work and determination. Its nice to know that auto-xers like you are actively working on getting something like this going in our own backyard. It is much appreciated...this applies to everyone that is putting this together.
.....now, if you need a driver to help practice sorting out the track. You let me know. Haha! ;o)

Seriously though, I think its great....and would not mind spending $60 bucks. I think limiting novices is not a bad idea, at least initially. So that problem areas can be figured out more easily and safely.

Great job getting pics and the plans up too. Very cool. Looking forward to it!

[Loren]

Originally posted by fastforward
Loren, I just wanted to thank you and tell you that I (we) appreciate your work and determination.

Thanks, man. Organizing amateur motorsports has got to be among the most thankless jobs on the planet! The rare heartfelt thank you means a lot.

As far as Primus is concerned, if you ever meet Fritz Kloepfel (another SunRider, drives a slammed white Miata with 17's), be sure to thank him. It was his connections and efforts that got us in the door.

[fastforward]

Originally posted by Loren
Thanks, man. Organizing amateur motorsports has got to be among the most thankless jobs on the planet! The rare heartfelt thank you means a lot.

As far as Primus is concerned, if you ever meet Fritz Kloepfel (another SunRider, drives a slammed white Miata with 17's), be sure to thank him. It was his connections and efforts that got us in the door.

Be happy to thank him, the sunriders group have always been great, they helped me along way back when I was a wee lil' nubie.
Let's also not forget all those people that support and organize all the CFR, PCA, Sunriders, etc. events as well. All good groups, all have had the pleasure to race with. I have been back in the area for about 7 years. When I first moved back here, there wasn't much of a auto-x scene. I think its great now! Some weekends its hard to decide where to run. Adding Primus to the mix will be awesome and definitly make Tampa a more prominent place on the map for the now abundant throng of weekend racers.

[RoadRacer]

Loren, I am 100% behind this. I've been taking to the guy at Primus for probably a year plus about this track. I am glad that you guys are putting this together. I usually run at Sebring, but my wife and I have a baby on the way, so 20 minutes from the track is better than 2 hrs and 20 minutes. :D I would be willing to work the corners or tech at some of the events. One suggestion would be running 2 or 3 laps at a time. 1 lap doesn't allow the driver to get into a groove..... ha, maybe this is the open track side of me coming out! :D Also, you can stagger the cars. We've done that at G'ville during some private track days and it worked really well. I guess it all depends on the type of insurance they have. Anyway, I am interested! thanks, patrick

[Loren]

Originally posted by RoadRacer
Loren, I am 100% behind this. I've been taking to the guy at Primus for probably a year plus about this track. I am glad that you guys are putting this together. I usually run at Sebring, but my wife and I have a baby on the way, so 20 minutes from the track is better than 2 hrs and 20 minutes. :D I would be willing to work the corners or tech at some of the events. One suggestion would be running 2 or 3 laps at a time. 1 lap doesn't allow the driver to get into a groove..... ha, maybe this is the open track side of me coming out! :D Also, you can stagger the cars. We've done that at G'ville during some private track days and it worked really well. I guess it all depends on the type of insurance they have. Anyway, I am interested! thanks, patrick

Thanks, Pat. We figure it would be safe to have 3 cars on course (they would be 30 seconds apart). I like your ideas. Putting 3 cars out 30-seconds apart and letting them run 2-3 laps would work well. We would just have to be sure that everyone understood that there is NO passing, it's not a race, yadda yadda.

Congrats on the baby! It will change your life, but hopefully not end it. :)